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Rant and Rave Without Repercussions - Includes Season 6 Spoilers


HexMachina

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1 hour ago, voodooqueen126 said:

This I don't get. The showrunner's loved King Bob, so they don't find Cersei's adultery sympathetic because she is trapped in a loveless, violent marriage (which is why I would find Cersei sympathetic)... yet they view Cersei and Jaime as a great love story, despite the revolting incest.

Also still don't understand why they have Cersei and Jaime mixed up.

It does seem that they have made the abomindable incestuous relationship that is the primary source of just about all of the suffering since Season one the primary love story. As if they are victims because of their "star crossed" romance. Everything they do is justifed so long it is for each other, blah, blah, blah.

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1 hour ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

It does seem that they have made the abomindable incestuous relationship that is the primary source of just about all of the suffering since Season one the primary love story. As if they are victims because of their "star crossed" romance. Everything they do is justifed so long it is for each other, blah, blah, blah.

It's so bizarre. If Cersei had chosen a dark haired, blue eyed Maester to be her children's baby daddy because she didn't want to bear her rapists children I would've found that sympathetic.

Yet she chose her brother...

and the show runners think that is love?

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6 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

I looked at the trailer again, not sure if we ever resolved this, but Rover is definitely breathing...

 

Thanks. :D I think I sort of overreacted then. :D But some other people already convinced me we might have a Ghost who is defending Jon. Come on Ghost. I am rooting for you. 

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Is it just me or is it in the show whenever anyone opposes cersei or the Lannisters...they are somehow Made out to be the evil ones?

-Maragery

-loras is just the gay character

-ellaria

-high sparrow(can't remember if the faith were this cult like in the books)

-stannis

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4 minutes ago, ToTheWolves said:

Is it just me or is it in the show whenever anyone opposes cersei or the Lannisters...they are somehow Made out to be the evil ones?

 

Yes, or they are made more stupid than in the books (see Ned). 

While actually Tyrion was almost in the same way as blind as Ned: 

"Littlefinger was no threat to anyone. A clever, smiling, genial man, everyone’s friend, always able to find whatever gold the king or his Hand required, and yet, of such undistinguished birth, one step up from a hedge knight, he was not a man to fear. he had no banners to call, no army of retainers, no great stronghold, no holdings to speak of, no prospects of a great marriage." Oops Tyrion. Wait, did the Lannisters actually not made LF a (bigger) threat:bang:. Haha, idiots. 

And all the Lannisters tend to underestimate Robb:

"It seemed to him that Robb Stark had given them a golden chance. Let the boy wait at Riverrun dreaming of an easy peace. Tyrion would reply with terms of his own, giving the King in the North just enough of what he wanted to keep him hopeful. Let Ser Cleos wear out his bony Frey rump riding to and fro with offers and counters. All the while, their cousin Ser Stafford would be training and arming the new host he’d raised at Casterly Rock. Once he was ready, he and Lord Tywin could smash the Tullys and Starks between them." Oops Tyrion, it does not really look like the Young Wolf did that. And what are you sneaky? 

And in his conversation between Tyrion and Hizzy, it is made absolutely clear Tyrion is the Saint (because he does not like people fighting each other to the dead? I think he forgot his trials?) and Hizzy the evil slaver (who would be liked by Tywin according to Tyrion. Was Tywin not lawful neutral? Who is said to be eloquent?) Sorry, the show really made me into a Hizzy fangirl ... while I never liked him in the books? 

 

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15 minutes ago, ToTheWolves said:

Is it just me or is it in the show whenever anyone opposes cersei or the Lannisters...they are somehow Made out to be the evil ones?

-Maragery

-loras is just the gay character

-ellaria

-high sparrow(can't remember if the faith were this cult like in the books)

-stannis

Still unsure why they made Margaery, an innocent victim of politics in the books, into a scheming femme fatale bent on bringing down Cersei and her kids. Madonna-Whore complex, anyone?

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So much wasted potential... If it were written as S5 levels of writing, Jon would have told Arya "First lesson: Avenge us!! Take their guts out"

 

 

1 hour ago, Myrish Swamp-Thing said:

I find it remarkable how much D&D seem to be enamored with their "improved" and "complex" version of Cersei but, at the end of the day, the general audience still hates her for being "a bitch". Like Skyler White in Breaking Bad. Only that Skyler was never whitewashed by Vince Gilligan.

Carol's just that nice, she never even killed those babies, that was all Joffrey. And now we have the improved Joffrey, Ramsay. 

