Mark Antony Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Liverpool haven't looked so good but Firmino has been impressive again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 2 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said: Firmino is still shite. Are you watching the game? He's kicked it into the first-person-in-front-of-him's legs about fifty fucking times today! Erm he's been the only threat for us at all. Typical choke. Mignolet is just terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I hate this season. We can't even hold onto the lead against Sunderland. Firmino is about to be the last person I would criticize right now. He did his job even tho he can be frustrating at times. Mignolet egh just one step forward and two steps back for him, but then who to sign in the summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 5 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said: Yeah, he's been our only threat, but that doesn't mean he's been good; it just means we've been rubbish. I think he's done well without much support. Obviously I agree Liverpool were terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorshach Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I learned two things today: 1: Stoke City, atm, are a pub level team. Comfortably the worst opponent we've had, and that includes our forays into the League and FA Cups. 2: Jack Butland is really, really good. If he'd been, say, Tim Howard-level, we would have scored six or seven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 Liverpool really shit the bed today. They had the ball all day and took a comfortable 2-0 lead and then snatched a draw from the jaws of victory. Firmino once again looked like the closest we've come to replacing Suarez (remember his first season?) but poor movement by the rest of our attackers means that a lot of Firmino's good work has nothing to connect with. If Coutinho and Sturridge return then he'll have much better help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 the bookies have finally woken up. leicester are now the favourites for the title. we really needed that win today, and a clean sheet was a big bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mme Erzulie Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 4 hours ago, Soylent Brown said: Yeah, he's been our only threat, but that doesn't mean he's been good; it just means we've been rubbish. You have the weirdest scapegoats. Firmino has scored 6 goals and had 5 assists from 16 league starts. He has been voted MotM in 5 of those. He is pretty much the only player playing to an acceptable standard this season. He's not perfect, but he's a damn sight better than everyone else around him. He took his goal really well and made the second goal singlehandedly. Here's a fun stat for you: out of the 27 games we've conceded goals in this season (all comps), we've conceded the first shot on target in 21 OF THEM. It's fucking insane. In 21 out of 27 games in which we've conceded goals, we've conceded a goal from the first shot on target. These numbers are fucking indefensible for a GK, but somehow, Mignolet is awarded with a long term contract. Sheer, utter madness. Mignolet is the obvious problem. It's hard to really assess any CB partnership when no one clearly has any sort of confidence or trust in their 'keeper. CB partnerships also typically take a while to really settle, and with all the injuries our defenders have been plagued with this season, no one has had much of a chance to develop any understanding. The wide backs are hard to gauge: Clyne seems dependable, if unexciting, while Moreno has running, effort and guts in spades, but is prone to infuriating positioning, wild tackles and head-scratching decisions at the back. But at least both of them are pacy and work hard. I think they can both do a job for a Klopp team. In midfield, it feels like we have a lot of journeymen, but few true stars. Henderson, Milner, Lucas, Can, Lallana, Allen and Ibe are all mediocre. Henderson might just need time to return to his pre-injury levels, and Can might have a lot of potential, but it feels like these are players who need true talent around them. They can do a job as team players, but they're not game changers. Coutinho is a potential star, but needs to show consistency (and stay fit). Who knows how we would have looked this season if Sturridge and/or Origi had stayed fit. Firmino is trying his best at the moment, but you do feel he would be able to offer so much more if he wasn't the sole focal point of our attack. If he was playing off the shoulder of Sturridge or Origi, you suspect he would get more of both goals and assists. Benteke remains a wildcard at this point. He's clearly not impressing Klopp enough to warrant a place in the starting eleven, but I think he could score a lot of goals in a team that was built around him and playing to his strengths. Will that ever happen in Liverpool under Klopp? Doubtful, but not unimaginable. