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Do you think Arya Stark is turning evil? Why or why not?


Sansa Stark

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I am just interested in seeing in what guys have to say. I'm a bit conflicted. She has been one of my favorite characters from season 1 but now she's changed. I get that she lost her family well most of it. At first in season 2 I was afraid she forgot that Sansa was trapped in Kings Landing but was happy when she told Jaquen she had to find Sansa too. But when she left the hound to die it pissed me off. I get it that he killed the butchers boy but it was on Joffrey's orders and he helped her get revenge on many people, took care of her even when her Aunt Lysa died and had no where else to ransom her to. When she killed those men at that tavern with the hound it also scared me a bit, I know those people wronged her, but the fact that she smiles after she kills the guy seems to me that is not okay. She enjoys it. Ned did it for justice and he didn't like it. But she's different. Thoughts?

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You're supposed to be conflicted, that's part of what makes her exploits interesting, but she is a product of her journey and her horrific experiences.

As to the question of "evil", that is a debatable concept in itself.

The point about her enjoyment in revenge killings and the difference with Ned does bring up an interesting question in my mind. Ned took the boys along to witness executions and teach them about his sense of justice but never the girls. My question is, would Arya be acting differently had Ned given those same lessons to her? I may have to call it a rhetorical question because we cannot know for sure but it is the kind of philosophical question that makes you wonder.

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I don't think "evil" is the right term for Arya's mental state.

Its more like she's becoming the embodiment of Vengeance. She's NOT killing innocent people, she's killing people who have specifically engaged in acts she judges to be evil. In mindset, think more "The Punisher" or "Batman" without the code against killing (because there IS no other justice system available to stop those she pursues).

Frankly, I think that the "Faceless Man" training (which amounts to becoming an assassin for hire) won't stick, but that Arya will take what she's learned and become something more akin to the Erinyes/Furies... a spirit of vengeance/boogy-man story told to enforce why you don't commit certain acts lest the Faceless Girl come to claim you.

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She has only one little part of who she was inthe beggining. Killing Mycah didnt change her, she just angry at certain people, Jory too. Logically, death of her father, imprisonment of her sister and the fact that she had to be a boy started to impact her, Lommys death made an impact because he was killed in front of her with her sword. Further she went to Harennhall where she saw many disturbing things that would make everyone dicferent. Than she got play a god and got some of her back but that was quickly gone and she got back to being lost. When Brotherhood got her she saw them letting one of worst man in 7K go (think about this from angle of 10 yo) and she escaped them when she lost all of her friends and everything that connected her to what she was once. Than that horrible man abducted her and she was in by far worst part of Westeros where she could see horrible things, she saw men killed, villages burnt,... and she was so angry at people who did it, time spent with Hound made her tolerant to monstrous things and thanks to that she got tough very much which I think is a good thing. At some point she saw her mother and brother killed and saw Grey Winds head on Robbs body, imagine that horror in girls eyes. She probably heard Bran and Rickon are dead, so she now has only Sansa as a hostage at KL and aunt Lysa (anyone could guess that Blackfish and Edmure are dead too). Hound takes her there and she found out she is dead, too. She now has only Jon left, but she cant reach him. After that Hounds has become so much fond of Arya that he really starts taking care of her and nearly dies trying to protect her. Now we come to my conclusion, he was on her list but his actions made her doubt that so she wanted to leave his destiny to gods. She didnt kill him because a part of her wanted him to live. In Braavos she saw Meryn who was on her list, saw he was and agressive pedophile so that kill was justified and she may enjoyed it, but he enjoyed beating little girls. In s6 I believe she will slay Walder Frey, now if that happens tell me, would you enjoy getting revenge by sticking a sword that your brother gave to throat of Walder Frey for your mother and brother, the only thing left of your family and previous life?

She is not evil, she just wants justice for people she loved.

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3 hours ago, Myself656 said:

Its more like she's becoming the embodiment of Vengeance. She's NOT killing innocent people, she's killing people who have specifically engaged in acts she judges to be evil. In mindset, think more "The Punisher" or "Batman" without the code against killing (because there IS no other justice system available to stop those she pursues).