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Just now, Waywardbride said:

Still unsure why they made Margaery, an innocent victim of politics in the books, into a scheming femme fatale bent on bringing down Cersei and her kids. Madonna-Whore complex, anyone?

I actually wonder: 

did they casted Nathalie Dormer (Anne Boleyn in the tudors) because they wanted to have a scheming femme fatale? Or did they casted Nathalie Dormer and thought wait Anne Boleyn and made as consequence Marg as scheming femme fatale? Wait was first? :idea:

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2 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

I actually wonder: 

did they casted Nathalie Dormer (Anne Boleyn in the tudors) because they wanted to have a scheming femme fatale? Or did they casted Nathalie Dormer and thought wait Anne Boleyn and made as consequence Marg as scheming femme fatale? Wait was first? :idea:

I think they wanted Anne Boleyn, therefore they twisted Margaery to fit into that. 

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I would like answers for the writing of last season. It seemed as if they were just pulling from a hat. Am I the only one who had a problem when varys said something like "I do what's best for my COUNTRY" and that's just a nitpick but it made me cringe for some reason. I thought season 4 was bad. Towards the end of season 5 I was convinced that all of the original writing staff had went on a vacation.

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2 minutes ago, ToTheWolves said:

 

I would like answers for the writing of last season. It seemed as if they were just pulling from a hat. Am I the only one who had a problem when varys said something like "I do what's best for my COUNTRY" and that's just a nitpick but it made me cringe for some reason. I thought season 4 was bad. Towards the end of season 5 I was convinced that all of the original writing staff had went on a vacation.

I actually they are no answers and they really pull something from their hat? But if we the show defenders must believe, D&D know the ending and it will all made sense in hindsight  :dunno:

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1 hour ago, Myrish Swamp-Thing said:

I find it remarkable how much D&D seem to be enamored with their "improved" and "complex" version of Cersei but, at the end of the day, the general audience still hates her for being "a bitch". Like Skyler White in Breaking Bad. Only that Skyler was never whitewashed by Vince Gilligan.

It could be that television viewers are much more 'judgy' then book readers. Most of Sansa's Book 1 flaws were removed from season 1, yet people still hated her.

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3 hours ago, Tijgy said:

Yes, or they are made more stupid than in the books (see Ned). 

While actually Tyrion was almost in the same way as blind as Ned: 

"Littlefinger was no threat to anyone. A clever, smiling, genial man, everyone’s friend, always able to find whatever gold the king or his Hand required, and yet, of such undistinguished birth, one step up from a hedge knight, he was not a man to fear. he had no banners to call, no army of retainers, no great stronghold, no holdings to speak of, no prospects of a great marriage." Oops Tyrion. Wait, did the Lannisters actually not made LF a (bigger) threat:bang:. Haha, idiots. 

And all the Lannisters tend to underestimate Robb:

"It seemed to him that Robb Stark had given them a golden chance. Let the boy wait at Riverrun dreaming of an easy peace. Tyrion would reply with terms of his own, giving the King in the North just enough of what he wanted to keep him hopeful. Let Ser Cleos wear out his bony Frey rump riding to and fro with offers and counters. All the while, their cousin Ser Stafford would be training and arming the new host he’d raised at Casterly Rock. Once he was ready, he and Lord Tywin could smash the Tullys and Starks between them.Oops Tyrion, it does not really look like the Young Wolf did that. And what are you sneaky? 

And in his conversation between Tyrion and Hizzy, it is made absolutely clear Tyrion is the Saint (because he does not like people fighting each other to the dead? I think he forgot his trials?) and Hizzy the evil slaver (who would be liked by Tywin according to Tyrion. Was Tywin not lawful neutral? Who is said to be eloquent?) Sorry, the show really made me into a Hizzy fangirl ... while I never liked him in the books? 

And it's so nauseating how the show has whitewashed Tyrion.

Yep. St. Tyrion planned on destroying the Tullys and Starks. The Arryns, too. He wasn't a benevolent protector of defenseless Stark hostages, either. It was clear he knew Sansa was being beaten all along (he called her Joffrey's plaything) and he conspired to break out Jaime, never intending to give up Sansa. He told her, he'd only send her back when Robb bent the knee. Then cursed her for not bending the knee at the forced wedding to spare his feelings. And then they have her honor him just before she's raped by a Bolton, after they tossed out the Tyrion marriage, and declared it invalid by the law of the land.