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if this team had one or two top class players, they could suddenly look like title contenders. If you take Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling out of our 13/14 team, I'm not sure the remaining players look that much better than today's squad. The problem is that we haven't (even halfway) successfully replaced Suarez and Sturridge has been injured more than ever. Klopp does have a sizeable task ahead of him, but if he can unearth the next Vardy, Mahrez or Kante (and history suggests he could), that could go a long way towards solving our problems. Judging him by this season's performances is unwise and premature. Also hope he recovers quickly and fully from his appendectomy today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Milner is basically one of those players Klopp needs/loves. Covers lots of miles, does not shy away from fights for possession, which basically buys the defense time to get back into formation, and he can contribute offensively when needed. Liverpools entire defense needs a make over, though. He needs fullbacks who contribute more offensively, centrebacks who are all around better. Sakho was plain bad at the second goal Liverpool conceded. And neither him nor Lovren do look like they can play an opening pass. For Klopp it makes in a way sense to hold on to Mignolet from that perspective. If Klopp is to rebuild the defense from scratch he at least wants to keeper as a last known variable. It will be hard enough to play with a complete new defensive formation, without adding a new goalkeeper. He can send off Mignolet in two years if his performances do not stabilize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorshach Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Mignolet isn't the answer, that much is clear. But Klopp did have Weidenfeller before, and while he did become dependable, he was never a very good keeper. Perhaps Klopp doesn't put too much emphasis on the GK position? Meh. Speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mme Erzulie Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Notone: I'm not trying to say Sakho doesn't make mistakes (he does, and sometimes costly ones), but his overall play is so much better than people seem to realise. He was the second best passer on the pitch today (83/91), had 4 more ball recoveries than anyone else at 13 and won 3 out of 4 defensive aerial duels, more than anyone else. He's also consistently trying to play the ball forward and start attacks. Maybe he could have done better with Defoe's goal, but I'm not sure I see how. Defoe is one of PL's all time top scorers for a reason. Sakho's been our best defender this season. Not the highest of bars, but it seems like people exaggerate his shortcomings while refusing to even acknowledge his (considerable and impressive) strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 14 minutes ago, Notone said: For Klopp it makes in a way sense to hold on to Mignolet from that perspective. If Klopp is to rebuild the defense from scratch he at least wants to keeper as a last known variable. That only makes sense if the known variable isn't that the keeper will drop at least one massive clanger in every game. But it is. They need a new keeper. The absolute priority though has to be getting midfield and forward players who can execute Klopp's gameplan though, and I have to say I find it strange that, even in the climate of waiting for the summer money, and presuming that Klopp would like to see how Sturridge and Ings can do before he really commits to spending, there wasn't any move made at all to bring someone in. The reason Firmino's doing well (after what I think I'm on record as thinking was a pretty shite first several months) is because he clearly understands what Klopp's after with the high-press and calculated risks. Everyone else is either not really that sort (I'm looking at Coutinho most obviously here) or is unreliable with form. It seems like this season's basically been written off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 14 minutes ago, Notone said: For Klopp it makes in a way sense to hold on to Mignolet from that perspective. If Klopp is to rebuild the defense from scratch he at least wants to keeper as a last known variable. That only makes sense if the known variable isn't that the keeper will drop at least one massive clanger in every game. But it is. They need a new keeper. The absolute priority though has to be getting midfield and forward players who can execute Klopp's gameplan though, and I have to say I find it strange that, even in the climate of waiting for the summer money, and presuming that Klopp would like to see how Sturridge and Ings can do before he really commits to spending, there wasn't any move made at all to bring someone in. The reason Firmino's doing well (after what I think I'm on record as thinking was a pretty shite first several months) is because he clearly understands what Klopp's after with the high-press and calculated risks. Everyone else is either not really that sort (I'm looking at Coutinho most obviously here) or is unreliable with form. It seems like this season's basically been written off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 55 minutes ago, Mme Erzulie said: You have the weirdest scapegoats. Firmino has scored 6 goals and had 5 assists from 16 league starts. He has been voted MotM in 5 of those. He is pretty much the only player playing to an acceptable standard this season. He's not perfect, but he's a damn sight better than everyone else around him. He took his goal really well and made the second goal singlehandedly. Here's a fun stat for you: out of the 27 games we've conceded goals in this season (all comps), we've conceded the first shot on target in 21 OF THEM. It's fucking insane. In 21 out of 27 games in which we've conceded goals, we've conceded a goal from the first shot on target. These numbers are fucking indefensible for a GK, but somehow, Mignolet is awarded with a long term contract. Sheer, utter madness. Mignolet is the obvious problem. It's hard to really assess any CB partnership when no one clearly has any sort