Survivor: Kaôh Regōng Trail

[Howdyphillip]

4 hours ago, brAnthelAstgreenseer said:

Is Mark the same chicken whom Caleb saved in episode 1?

Funny you should mention that because I just did a rewatch, and I paused it during that scene to check. I do believe that it is the same chicken.

[Scrambled Aegon]

Rewatched the last two episodes and I can't count Cydney out entirely, she is getting a good edit - but I just don't see why they'd give so much good stuff to someone like Michele if she doesn't win.

 

But now the finale is starting. Should be a great night no matter what. Great F4, great cast, great season.

[Gertrude]

Wow, I was completely wrong. How underwhelming. I am going to be very interested in why people voted the way they did because I think Aubry played a much better game from what we were shown. I'm really not happy about that outcome at all and I think the editors told a horrible story with it.

eta: second round of reactions.

I'm still completely underwhelmed. I am not dissing Michelle's strategy because it worked for her. I am upset with the editing of this season because Michelle had no story that I could see. Aubrey and Tai and Cyd had stories and aside from the blood on their hands, their stories weren't really 'how they lost'. Yes, Aegon was pointing out red flags for each, but they were not flagrant. Russell Hantz's story is all about why he lost, and that was not the story they told about Aubrey and Tai.

I'm guessing that the producers don't respect the type of game Michelle played (under the radar, going with the flow) that they edited her way down so that most people wouldn't be rooting for her and discourage that in future players. They want Tais, they want Aubrey's - they don't respect Michelles and that pisses me off too. One because that is bullshit and two, because it just pisses off viewers who don't get the chance to get invested in the winner if they dare to be normal, well-adjusted people. Sandra is kind of an exception because she's sassy and fun. She has the same type of strategy, but she gives good tv so we get to see the story of how she won by outlasting everyone else and making friends and making the right enemies.Seriously, Jeff has ignored Michelle as much as he can get away with. I was really interested in why people voted for Michelle over Aubrey, but they won't even give us that much because it would put too much attention on Michelle.

I get that the edgic was on point, I just disagree that they did a good job overall. Michelle had an edit, not a story. That sucks. I honestly don't think I've been this underwhelmed since the Jenna win in Amazon.

[Scrambled Aegon]

Aubry didn't play a better game. She failed to win over jurors in a game about jury management. The game is about convincing the jurors.

 

I am surprised to see Aubry losing at FTC, though, because I also don't think they really built her up to lose a jury vote. I definitely think the Michele win was forecasted in that she was my #1 contender to win every week as I've said a bunch of times, but I don't know how much it was really explained. I wonder what post-show interviews will be able to illuminate.

 

Fine with the outcome though, and the F4 and FTC were great... but dear God that twist was absolutely fucking horrendous.

[Gertrude]

4 minutes ago, Scrambled Aegon said:

Aubry didn't play a better game. She failed to win over jurors in a game about jury management. The game is about convincing the jurors.

Point taken, but I have no idea why Michelle won over more jurors. I just added a second round to my reaction post above while you were posting that might explain how I feel better than I originally stated.

[Scrambled Aegon]

I am definitely much more on board with that comment and appreciate the extra development on your thoughts!

[Howdyphillip]

 I have just spent the evening talking to people who really hated the Michelle win. They are calling her the worst winner of all time. I can not disagree more. Michelle should have been a target. Wise players would have gotten rid of her before Julia because Julia would always have the bigger target. Average players would have seen to take her out before Jason. She was able to manipulate her way out of these situations, and then poured it on at the end. Both of her immunity wins showed she is very quick witted.

 Aubrey may have had more time in control of the game, but not only did she manage it poorly, but she was also very lucky to not have been eliminated on three separate occasions. She was leaving when Neal was medeviced, she won a fire making challenge wich is nothing short of a tossup, and there was a final 3 rather than final 2. 

 I hate to agree with Scott and Jason, but Michelle did come on strong at the end, and Aubrey flubbed her way through.