I watched some early clips again, and even on the show, he lies to Catelyn about having Arya, he sends LF to do this. And he also clearly arms the Mountain clans in the Vale, with the deliberate intent to overthrow Sweetrobin and "reduce the Vale of Arryn to a smoking wasteland" and that led to horrible atrocities, rape and murder, that have been cut from the show conveniently with the Vale plot, too. And when Catelyn dies, they have him say Robb and Catelyn were cool, and hold Sansa's hand, at least she FINALLY disses him in that scene after bawling in front of him. But then goes right back to kissing his butt again.

Also Tyrion compared Sansa to Shae, calling them both false, then wanted to kill Penny, because she reminded him of Shae. Too bad Sansa didn't appreciate him! No Vale, no Penny, ... The sex slave is giving it away. Sanctify the ground of his holy presence. They didn't even let Robb and Catelyn find out about the marriage. Nor the Hound. Because hearing someone curse St. Tyrion might have offended their delicate sensibilities. And well, it's not like it matters anyway, because they decided to have Sansa live through seasons 1 through 3 all over again. Ramsay as the new Joffrey, and this time, actual rape. "Hugely dramatically satisfying" and all...

Adding this, as if St. Tyrion would ever... "You might have knelt, damn you. Would it have been so bloody hard to bend those stiff Stark knees of yours and let me keep a little dignity?"

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2 hours ago, voodooqueen126 said:

It could be that television viewers are much more 'judgy' then book readers. Most of Sansa's Book 1 flaws were removed from season 1, yet people still hated her.

Yeah, people hate her on the show, too. Although they made her worse, because they didn't give her depth, they screwed up her story with the Hound from the start, that was at the center of her character development throughout the books...

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34 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

And it's so nauseating how the show has whitewashed Tyrion. (...)

I actually see it just as a lack of courage or (of a lack of reading comprehension). Tyrion is not somebody who is completely evil but he is at the same time certainly no Saint and has certain dark sides. And even when he did not rape Sansa, I believe his behaviour during their wedding was completely disgusting. He literally shamed Sansa by his remarks (who were sexually tinted). 

I think in the eyes of the unsullied Tyrion is one of their most favorite characters. He is witty, smart, cares about broken things, protects Sansa, ... So they do not dare to make him less saintly. They want us to see LF as a hero and Ramsay as a sad person who has some father issues. 

And at the same time, the person I believe GRRM wants to use as an example it is possible to redeem yourself and still become Arthur Dayne after you became the Smiled Knight because you were sullied by your white cloak, is considered to them a monster? Why? Why are they doing this? Why are you destroying the person who is a symbol of redemption (and might inspire some people that they also can turn back from their current path and become the person they wanted to be in their youth)? Why? :crying: (It end it always lead to the fact they destroyed Jaime). And to me it is also a lack to courage to not make us care about him (while at the same time NCW would completely rock this like he already shown in season 3)

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10 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

I think maybe because he's a bad fighter. All the men in the room are gearing up for a fight, probably with the ones breaking down the door.

That's the most likely to happen.

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4 hours ago, voodooqueen126 said:

 

It's so bizarre. If Cersei had chosen a dark haired, blue eyed Maester to be her children's baby daddy because she didn't want to bear her rapists children I would've found that sympathetic.

Yet she chose her brother...

and the show runners think that is love?

Yeah, I mean the Lannisters being in control is overdrawn in the books but the romance/f - fest incest is done, It ended in the third book. Hell, Jaime by this point is referring to Cersie as the Queen of Whores and he is also rejecting his father's ambition and his familie's "Ill gotten gains".  Larry/show Jaime seems just as determined to retain for his family what they have stolen through incest, deceit and mass murder. The narcisim is shared by both siblings but they try and make Carol/Cersie seem justified in everything she has done. Jaime/Larry seems obsessed with pleasing her and "getting some" every once in a while as his reward. Strange.

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36 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Also Tyrion compared Sansa to Shae, calling them both false, then wanted to kill Penny, because she reminded him of Shae. Too bad Sansa didn't appreciate him! No Vale, no Penny, ... The sex slave is giving it away. Sanctify the ground of his holy presence. They didn't even let Robb and Catelyn find out about the marriage. Nor the Hound. Because hearing someone curse St. Tyrion might have offended their delicate sensibilities. And well, it's not like it matters anyway, because they decided to have Sansa live through seasons 1 through 3 all over again. Ramsay as the new Joffrey, and this time, actual rape. "Hugely dramatically satisfying" and all...

If I remember correctly, wasn't the whore Tyrion meets sitting around being sad that everyone wanted to fuck the Dany-lookalike whore instead of her? Isn't she supposed to be a sex slave

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