SeanF Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 The best thing the British Empire ever did was not get conquered by the Nazis. If that had happened, we'd all likely be living in a different world today. But mostly everything else we did was pretty horrible. Finally! some one takes the blame for Canada. The source of all the world's ills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog-days Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I was at school in the late nineties and early noughties. GCSE history was the causes of the First World War, Weimar Republic, Nazi Germany + coursework on Vietnam. A-Levels were the Weimar Republic (sigh), Nazi Germany (sigh), the USA in the 1930s, trends in Russian history from 1854-1954 and coursework on the causes of WW2 (sigh). I think that the slave trade + abolition may have been covered in the third year (that's the final year before the GCSE syllabus started). I missed it because I had a bad cold. Clearly, it wasn't covered in much detail. The British Empire/colonialism were almost never mentioned, except tangentially in relation to the causes of WW1. My attitude towards the British Empire was mostly seeded by my lefty teacher father, Scottish nationalist folk music, and early exposure to The Raj Quartet/The Jewel in the Crown. One of the younger teachers at my conservative private school once tried to prod her class into comparing German imperial ambitions with the British imperial reality and asking about their (il)legitimacy, but didn't make much headway. We didn't know enough to agree or argue. I've no idea what's on the syllabus now, after Michael Gove got his hands on it. In my nightmares, it's all Rudyard Kipling wrapped up with a list of Significant Dates. I doubt the Empire and its causes and consequences have been given greater prominence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 On 1/20/2016 at 11:52 AM, lessthanluke said: I was never taught anything about British colonial history in school for what it's worth. I'd wager a decent chunk of the population doesn't really know a lot about it. Yep. Exactly. We learned about Tudors and the World Wars and that's basically all I remember. I was always way more interested in Ancient History to be honest. But we never really learned much about British colonial history, I mean; I remember learning a little bit in A-level History but then again not much and not in School. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 One of my alltime favorite History class scenes lol - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 On 22 January 2016 at 8:33 PM, arya_underfoot said: Thank you. This encapsulates succinctly the reason why we should discuss colonialism. Many people of British heritage (including Australians etc) get offended when unpleasant facts about colonialism or their so-called heroes get pointed out to them. Of course, they first deny and accuse you of lying. But eventually, they gloss over these facts and explain how the victims of colonisation should be grateful because of railways and parliamentary democracy and all the other wonderful gifts that the British Empire bestowed. Obviously, Western education teaches people more about the "bringing civilisation to the savages" aspect of colonialism rather than the uncomfortable stuff In the UK at least it seems less a case of being taught we brought civilisation to the savages, and more a case of not being taught anything about it at all. Which is still problematic of course, not denying that at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 My memories of History at school was doing Ancient/Roman history The dark ages happened England versus France Battle of Hastings England versus France War of the Roses England versus France (spills over elsewhere, mostly America) Entente Cordiale! Hitler and Stalin weren't very nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 New Zealand Highschool History: - The Treaty of Waitangi - New Zealand Foreign Policy, 1945-1985. - The Causes of World War I/II - Stalin's Russia. - China 1912-1949 - Irish Independence - Israel/Palestine Later on, you got a choice of doing Tudor-Stuart England or 19th Century New Zealand, for a full year. Funny thing is that most of our uglier bits of history can be handwaved as "oh, that was really Britain, not us." Stuff that really was us (c.f. our brutal colonial rule of Western Samoa) gets brushed under the carpet. And then there's 1981. Which isn't taught directly, even if it really should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Thursday Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I went to an International School and did the IB's history curriculum. There was actually quite a big focus on colonialism and its impact, but despite that it still didn't really get into the details of what happened. There was some attempt to explain that the colonisers did not treat the natives very well, but they very rarely went into details. I think part of that was that there is so much to talk about that they never focused too closely on any one topic (although I do remember a bit about the opium wars where the Western powers behaved pretty despicably), but the net effect was that I ended up with a slightly more rose-tinted view than I perhaps could have. ST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 History taught in Indian schools is pretty thorough. Maybe a little light on the Mongols, but that is a criticism no one is exempt from. I'd say we had British colonialism and imperialism well covered for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 My GCSE history course was largely made up of a topic called "the End of the British Empire", covering the independence movements of India and Kenya so it seems the curriculum has improved in that regard. I don't really find it surprising that many British people are proud of Britain's imperial past, in fact I'm surprised it's not more. People from countries that were the most powerful or amongst the most powerful in the past do tend to be fairly proud