Masculinity

[Stego]

Unfortunately, this is an unsafe place to discuss masculinity if your opinion isn't a derogatory one. 

 Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
    But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
    The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
    O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

[DireWolfSpirit]

11 hours ago, karaddin said:

The x and y chromosomes weren't called sex chromosomes to start with and weren't presumed to be a definitive marker of sex the way people love to treat them as gospel these days when they were first discovered. It was actually an idea that was not favored by the initial researchers, but someone else leaped to that and managed to get it to catch on despite its inaccuracy and now we have a century of inertia in public belief around them to overcome.

Regarding definite markers of sex. I'm curious how transgender studies treat the subject in general? What is the narrative for something like mtDNA: The Eve Gene?  http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/eve.html

I'm guessing that people would say it is incorrect to say the ability to pass down mtDNA is a definition for being female? Maybe it's more accurate to say only females can pass down mtDNA but not all females can pass down mtDNA? I'm interested in your viewpoint on that area as I truly am ignorant on the subject and your post(s) made me think you've likely read something related before?

 

[TerraPrime]

2 hours ago, Stego said:

Unfortunately, this is an unsafe place to discuss masculinity if your opinion isn't a derogatory one. 

 Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
    But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
    The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
    O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

Whatev.

[Sullen]

2 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Regarding definite markers of sex. I'm curious how transgender studies treat the subject in general? What is the narrative for something like mtDNA: The Eve Gene?  http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/eve.html

I'm guessing that people would say it is incorrect to say the ability to pass down mtDNA is a definition for being female? Maybe it's more accurate to say only females can pass down mtDNA but not all females can pass down mtDNA? I'm interested in your viewpoint on that area as I truly am ignorant on the subject and your post(s) made me think you've likely read something related before?

 

That would be wrong, as it excludes transmen, who can pass down mtDNA.

[The Killer Snark]

Stego - As soon as anyone from the Left starts a discussion on masculinity, you can literally count the heartbeats before someone sticks the word 'toxic in front of the term. I wonder if someone started a discussion on Radical Feminist misandry bandying the terminology of 'toxic femininity', which given how few women actually declare themselves to be feminists, would be as wildly generalising and inaccurate, how long it would be allowed to last.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Just now, The Killer Snark said:

Stego - As soon as anyone from the Left starts a discussion on masculinity, you can literally count the heartbeats before someone sticks the word 'toxic in front of the term. I wonder if someone started a discussion on Radical Feminist misandry bandying the terminology of 'toxic femininity', which given how few women actually declare themselves to be feminists, would be as wildly generalising and inaccurate, how long it would be allowed to last.

Feminists were the FIRST group of people to launch a systematic attack against the construction of femininity. 

[The Killer Snark]

Well said, Nestor. You beat me to the punch. And given that femininity is not a social construction so much as related to biological reality, that tells you everything you need to know.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Just now, The Killer Snark said:

Well said, Nestor. You beat me to the punch. And given that femininity is not a social construction so much as related to biological reality, that tells you everything you need to know.

I don't think we are on the same page on this one. 

[The Killer Snark]

Probably not.

[Kalbear]

25 minutes ago, The Killer Snark said:

Stego - As soon as anyone from the Left starts a discussion on masculinity, you can literally count the heartbeats before someone sticks the word 'toxic in front of the term. I wonder if someone started a discussion on Radical Feminist misandry bandying the terminology of 'toxic femininity', which given how few women actually declare themselves to be feminists, would be as wildly generalising and inaccurate, how long it would be allowed to last.

You're welcome to make a topic. I'm sure that its popularity will be entirely decided by self-declared feminists and will in no way reflect the value of your views.

[Red Tiger]

7 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

You're welcome to make a topic. I'm sure that its popularity will be entirely decided by self-declared feminists and will in no way reflect the value of your views.

I think the oh woes me attitude Snark is giving towards the left is sorta weak, but don't you think political correctness is being taken a little too far these days?

[Weeping Sore]

19 hours ago, Lily Valley said:

That would break my damn neck.  No THANK you.