[Gertrude]

I disagree with your assessment of Aubrey getting lucky. Yes, the Neal medevac was for sure a lucky break for her, but the game is littered with lucky winners. You need a little luck in your game at some point and it's what you do with that opportunity that matters. That she was in the fire-making challenge at all was because of her relationship with Tai. And who was truly expecting a final 2? It's possible, of course, but why was that lucky for Aubrey and not Michelle? Sure, she was coming on strong in the challenges lately, but it still would have been another challenge she had to survive and it wasn't a given.

Like I said, I'm not dissing Michelle, I'm dissing the editors and how they told the story. I agree that Michelle had a good technical edit, but I think there's more to a story than just that. I don't see why Michelle pouring it on strong at the very end is more admirable than Aubrey slowly evolving throughout the game. Hell, I don't see why Tai doing well at the beginning and coasting through the end is bad either. He did the work after the switch to survive and made it. If he hadn't he wouldn't be at the end for people to complain that he fizzled out. Sure, Aubrey didn't play it perfectly, but her mistakes weren't fatal and she course corrected. That shows why she could have won it. Michelle only came on strong at the end by winning two back to back challenges when she needed them. That's very good, but that's all the show demonstrated her doing. We didn't see her making relationships other than her original beauty tribe. Others reached out to her and she was shown being the passive one. I'm not saying that's how it absolutely went down, but it was what we were shown and that makes for an unsatisfying winner for me.

This season was different in that unlike other under the radar winners, Michelle didn't win because the other person was disliked. If Aubrey was that disliked, then they decided not to show it. That's why I think the editors made a decision to not glorify the nice, normal, girl-next door, don't rock the boat winner and it pisses me off.

Another thing that confused me - did Tai really flip-flop that much? Everyone kept saying it but I don't think it's really true. He turned on Anna after the switch, but that was self-defense and he and Anna weren't really allies to begin with and in the process he bonded with Scot. Then he flipped on Scot and Jason. After that he stuck with Aubrey. Even when he was voting Michelle, it wasn't against her - he just disagreed and made a bad play. His loyalty didn't waver.

[brAnthelAstgreenseer]

There is no way to defend Michelle over Aubry vote . I think the twist to take out a jury member is so ridiculous . Please do not do this again Survivor .

 

 

[Criston of House Shapper]

A very unsatisfying end of a lack-luster season. I don't know how the jury thought Michele played a better strategic game, so I hope the vote was personal, because I could respect it if they just didn't like Aubry or liked Michele more. I liked the twist with the juror getting taken out, it's very powerful and Michele obviously made the right decision. Doesn't mean I like her as a winner, still think she was very boring and forgettable as a character.

I'm glad I was at least right about my prediction of a final 3. 

I think I'm not going to dedicate as much time on next season. My favorite era of this show were seasons 25-28, when I wasn't doing anything except watch the episodes and maybe listen to some interviews after the end of the season. At the beginning of 29 I started listening to podcasts and all kinds of stuff, and I kind of haven't enjoyed the show as much since then. I mean, 29 was fine, but I really didn't like 30 and I think I would've enjoyed 31 and 32 more if I hadn't done anything but watch the episodes. So, I'm not going to post about it next season, I will just watch the "Meet the Cast"-videos at the start of it and then watch each episode and enjoy it instead of arguing endlessly over winner's-edits, because that's really no fun.

That being said, here's who I want to see back in some future season:

Aubry is at the top of the list as a strong female character, an area where there isn't a lot of competition.

Debbie as a very enjoyable crazy person.

I'd also like to see Jason and Tai again and none of the others.

[dbunting]

Well, I agree with most, that was a disappointing ending. I just didn't see where Michelle did enough to win it. You can say she did but as it has been mentioned, we didn't see her doing much of anything. I mean the editing really fooled me. During the fire building challenge it seemed like people really wanted Cydney to lose and Aubry to win, and yet they voted for Michelle in the end.

I think the jury elimination played a huge role in this. She took out Neal and he let her have it as he was leaving, just like he would have at the finale. So if Neal votes Aubry, she has 3 and MIchelle had 4, if Neal swayed one person by really going after Michelles tag a long game then Aubry wins it. That jury elimination could have been the biggest move of the game.