of that history, even if it isn't pleasant. Personally I try not to have too much of an opinion on history, the past has already happened and has led to the world we have today, which is by no means brilliant, but it's a lot better than it has been for basically all of history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 On January 25, 2016 at 5:15 PM, Ser Arthur Hightower said: My GCSE history course was largely made up of a topic called "the End of the British Empire", covering the independence movements of India and Kenya so it seems the curriculum has improved in that regard. I don't really find it surprising that many British people are proud of Britain's imperial past, in fact I'm surprised it's not more. People from countries that were the most powerful or amongst the most powerful in the past do tend to be fairly proud of that history, even if it isn't pleasant. Personally I try not to have too much of an opinion on history, the past has already happened and has led to the world we have today, which is by no means brilliant, but it's a lot better than it has been for basically all of history. More people were killed in wars during the 20th century than in any prior 6 or 7 centuries combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I sort of feel bad because I DO think of History a lot but it's all ancient history which I studied. I am happy to be British but have never been proud of British colonialism. I am much more proud of Welsh and Cornish history and culture individually...I mean my ancestors likely had absolutely no part in any of it except(colonising other countries) for maybe being soldiers in the past as mostly they are welsh and cornish working class who would have been working down mines ha. People forget England hasn't been too great to Wales as well (except the Welsh, they never forget :P) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Sorry to burst this bubble but it was a Welshman, (and sorcerer, natch) John Dee, who first put the words 'British Empire' to the page in the process of establishing kinda-sorta-Welshwoman Betsy Tudor's claim to the lands of New World, which according to him was rock solid on account of her being of the blood of one Arthur Pendragon who totally, definitely ruled lands to the west of Ireland in 500 AD days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 14 minutes ago, Theda Baratheon said: I sort of feel bad because I DO think of History a lot but it's all ancient history which I studied. I am happy to be British but have never been proud of British colonialism. I am much more proud of Welsh and Cornish history and culture individually...I mean my ancestors likely had absolutely no part in any of it except(colonising other countries) for maybe being soldiers in the past as mostly they are welsh and cornish working class who would have been working down mines ha. People forget England hasn't been too great to Wales as well (except the Welsh, they never forget :P) Well, I suppose the English dispossessed the Welsh of much of what's now England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 There is no bubble to burst I don't know nearly enough about british history as i should and know quite a fair amount about ancient greece and ancient rome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 1 hour ago, SeanF said: Well, I suppose the English dispossessed the Welsh of much of what's now England. Surely you cant dispossess someone of a fictional/mythical land? Sorry Theda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 2 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said: There is no bubble to burst I don't know nearly enough about british history as i should and know quite a fair amount about ancient greece and ancient rome 44 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said: Surely you cant dispossess someone of a fictional/mythical land? Sorry Theda British history from c.420 AD to 600 AD is almost a blank canvass, apart from Gildas, who's unreliable, and a few genealogies. Almost everything that's written about the period comes from later centuries. One has a pretty good idea of what was happening in France or Italy during that period, but little idea about Britain - which is probably testimony to how dreadful the period was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liffguard Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 My GCSE history course was largely made up of a topic called "the End of the British Empire", covering the independence movements of India and Kenya so it seems the curriculum has improved in that regard. I don't really find it surprising that many British people are proud of Britain's imperial past, in fact I'm surprised it's not more. People from countries that were the most powerful or amongst the most powerful in the past do tend to be fairly proud of that history, even if it isn't pleasant. Personally I try not to have too much of an opinion on history, the past has already happened and has led to the world we have today, which is by no means brilliant, but it's a lot better than it has been for basically all of history. More people were killed in wars during the 20th century than in any prior 6 or 7 centuries combined. Less people were killed by violence of all kinds in the twentieth century, as a proportion of the total population, than in any century up to that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 5 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said: Surely you cant dispossess someone of a fictional/mythical land? Sorry Theda They have amazing grape juice though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog-days Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 20 hours ago, James Arryn said: More people were killed in wars during the 20th century than in any prior 6 or 7 centuries combined. OTOH, there are far more people around to be killed these days because of technological/societal progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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