Le Cygne Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I think there are filming reports and pictures that are true every year. Then there are people making things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Well, they never really did anything worth a damn with the direwolves, and I totally see Rover getting killed not only for the SHOCK factor but also, if that rumour was true, as a way to prop Ramsay up one final time. They will show us Ramsay dying but kinda taking Ghost with him. Because that's what they do, they troll the audience. They don't have the writing chops to create believable and organic twists, so they troll viewers. As to the rest, I'm not sure. For instance, how does the maths work here for us to say they've checked 85% of the plot points? I still believe that only very few characters will have the same end books and show. I mean, for some characters that's not even possible anymore; and many others will require the usual resetting and 180o. Arya, Cersei, Jon, Bran, Dany, Sam, Mel, Tommen, Marg, Roose, Ramsay are in the exact spot they were in the books. Jamie is going back to the RL, so ditto for him. Brienne too, ditto for her. Sansa and LF are going to end up at Winterfell, as was long predicted from the books. Osha and Rickon return. Tyrion is in Essos, his rule is almost certainly speeded up. Almost all of the dead people in the show will die in the books. How is this not overwhelmingly hitting the main plot points for the main characters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I think the main brushes will be the same - For instance, if Littlefinger appears with the Vale troops as it's expected, on Winterfell, and allies himself with Sansa and Jon, this is likely to happen on the books, though I'm guessing there Sansa will be with him. If Sansa claims Winterfell on the show, she probably will on the books. At least for the six main characters, I'd guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Since when does he broadcast things in the books, and they happen exactly that way? It's not even possible for Sansa to be in Winterfell now, will she be there at some point, likely, but that's not the same thing. Sansa was probably going to have a story in the Riverlands, where is that? Jaime is in the Riverlands, but he was also in Dorne. Was he supposed to be there? There was a big story with Lady Stoneheart that can't possibly be happening without her. You can't just cherry pick and say, see, they are doing it the same way. They are adding and subtracting, all over the place. That they eventually pass through some inevitable place to pass through, doesn't mean they are being faithful to the books, even in a broad sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Just now, Cas Stark said: Tyrion is in Essos, his rule is almost certainly speeded up. Just to nitpick: It is highly unlikely that Tyrion will actually 'rule' anything in Meereen. Advising, yes. But no Ghiscari would ever take him seriously if the actual ruler is neither connected to the natives or Dany the Conqueror. 2 minutes ago, Alayne's Shadow. said: I think the main brushes will be the same - For instance, if Littlefinger appears with the Vale troops as it's expected, on Winterfell, and allies himself with Sansa and Jon, this is likely to happen on the books, though I'm guessing there Sansa will be with him. If Sansa claims Winterfell on the show, she probably will on the books. At least for the six main characters, I'd guess. If the main brush is "a Vale army reaches the North" I wholeheartedly agree with you. But I severely doubt Littlefinger is actually leading it. It'll be Sansa's rally cry more likely than not. I'm not really rebuking your main point though. I just wanted to relativate that a 'plot point' according to D&D is apperently nothing more than 'character is actually in the correct geographic region' and nothing more. Everything else varies completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Being faithful to the books isn't the same thing as having the main characters and plot points resolve the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 But you said they were all in the same exact spots. That's not being faithful, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 And honestly, I don't get the Sansa as queen of the north thing. I don't think she even wants to be queen, but it's going to look really bad if she does so over Bran and Rickon, and that's what it would be at this point. They made it very clear that a dozen people know Bran, the true heir, is alive. And they made it very clear that she CHOSE to marry a Bolton, and they made sure the marriage was consummated. They made her Sansa Bolton. Not seeing how that was very productive to this goal of her being queen? I know some just really want this for her, and granted, I want it to be Bran, but I don't even know that there will be a queen or king per se. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 They are in the same exact spots. Jon was stabbed. Brain is with the Children and Bloodraven. Dany flew out of the pit and is with Drogon and the Dothraki. Arya is training in Braavos at the House of Black and White. Cersei did the walk of shame and is soon to go on trial. Marg is in jail, soon to go on trial. Sam is going to Oldtown. Mel is at the wall. Rickon and Osha are MIA together. The Boltons hold Winterfell. That is hitting the major plot points, regardless of how many diversions and stupidity was involved in getting them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 39 minutes ago, Toth said: I can't see them doing that either, sorry. They insist again and again that the ending will be the 'same'. We have have seen what that word means to them in the hilariously faithful season 5. EVERYTHING will be changed beyond recognition and every ounce of meaning will be forcefully stripped off the story... and yet somehow through some miraculous asspull the same butt will be placed on the Iron Throne. And yet, since I personally think that the Iron Throne will be abandoned by the end of the books and the Seven Kingdoms will once again fracture into smaller kingdoms, I assume for the Ds that means EVERYTHING is once again possible. Because if George told them the realm falls apart, to them it neither matters how it crumbles nor which pieces there are left afterwards. So all we gain from the show is some kind of assurance whether there will be an Iron Throne with a royal ass on it or not. Everything else will still be up in the air. IIRC, there's an interview from last year where they actually say the ending may be a bit different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: They are in the same exact spots. Jon was stabbed. Brain is with the Children and Bloodraven. Dany flew out of the pit and is with Drogon and the Dothraki. Arya is training in Braavos at the House of Black and White. Cersei did the walk of shame and is soon to go on trial. Marg is in jail, soon to go on trial. Sam is going to Oldtown. Mel is at the wall. Rickon and Osha are MIA together. The Boltons hold Winterfell. That is hitting the major plot points, regardless of how many diversions and stupidity was involved in getting them there. But you are only listing the things in common, you are not listing all the things that they left out, and all the things that are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 11 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: IIRC, there's an interview from last year where they actually say the ending may be a bit different. I posted a couple of links upthread... There's this, too: http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/game-of-thrones-ending-season-5-producers-interview-1201469516/ Here's this, too: Quote I can't think of any other instance where the movie or TV show came out as the source material was still being written. So when you ask me, "will the show spoil the books," all I can do is say, "yes and no," and mumble once again about the butterfly effect. Those pretty little butterflies have grown into mighty dragons. Some of the 'spoilers' you may encounter in season six may not be spoilers at all... because the show and the books have diverged, and will continue to do so. http://grrm.livejournal.com/465247.