I still think it was a good fun season and if any of the other three had won it I would have felt like they deserved it more. Looking forward to next season!

[Kyoshi]

Really disappointed with the ending. I honestly can't understand how Aubry lost. She didn't do badly at final tribal, people didn't seem to hate her, and she played a consistent game throughout. She struggled and cried a few times, but so did Jeremy and a few other winners. If the jury comes out and says they voted for the person they liked most I'll be cool with that. Otherwise I'm really disappointed and struggling to find sense in the outcome.

What also bothers me is that Michele can't even articulate her game without Jeff jumping in to save her at the reunion.  She says she played a social game and I call bullshit just based on the edit. Watching 31, I SAW Jeremy play a social game, I saw Kim play a social as well as strategic game in One World, I saw Sandra in both her seasons, even Parvati in Micronesia and Natalie White in Samoa. However, I had to be constantly told about Michele's social skills in Kaoh Rong. Which I find really off putting. I fully agree with the first half of Julia's speech: Michele got lucky enough until she could be dragged. 

This season was initially going at the top of the pile for me, now I'm thinking it will rank lower than Redemption Island. Even without the Michele win, the last three episodes have been incredibly underwhelming. It peaked with the Scot blindside. Then it just went downhill.

Ugh.

Also, surely this is the worst twist in the history of the game. I don't know...for me it messed with the fundamental dynamics of the game. That whole "you've voted these jurors out of the game and now have to turn to them so they can give you a million bucks" foundation went out of the window. Not to mention it significantly weakens one finalist while strengthening another. It was kind of like Pearl Islands all over again.

[dbunting]

2 hours ago, Kyoshi said:

This season was initially going at the top of the pile for me, now I'm thinking it will rank lower than Redemption Island. Even without the Michele win, the last three episodes have been incredibly underwhelming. It peaked with the Scot blindside. Then it just went downhill.

 

I fully agree with this. It almost felt like there was no strategy in the last couple of shows, like the outcomes were out of their hands. Yes I know they had a fire challenge but even that didn't seem like a big deal. I mean, why didn't Cydney ever once make a fire out there? I am betting she regrets that now since Tai got zero votes, it would be down to her and MIchelle. Cydney unlike Michelle, Tai, and Aubry has a great personality and would have been able to articulate her game. I think if she is there she wins hands down.

[brAnthelAstgreenseer]

The jurors were fuckall nobody should return not even DEBBIE (exception : Cydney,Nick). They were the worst jury ever .  Michelle winning 5-2 makes no sense at all .

 

I don't hate Michelle it's just that she didn't show us anywhere that she was better than Aubry . I thought Aubry was getting a Cesternino edit going out at 3 last member of jury . Then Michelle with her immunity idol wins at final 2 would have been a great season ending . This just sucked and i think the production knew it and they were absolutely right about it .

 

Edit: That vote out the fucking jury member idea is so cruel to that person. Please don't do it again.

Edit2:Nick is ok i guess .

[Kyoshi]

3 hours ago, dbunting said:

I fully agree with this. It almost felt like there was no strategy in the last couple of shows, like the outcomes were out of their hands. Yes I know they had a fire challenge but even that didn't seem like a big deal. I mean, why didn't Cydney ever once make a fire out there? I am betting she regrets that now since Tai got zero votes, it would be down to her and MIchelle. Cydney unlike Michelle, Tai, and Aubry has a great personality and would have been able to articulate her game. I think if she is there she wins hands down.

I don't think there's a scenario in which Cydney wins. At all. In fact, I don't think anyone from the final 7 could have beaten Michele. Not because Michele was phenomenal, even a little bit, but the jury allowed themselves to be poisoned. They voted, in my opinion, for the person who hurt them least. 

I watched final tribal again and this, in my opinion, is how Scott and Jason voted: they voted for the person who didn't get them out. They weren't going to reward Aubry for besting them and they certainly weren't going to do it with Cydney. Julia was just...Ponderosa reveals a lot I think.  These 3 voted as a unit, just as they did in the game. They even use the same phrases in their jury speaks videos. Given the chance to screw anyone who wasn't Michele, they would have taken it with both hands. And again, not because Michele was amazing in any way but because they weren't going to reward someone who bested them. People keep talking about the amazing cast this season. I'm inclined to think it wasn't that great. Played too much from a place of malice.