Even better, think of Arya as a Fury out of Greek Mythology. And then remember what happened to the Furies in Aeschylus' The Oresteia. (They became the Eumenides, the Kindly Ones, the embodiment of Justice in Athens.)

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Sort of, yes.  She's not just dealing out justice and vengeance; she's actively enjoying her killing.  You can see her little smirks and smiles in a few pre and post-killing scenes. 

Plus her killing of Meryn Trant was over-the-top and almost ritualistic.  Something is wrong with this girl.  She is going down a disturbing path.

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There is still the final act to come. As one of the main characters, Arya has to evolve from what she was in the first and second acts.

Because she went darkish fairly early, it is possible she will come out the other side lighter. Changed irrevocably of course, but then everyone will be.

 

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20 minutes ago, Zombies That Were Promised said:

What if at the end of ADOS Arya doesn't die, but she becomes more ladylike like Sansa?  Just like Sansa outgrew her fairy tales of princes, Arya outgrows her tales of steel...

I dunno lol.

I see what you're trying to say though I don't fully agree with it. "Two sides of the same coin", eh?

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She has not killed anyone innocent, just for the fun of it. She is doing justice by herself. Because she believes no one else will do it. Until now, I don't disagree with her decisions. Maybe she will become excessively harsh, misguided. But even so, it would be something different of "evil".

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In the books, the killing of the insurance man was questionable, was he a bad guy, sure, but there are lots of bad people in the world, you can't just go around killing them. There was nothing personal there, no avenging going on there. I'm an Arya fan, but I think that was meant to show, this isn't the place for her, that's not her style, and I don't think she's cut out to be an assassin, nor is she going to be one.

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I think sometimes in this story you have to imagine yourself in a land where people are habitually robbed of true justice because in GRRM's world there is no such thing as a fair justice system.

Arya is meting out her sense of justice in a land where justice is unfair but it is obviously a dangerous path to travel psychologically, especially as an adolescent. Therein lies the source of being conflicted as readers/viewers.

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3 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

In the books, the killing of the insurance man was questionable, was he a bad guy, sure, but there are lots of bad people in the world, you can't just go around killing them. There was nothing personal there, no avenging going on there. I'm an Arya fan, but I think that was meant to show, this isn't the place for her, that's not her style, and I don't think she's cut out to be an assassin, nor is she going to be one.

In this case it was something different, not personal. It was her job, what her boss told her to do. Not her decision. Like you, I don't like that much. But it was necessary, a point of passage. That or renounce to her vengeance. You don't go with the Faceless men otherwise.

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Imho, I believe the Faceless Men saved her from turning Evil, cut her off before she got there, and before she went she was close to a bad path to insanity or evil. You couldn't blame her after all she has seen. 

Yes, the Faceless Men do show her new and improved ways to kill, and ways to get it done without being caught. Sounds pretty cool, sounds like a place that anyone that wants to be a bad a** would want to go. Sounds like a place that might be a killers dream, but not really.

It is shown more in the book, but they give her this info in more of a "formal training" then she has had, except for Syrio,( who was showing her more "the sword play dance" then to kill.) Decent formal training of any thing that might be remotely dangerous usually gives the trainee respect for what they are doing,  the end result, the procedures to use, and the results when you do and don't follow the procedures. Usually not following the procedures/rules can lead to bad things, as anyone that had to watch a film in Drivers ed should have learned...

The Faceless Men taught Arya to kill, but she was taught to kill people that were dying, suffering from disease, and  people that were seriously harming others. They did not teach her to go on a wild rampage just because she felt like it.  Arya had to clean up after death, clean the floors, wash the bodies, to do the ugly necessities of death. She gave the gift and watched an innocent suffering person die practically in her arms  This is much different then her previous recent experiences of sticking someone with the pointy end and running away without seeing this side of it. 

  She might have become more cold hearted, but the Faceless Men weren't the ones to do that to her, that has been pounded out of her since she left Winterfell. The Faceless Men may have retaught and reminded her that death has it's place and should be respected. 

 

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