 

Maybe a bandolier? Or a full-length coat that ripples and flaps as you walk?

[Kalbear]

8 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

I think the oh woes me attitude Snark is giving towards the left is sorta weak, but don't you think political correctness is being taken a little too far these days?

I think neither of them have anything to do with masculinity to any large degree. I also think that men getting upset by a term like toxic masculinity because they believe it means that 'men are bad' when it really means 'the way men are supposed to be hurts what men can be' is pretty weak. 

And off-topic, I believe that for the most part the large amount of critics of political correctness use it basically as a way to shut people up when they're saying that they don't like something or are, ya know, offended. I'm sure there are lots of people who are acting offended for whatever reason - but I also think largely there are a whole lot of people who like being offensive to others who are now hurt because they can't do it as well. They want to be racist, they want to be bigots, they want to be sexist asshats because that's what they think - and they are now getting angry because people are telling them that doing that is, well, kind of being a major asshat.

[Red Tiger]

7 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I think neither of them have anything to do with masculinity to any large degree. I also think that men getting upset by a term like toxic masculinity because they believe it means that 'men are bad' when it really means 'the way men are supposed to be hurts what men can be' is pretty weak. 

And off-topic, I believe that for the most part the large amount of critics of political correctness use it basically as a way to shut people up when they're saying that they don't like something or are, ya know, offended. I'm sure there are lots of people who are acting offended for whatever reason - but I also think largely there are a whole lot of people who like being offensive to others who are now hurt because they can't do it as well. They want to be racist, they want to be bigots, they want to be sexist asshats because that's what they think - and they are now getting angry because people are telling them that doing that is, well, kind of being a major asshat.

Nah, that's not the political correctness im talking about. Im talking about people who offend others, but act all sad when somebody says something back. An example, I think Ben Shapiro is an enormous douche, but threatening him with violence and then casually dismissing the fact that he was threatened with violence is not okay. Im a minority myself, but the way I see it, you cant go around saying the N word and then crying when somebody else does it.

But having a thick skin is definitely something I value, masculine or otherwise.

[Kalbear]

Quote

Nah, that's not the political correctness im talking about. Im talking about people who offend others, but act all sad when somebody says something back.

I don't think that's particularly politically correctness one way or another. That's just being a jackass. 

[Red Tiger]

Just now, Kalbear said:

I don't think that's particularly politically correctness one way or another. That's just being a jackass. 

Yeah, but I see this type of jackassness happen a lot. One person makes cracks about their own group, somebody outside of the group says the exact same thing and is called a bigot and treated like a monster. The result is that the minority group gets a rep for being thin-skinned and the bigots get more ammo.

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, Red Tiger said:

Yeah, but I see this type of jackassness happen a lot. One person makes cracks about their own group, somebody outside of the group says the exact same thing and is called a bigot and treated like a monster. The result is that the minority group gets a rep for being thin-skinned and the bigots get more ammo.

Yeah, like when people start talking about how bad macho men are, then the macho men come in and get offended and everyone thinks those macho men are assholes? Yeah, that really sucks. Hate that.

[Red Tiger]

2 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Yeah, like when people start talking about how bad macho men are, then the macho men come in and get offended and everyone thinks those macho men are assholes? Yeah, that really sucks. Hate that.

Eh, do you think I was making fun of you or trying to insult you or something?

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, Red Tiger said:

Eh, do you think I was making fun of you or trying to insult you or something?

I think that others were. I don't think you were. I think a couple of guys who didn't bother reading the last few pages or taking part in the conversation decided to generalize a whole bunch of people based on what they felt was impugning their manhood, and that seemed to be fairly amusingly ironic when talking about small groups of people getting offended about others talking about them. 

[Red Tiger]

Just now, Kalbear said:

I think that others were. I don't think you were. I think a couple of guys who didn't bother reading the last few pages or taking part in the conversation decided to generalize a whole bunch of people based on what they felt was impugning their manhood, and that seemed to be fairly amusingly ironic when talking about small groups of people getting offended about others talking about them. 

I can definitely see some truth in that..