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TepidHands Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: I posted a couple of links upthread... There's this, too: http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/game-of-thrones-ending-season-5-producers-interview-1201469516/ That picture and this quote make me stabby: Quote Catelyn Stark (Michelle Fairley), the beloved matriarch, is consumed with her hatred for this poor kid Jon Snow (Kit Harington), who has done nothing wrong to her. He’s just, unfortunately for him, born a bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: But you are only listing the things in common, you are not listing all the things that they left out, and all the things that are different. Those are the majority of major characters. Sansa and LF everyone agrees are going to go North in the books and end up at Winterfell. So, it's going to end up the same. Tyrion is already in Meereen and it's about 99% certain he will meet Dany and have some kind of leadership role. This is the same. Jamie and Brienne are going back to the RL, so their stories are going to reconnect with the book, where almost certainly somebody will be taken prisoner by the evil BWB, and then they will escape...which I predict is exactly what happens in the books. Shireen, Stannis, Myrcella are dead and will die in the books. This is overwhelmingly hitting the major plot points. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, TepidHands said: That picture and this quote make me stabby: Ditto. Also this: "One of the most common questions we’ll get asked is, “Why did you change this from the books?” The answer is always the same, really. It’s just because we thought it would be better for the series." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: This is overwhelmingly hitting the major plot points. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. No, everyone doesn't agree Sansa and LF will do exactly as he broadcast to her. Not at all. He doesn't broadcast his plans in the books, then do exactly what he says. Nor does the author broadcast what will happen. The same for the rest. Where are the very significant storylines in the books that are completely missing on the show in this equation? For Sansa. For Jaime. For others. These stories are not on the show, but they are big in the books. Where are the made up storylines for the show in this equation? They have to be taken into consideration, too. Why wasn't it hugely significant that Jaime was in Dorne? Why wasn't it hugely significant that Sansa married Ramsay Bolton? You are assuming just because they end up in a geographical location you think they will pass through, or dead/alive, the show = the books. You are right, we disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 37 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: Arya, Cersei, Jon, Bran, Dany, Sam, Mel, Tommen, Marg, Roose, Ramsay are in the exact spot they were in the books. Jamie is going back to the RL, so ditto for him. Brienne too, ditto for her. Sansa and LF are going to end up at Winterfell, as was long predicted from the books. Osha and Rickon return. Tyrion is in Essos, his rule is almost certainly speeded up. Almost all of the dead people in the show will die in the books. How is this not overwhelmingly hitting the main plot points for the main characters? I wasn't necessarily disagreeing, I was just asking. Yes, the characteres you've listed are where they are in the books, geographically. Although I wouldn't count Jaime, Brienne, Sansa and LF among them. But I don't think that means an awful lot, tbh. For instance, I fully expect Jaime to die much sooner than in the books, and that;s if he even dies in the books. Another thing is the characters that have been killed off sooner: Stannis, Barry, Myrcella, Mance... So, if any of them accomplish something important in the books, it's the same ending because that important thing was still accomplished by some other character and it's all the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said: I wasn't necessarily disagreeing, I was just asking. Yes, the characteres you've listed are where they are in the books, geographically. Although I wouldn't count Jaime, Brienne, Sansa and LF among them. But I don't think that means an awful lot, tbh. For instance, I fully expect Jaime to die much sooner than in the books, and that;s if he even dies in the books. Another thing is the characters that have been killed off sooner: Stannis, Barry, Myrcella, Mance... So, if any of them accomplish something important in the books, it's the same ending because that important thing was still accomplished by some other character and it's all the same? It depends on whether you consider them a major character and critically important to the story. Mance obviously did more in the books than in the show, he could even live but I doubt it. Stannis obviously is not an idiot, but he almost certainly dies before the end. Myrcella is nothing in the books and was nothing in the show. Aegon/Arienne can be debated but we don't know until the author finishes the books, if he ever does, if they are going to be a more involved version of Quentyn or have a real impact, but any way you look at it they're not main characters. Literally nothing happened in Dorne except Myrcella is dead, so they're simply going to hit the reset butten. Jamie goes back to KL, his sister berates him for another failure and then he goes to the RL. So, it ends up the same place. The ending for the major characters: Arya Stark, Sansa Stark, Bran Stark, Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryn, Tyrion Lannister, Jamie Lannister, Cersei Lannister will be the same in my opinion. That is 8 of the 12, not sure who else GRRM was considering a main character? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 But the author himself is saying (see above quote) the book and show stories have diverged. That means different in the books. "Some of the 'spoilers' you may encounter in season six may not be spoilers at all... because the show and the books have diverged, and will continue to do so." Butterfiles = differences in the stories that are already being told, not just for the characters the show left out. He's been talking about butterflies in the stories of the main characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Like I said, he says a lot of things. He said Dance would be out a year after Feast, he said the show wouldn't overtake the books. He says we don't know how many children Scarlett O'Hara had, but we do. What else is he going to say "Yep, I totally fucked up my legacy and you're going to get the ending to my story from HBO 5,10,? years before you get it from me"? The only way the main characters are getting different endings in the show is if GRRM changes the ending he told to HBO on purpose. That's my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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