Werthead

Richard Morgan + Netflix = ALTERED CARBON TV series

111 posts in this topic

10 hours ago, Werthead said:

Now trying to work out if I should reread the book before the show airs. I read it about twelve years ago and seem to have forgotten most of it. OTOH, if it's not the most faithful adaptation that could be beneficial.

I remember reading it and thinking that it was a very cinematic book that would translate very well onto the big screen. It's almost as if it were written to be a movie. 

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11 minutes ago, Relic said:

I remember reading it and thinking that it was a very cinematic book that would translate very well onto the big screen. It's almost as if it were written to be a movie. 

We had dinner with him, John Clute, and a few others in Spain a couple of years ago, and I distinctly recall Morgan talking about this precisely (I think the context was part of a wider discussion of cinema) , that he fully visualizes these scenes like they're a film in his head, and beyond that he's very sense-driven in general; he wants to engage the senses, wants readers to smell the lingering traces of high explosives, hear the sound of bullets puncturing flesh, taste the metallic flavor in the back of your throat as a character's adrenlaine ramps up, etc.

I think he's definitely one of the most cinematic -- and skillfully cinematic -- writers I've read in the genre. He has a real flair for it all. I think someone on Reddit described the recent trailer as "John Woo directs Jason Bourne on the Bladerunner 2049 set" and it made me think, well, yeah.

(As far as cinematic influences go, I can report with sadness that he's not a fan of Kurosawa -- Clute and I were both flabbergasted -- but he does have the very good taste to appreciate Takeshi Kitano's films such as Hana-Bi.)

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8 hours ago, Ran said:

I think he's definitely one of the most cinematic -- and skillfully cinematic -- writers I've read in the genre. He has a real flair for it all.

I seem to remember him saying that Market Forces was originally written as a screenplay before being converted into a novel.

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1 hour ago, Hello World said:

She makes really valid arguments for its exclusion from a simple storytelling angle to it coming off as exploitative. It really will make the scene of fury following it work better on screen.

1 hour ago, Astromech said:

Hmm, not the scene I thought it would be.

that's the one that popped into my mind. The only other one I can think of was the insinuation of something very sinister having happened off the page

the scene where there was a haunted looking dog/cat and the feeling there was a human mind in it

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Very interesting and thoughtful response. It's a complicated issuue. That said, I'm not sure I agree entirely with it. Cartesian mind-body dualism is such a central aspect of these books that the obvious solution -- the only correct solution, really! -- in my mind is that the viewer sees Kinnaman... and then when Kinnaman looks down at himself, or in a mirror, we realize that he is in a female body. We might glimpse some initial torture through Kovacs's eyes, but then you can just shift to our focus on Kinnaman and understand that the point of torture is to visit pain and fear on the mind; the body is merely a point of access.

The Quantum Leap solution, in other words. Kovacs looking like Kinnaman and not the actor playing "birth" Kovacs could be explained as Kovacs having already adapted his image of himself to his current body, the flexibility of his Envoy training (assuming that aspect of the Envoys -- elite training of various kinds -- is still part of the show). (This also makes me suspect that the climax will feature Kinnaman, not Kovacs in his Khumalo combat sleeve.)

 

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4 hours ago, Ran said:

Very interesting and thoughtful response. It's a complicated issuue. That said, I'm not sure I agree entirely with it. Cartesian mind-body dualism is such a central aspect of these books that the obvious solution -- the only correct solution, really! -- in my mind is that the viewer sees Kinnaman... and then when Kinnaman looks down at himself, or in a mirror, we realize that he is in a female body. We might glimpse some initial torture through Kovacs's eyes, but then you can just shift to our focus on Kinnaman and understand that the point of torture is to visit pain and fear on the mind; the body is merely a point of access.

The Quantum Leap solution, in other words. Kovacs looking like Kinnaman and not the actor playing "birth" Kovacs could be explained as Kovacs having already adapted his image of himself to his current body, the flexibility of his Envoy training (assuming that aspect of the Envoys -- elite training of various kinds -- is still part of the show). (This also makes me suspect that the climax will feature Kinnaman, not Kovacs in his Khumalo combat sleeve.)

 

I'm still curious about the interview in Brazil where the actor playing "original" (although I think even that body was a sleeve?) Kovacs got a fair amount of prominence. If he gets a decent amount of screentime in the flashback scenes (which again from the Brazil interview seemed to be a decent portion of the show) then the viewer should hopefully get used to the idea that Kovacs isn't just kinnaman. By the end of the season (assuming it's doing a season = the book) this should mean the viewer may be used to the concept by the time the khumalo combat sleeve appears. Whereas the torture scene maybe occurs too soon in the show for them to be confident it would work? Another issue is that "Kovacs" will be essentially immobilised while tortured making it tricky to get his body language way of speaking over to the viewer. One of the really cool things in the show could be being able to recognise "Kovacs" just by the way he walks into a room.

I've been thinking more about Dichen Lachmann's role. Given she was in dollhouse which actually has a lot of crossover with Altered carbon but the inverse in that we followed the sleeve and not the personality from one episode to the next. Now given most of the dolls in that show did a great job at becoming someone different I'm wondering whether Lachmann's role involves her being more than one person? It would put her acting skills to good use and maybe Reileen's mind is put in prison while her body is used by someone else - it'd give us an insight into people seeing other people's bodies used, Now it doesn't really gel with the character from the book but it seems the show won't be a slave to the book anyhow. Just some random speculation.

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On 1/17/2018 at 4:20 PM, Hello World said:

I totally get this... and to be honest, the thing she intends to change is not something that the story is dependent on... so I'm cool with that change...

Went to the movies today, and they played a commercial for this before the trailers... I didn;t know that James Purefoy is playing Laurens Bancroft...which is cool.

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On 1/17/2018 at 9:20 PM, Hello World said:

This all makes perfect sense. It was highly likely to be perceived as torture porn otherwise and I, for one, am absolutely sick to death of that. 

I think I'm going to need to do a speed read of the book before I watch though as I can't recall the entire story in detail this many years after reading it. 

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I'm not sure I agree with those arguments.  She's basically saying "my writers aren't good enough to convey the nuances of the scene."  They could've at least had a crack at it and seen if it wasn't possible (Ran's solution seems perfectly plasusible for a start).  She's right that it's her choice though and it does make sense as a business decision.

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