of confidence or trust in their 'keeper. CB partnerships also typically take a while to really settle, and with all the injuries our defenders have been plagued with this season, no one has had much of a chance to develop any understanding. Agreed 100%. Hopefully Klopps faith in Mignolet is just words cause we desperately need a new keeper. Still maintain Bogdan might be the worst signing in a handful of questionable signings from Rodgers time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Weidenfeller is a bit underappreciated imo. He has been very good/reliable goalkeeper, but he did not get the recognition in form of international caps, because he is German. And Germany traditionally has very deep goalkeeping pool. At the beginning of his career there were Kahn and Lehmann around. After they retired there was a lively competition going on, from which Neuer emerged as victor. And Neuer was a bit fortunate. Before the South African World Cup, Robert Enke was supposed to be their starting goalkeeper. But he commited suicide. Second in line was Rene Adler, but he sustained his first major injury before the World Cup. So goalkeeper number three Neuer got the chance to start. As they say, the rest is history. During Adler's injury he lost his starting job at the club (Leverkusen) to Leno, partly due to his inconsistent form and partly due to injury. Leno and ter Stegen are the two goalies who want to suceed Neuer at some point. The Weidenfeller of their generation is probably Kevin Trapp, and he is playing for Paris. So he can't be that bad either. And that's not taking Timo Horn into consideration. Anyway, my point was, that Weidenfeller had the problem that basically generational goalkeepers stood in his way to get the recognition he deserved. Next to the ones of Kahn and Neuer most goalkeepers do not look that impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 I'm hoping Mignolet's new contract was to preserve his resale value this summer, otherwise he would only have had a year remaining on his old contract. I agree with Erzulie's assessment, although it's a bit generous to Milner, whose only positive contribution all season has been a few good crosses from wide positions. This squad is limited but it also has most of the basic pieces in place - if they can stay fit - and just needs a couple of significant upgrades in midfield and attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorshach Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I don't want this to become a discussion on Weidenfeller per se. Still, I don't rate him as a top keeper. Sure. Neuer is world class. So was Kahn, around the change of the millenium, or Lehman a couple of years. But Kahn dropped off, and wasn't really all that good in 2002 (a good keeper would have saved at least one of the Brazilian goals in the final), and Lehman was erratic. Could be brilliant, could be dross. Weidenfeller, like Adler, Enke etc, was a solid keeper. Didn't make too many mistakes, but didn't really win games for his team either. That, in my view, made him reliable. And if your choice is Mignolet or someone reliable, I'd go for reliable. The downside with such a keeper is that they don't give you extra points. de Gea, Cortois, Lloris, Cech, Butland - these guys will get you extra points in the course of a season. Weidenfeller would be in a group below, keepers who don't lose points. Below that again, you find Mignolet, Howard (this and last season), Gomes - keepers who can play very well indeed in single matches, but overall will cost you points. We'll leave the Rudds out of this - as should Norwich. Anyway, point being that if (major if) Mignolet could raise his game (drop his clangers), he'd be as good a keeper as Weidenfeller was, because Weidenfeller was solid, but not spectacular. Mignolet has a higher ceiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I saw Liverpool match yesterday and to say I was not pleased would be an epic understatement. Losing 2-goal advantage in the last 10 minutes of the match against second-worst team in the league, AT HOME! It's just unacceptable. I know Klopp has inherited this squad and all its problems, but he had one transfer window to do something. In stead, he signed Grujic who's back at Crvena Zvezda on loan until end of the season and that's it. Sure, a lot of players are suffering from injuries but quite a few of those are due to not rotating the squad properly during the festive period. Ings, Sturridge, Origi out with injuries left Klopp with Benteke as the only striker, which he's not even using. Also, I have no idea how many more chances will Moreno get. He's been great at times but is now the kind of player I thought I saw the last of in Liverpool when Johnson left - shaky in defense, too focused on offense where he does nothing noteworthy 99,999% of the time and uses 0.001% when he actually does something right as an excuse to keep at it again. The whole defense was an absolute crap, Mignolet included of course. I mean, when Lovren is your first choice as central defender you don't have the luxury of not even trying to improve your squad in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Bollocks. It's Flamini and Ramsey. Again. ETA: Elneny doesn't even make the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melphis Amekia Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 10 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Bollocks. It's Flamini and Ramsey. Again. Just what I wanted to say. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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