The Commentator Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Dany has three elephants. Assuming they are the same size as real world elephants, about 6 tons, that is a lot of weight to transport to Westeros. Would you take them to Westeros? Here are your choices. We have to expect that in a very short amount of time, with many young men at Barristan's disposal, the Targaryen Military will have many warriors to call upon. The Battle of Fire is a perfect situation for producing warriors. Do you choose to carry 3 elephants or approximately 250-270 warriors to war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdallah Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Thing about Elephants, there are none in Westeros, horses would be scared and without any room elephants would have to crush spearwalls so i would go for a few elephants. Fear cuts deeper than swords. not too many elephants though. you can always steal a ship to transport the additional 250 guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Definitely 250 men. Elephants can be killed easier than 250 men and they can even go crazy and trample friendly men under stress. They are aren't all that useful in besieging or storming castles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 fAegon just arrived at Griffins Roost with 3 elephants that came from Essos. We just need to sit back and see how it all works out now on the Westerosi side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfyre Bastard Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 9 minutes ago, Stag_legion said: Definitely 250 men. Elephants can be killed easier than 250 men and they can even go crazy and trample friendly men under stress. They are aren't all that useful in besieging or storming castles. I would incline for the elephants. There's a learning curve when fighting against elephants and Westerosi leaders would be helpless when facing them. At least the first three big battles, would be victories for the team that has them. Happened to Hannibal. In fact, if logistics are not an issue, 20 elephants would be better than 1600 foot; you could crush the whole left and center before breakfast. By the time the novelty has passed, you had already won the allegiance of enough lords that you don't need the elephants anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Flies Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 A lot of Dany's success in Westeros would be dependent on making a strong initial showing when she lands, then making alliances to further her cause. The elephants will likely provide more short-term gain, so I'd go for them. Besides, if any of them do wind up dying on the field, that's money saved on meat for the dragons for a little while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonberry Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Depends on where you're going. Moving elephants can be a logistical nightmare. For example, it's a real pain to get elephants to cross deep rivers, even with rafts. You can read about Hannibal's struggle with that somewhere in Book 21 of Livy. Also, once a well-trained army becomes familiar with elephants, they learn to make holes in their ranks, and it's really no big deal. There's also the chance that they can spook and unexpectedly disrupt one's own ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 How would these elephants deal with a Westerosi winter?? I think they'd die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victarion Chainbreaker Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 For Dany's army? Drogon swooping down, incinerating everything in sight, crushing fully armored mounts and riders in his massive jaws, and creating a field of fire encircling the enemy would certainly make the opposing horses nervous. But to really scare them you'd need 3 elephants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeves Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Depends on what the elephants were trained to do. Armored elephants could do some damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 It's not as if your ships can't make two trips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPTWP Timett Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Since it's just 250 men I'd take the elephants mainly for shock value. However I think a couple of scorpions and a trebuchet or two makes short work of a elephant. Not to mention the extra food and water needed for any march where it's not readily available would be a issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 5 hours ago, Blackfyre Bastard said: I would incline for the elephants. There's a learning curve when fighting against elephants and Westerosi leaders would be helpless when facing them. At least the first three big battles, would be victories for the team that has them. Happened to Hannibal. In fact, if logistics are not an issue, 20 elephants would be better than 1600 foot; you could crush the whole left and center before breakfast. By the time the novelty has passed, you had already won the allegiance of enough lords that you don't need the elephants anymore. This is all myth. Elephants were exotic weapons, but they were never that effective on the battlefield (An army never won a battle solely because of the addition of elephants, in fact there are more examples of the army with elephants losing to the ones without one!). 250 armed soldiers vs three elephants would definitely win. Hannibal didn't use elephants in his great victories in Italy, he used them in battle of Zama, and in that battle he lost, thanks in a small part because his own elephants went crazy and trampled his own troops, but much much more so because his troops were green and roman troops were veterans and with significantly more cavalry (which make the real difference). Sure in the hands of a good commander elephants can do some damage but its not game changing. And more importantly with middle age weapons it really wouldn't be that hard to kill elephants with 250 men, elephants don't have the speed of horses, the 250 men could for the most part evade the charge of the elephant then wound or kill it quickly form the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto2 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 250 men. Elephants aren't that good. Their main use is scare the sit out of people because of their size, especially if said people never have seen an elephant before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 12 hours ago, The Mountain That Flies said: A lot of Dany's success in Westeros would be dependent on making a strong initial showing when she lands, then making alliances to further her cause. The elephants will likely provide more short-term gain, so I'd go for them. Besides, if any of them do wind up dying on the field, that's money saved on meat for the dragons for a little while. Yeah, I'm wondering whether a dragon enjoys elephant bacon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 In Tyrion II, Storm 12, the twisted little monkey demon suggested that elephants were deployed during the Valyrian-Roynish wars. Were they used by Valyrians along with their dragons or were they used only by the Roynish, or were they used by both sides, and to what effect? It will be interesting to see whether the Yunkai'i's hundred armored and towered elephants are deployed to any effect in the second Battle for Meereen. In The Queenmaker, Myrcella tells Drey that Trystane slways squares up in cyvasse with his elephants up front in the mountain passes, so she sends her dragon through to eat 'em. Some folks here believe that foreshadows a tactical event in a battle between Daenerys and Aegon. Sure enough, when Aegon plays Tyrion in Tyrion VI, Dance 22, he squares up with his dragon, elephants and heavy horse up front. After falling for Tyrion's trick, Aegon holds his dragon back and learns to keep "her" close. As suggested upthread, Jon Connington believes Westerosi warhorses will not stand against the Golden Company's two dozen elephants. Are we sure Daenerys's elephants are war elephants? Their tusks arebobbed and guilded and they have sad eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 10 hours ago, TPTWP Timett said: Since it's just 250 men I'd take the elephants mainly for shock value. However I think a couple of scorpions and a trebuchet or two makes short work of a elephant. Not to mention the extra food and water needed for any march where it's not readily available would be a issue. Maybe the scorpions, but a treb is useful in attacking a castle, not a moving target. A stationary elephant isn't much of a threat, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigUpHerBones Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 the elephants will work out real well in the snow and ice... nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CryptofCthulhu Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Scipio Africanus rendered Hannibal's elephants almost useless when he defeated him on his own turf at the Battle of Zama and ended the second Punic War. One of the greatest military minds ever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Zama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Aunt Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 17 hours ago, Tonberry said: Depends on where you're going. Moving elephants can be a logistical nightmare. For example, it's a real pain to get elephants to cross deep rivers, even with rafts. You don't need rafts to cross a river with a well trained elephant. https://www.google.de/search?q=swimming+elephant&biw=1600&bih=803&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidyNf3pbnKAhXE7BQKHShFBrAQsAQILA Even today there are indian working elephants who swim from one island to an other island through the ocean on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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