Debbie is someone I think was won over by Aubry's answers at final tribal. Nick seems to have been swayed more by Scott and Jason than the actual final tribal. That's how I read it. That's the only way it makes sense to me because given her answers in the end, and just the way she played while still IN the game, there's no way Aubry loses to either person sitting next to her. I think she even beats Cydney if they both go to the end together...with a fair jury of course. 

[Gertrude]

I watched the videos of the jury members talking about how they were going to vote (must have been before the final). I now get why Aubry lost. The swing votes seemed to be Nick and Cydney, maybe Debbie. No way in hell were Scot, Jason or Julia voting for Aubrey. Also watching Cyd's Ponderosa, you can see how immature Jason and Scot were being, so it's not surprising. Well, at least I know now why Aubrey lost. I'm not sure how you show that, so I'm a little less pissed at the editors now. It's a combination of being sore losers that was probably mostly fostered at Ponderosa, and Michele not being very dynamic.

This is the closest I've ever been to bitching about a bitter jury, but I know that's how the game is played. Ironically, I think Michele won because she was a follower rather than a leader. Seriously though, watch those videos. The amount of delusion and bullshit oozing off those three is amusing. Scot might have been ok on his own, and maybe Jason would have been ok on his own, but those two together bring out some ugliness.

[dbunting]

4 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

I watched the videos of the jury members talking about how they were going to vote (must have been before the final). I now get why Aubry lost. The swing votes seemed to be Nick and Cydney, maybe Debbie. No way in hell were Scot, Jason or Julia voting for Aubrey. Also watching Cyd's Ponderosa, you can see how immature Jason and Scot were being, so it's not surprising. Well, at least I know now why Aubrey lost. I'm not sure how you show that, so I'm a little less pissed at the editors now. It's a combination of being sore losers that was probably mostly fostered at Ponderosa, and Michele not being very dynamic.

This is the closest I've ever been to bitching about a bitter jury, but I know that's how the game is played. Ironically, I think Michele won because she was a follower rather than a leader. Seriously though, watch those videos. The amount of delusion and bullshit oozing off those three is amusing. Scot might have been ok on his own, and maybe Jason would have been ok on his own, but those two together bring out some ugliness.

I have never watched a Ponderosa video but yeah, Scot apart from Jason was different, the two of them together was horrible. I could see Nick holding a grudge because he seemed so full of himself.

[brAnthelAstgreenseer]

2 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

I watched the videos of the jury members talking about how they were going to vote (must have been before the final). I now get why Aubry lost. The swing votes seemed to be Nick and Cydney, maybe Debbie. No way in hell were Scot, Jason or Julia voting for Aubrey. Also watching Cyd's Ponderosa, you can see how immature Jason and Scot were being, so it's not surprising. Well, at least I know now why Aubrey lost. I'm not sure how you show that, so I'm a little less pissed at the editors now. It's a combination of being sore losers that was probably mostly fostered at Ponderosa, and Michele not being very dynamic.

This is the closest I've ever been to bitching about a bitter jury, but I know that's how the game is played. Ironically, I think Michele won because she was a follower rather than a leader. Seriously though, watch those videos. The amount of delusion and bullshit oozing off those three is amusing. Scot might have been ok on his own, and maybe Jason would have been ok on his own, but those two together bring out some ugliness.

 

If they were so bitter about it , they should have shown it at FTC instead of saying my votes up for grab . Don't show us something else when you believe in something else .

[Gertrude]

How can they show what the jury didn't give them? None of the people who were never voting Aubrey gave any obvious confession to that effect.

Actually, while watching the Ponderosa videos, I quite liked Nick. Yeah, he's full of himself, but he knows it and laughs about it. I can get behind that.

[brAnthelAstgreenseer]

That's what i am saying , not blaming the production , Blaming those individuals who lied to show us a good face .