One-eyed Misbehavin Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 The book made it seem like when Jamie told catelyn Aerys' true late motives (burning KL to rubble with wildfire) was the 1st time he told anyone that. Did he not tell cersei or Tyrion maybe even his father? Or do you think the dungeons were genuinely the 1st time he spoke of why he saved KL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade of Sunlight Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Since more people know of the caches of wildfire he probably told someone else, I just think most lords don't care to hear him at all since he is the "Kingslayer" no matter the motive, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterfellsedai Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Oh...good question. I think the Lannisters knew. That might be why both C & T wanted to make so much as a greeting for Stannis. Of couse everyone will pop up here and tell me I know nothing...but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHappyFaceSalesman Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I'm certain he mentioned it to Cersei at some point, they shared everything with each other, to an alarming degree. He might of told Tyrion but if he did Tyrion never thinks about it or mentions it to anyone as far as I can remember, so who knows? As for Tywin I seriously doubt Jaime told him. I'm sure that Jaime earned a lot of respect from him by choosing his family over the Kingsguard and killing his enemy for him, why ruin that by telling Tywin the real reason that he committed regicide? So other than Cersei I seriously doubt he told anyone else before he confesses it in the books, why bother? Nobody cared about the reasons behind it and Jaime understood that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 17 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said: The book made it seem like when Jamie told catelyn Aerys' true late motives (burning KL to rubble with wildfire) was the 1st time he told anyone that. Did he not tell cersei or Tyrion maybe even his father? Or do you think the dungeons were genuinely the 1st time he spoke of why he saved KL I think it is entirely possible that Jaime telling Cat the story was the first time he spoke of it. He was/is a Kingsguard. Hear no evil, see no evil and speak no evil. Do the job and keep your mouth shut. Given the circumstances, who would have believed him. Modern day word would be whistle blower and we know what happens to them. BUT, Cersei had been in contact with the pyromancers as Tyrion discovered. So, yeah, maybe Jaime spilled some beans to his other half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 First of all, Jaime confessed to Brienne, not to Cat. And no, there is absolutely zero indication that he told even his own family about wildifre, and I don't think he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDrunkenDornishman Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 It is a bit ironic to think that even after utterly failing to keep the most important part of his Kingsguard oath (protect the king), he still seemed to keep following other parts of it in keeping the king's secrets, all the way up to his confession to Brienne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One-eyed Misbehavin Posted January 24, 2016 Author Share Posted January 24, 2016 27 minutes ago, Dofs said: First of all, Jaime confessed to Brienne, not to Cat. And no, there is absolutely zero indication that he told even his own family about wildifre, and I don't think he did. Damn you I hate being wrong he told catelyn how shitty Aerys was and how he killed Rickard and Brandon. Thanks for the correction but still the others take you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said: Damn you I hate being wrong he told catelyn how shitty Aerys was and how he killed Rickard and Brandon. Thanks for the correction but still the others take you. Ha, ha, no worries, it's almost impossible to remember everything in these massive books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anath Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I don't think he ever told anyone before Brienne. Mostly, he wanted to forget, so he wouldn't share it with Cersei and Tyrion. And I get the feeling that the massacre Tywin served KL is still a sensitive subject to Jaime, so he didn't dare raise it with his father either. Because, IMO, he might have lost it somewhat and tell tim he was wrong and that simply wasn't something one did. First lesson Tywin's children ever learned: "Daddy is always awesome and don't you dare tell him otherwise." In his presence, all three of them turn to insecure children hungry to win his appreciation, so no, Jaime wouldn't start such a conversation even if he didn't have his own demons about that time which he did. Tyrion might have connected the dots but not because of Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I think is a deeper reason why Jaime hadn't told anyone up to that point. And it has to do with his golden armor - ASOS-Chapter 11: Quote Jaime had slipped in through the king's door, clad in his golden armor, sword in hand. The golden armor, not the white, but no one ever remembers that. Would that I had taken off that damned cloak as well. Jaime had already betrayed Aerys before Aerys gave the order to burn the city. This is the significance of the golden armor and why Jaime is irritated that no one seems to recognize that. Prediction: It will turn out that Pycelle, Jaime and Tywin had conspired together to depose Aerys before Ned got there. Jaime had been told that if he wanted to side with his father he should wear the gold armor. Jaime didn't know about his father's intention to kill the children, which is one of the reason's he has decided to keep quiet all of these years. Because his story doesn't entirely make sense and if he tried to tell it to someone less naïve than Brienne, they would figure out what the gold armor meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 To be honest, Jaime to me seems like a guy who just never opens up his heart to anyone and simply holds all his feelings within himself. Just think about it, the first time he ever told to another person about Wildfire plot and how deeply the "Kingslayer" nickname hurts him was when he was completely broken both physically and mentally. Only after he lost his hand and was deeply traumatized did he tell Cersei that he wanted to marry her - for the first time ever in their longtime relationship. Such bold declaration of his desires even freaked Cersei out. And now, the only guy he now talks with about how he truly feels is an illiterate guy who can't speak. Feels like Jaime has some issues about opening up to people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyJAM Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 1 hour ago, TheDrunkenDornishman said: It is a bit ironic to think that even after utterly failing to keep the most important part of his Kingsguard oath (protect the king), he still seemed to keep following other parts of it in keeping the king's secrets, all the way up to his confession to Brienne. But you see, that's the point. Jaime is saying "Yes, I killed the king because there was no other choice." But there is a choice in keeping to his duty in other ways, and so he follows it. By keeping his reasons to himself, as a good kingsguard should do - even after being the kingslayer! - he's telling himself he's a good person, that he did it for the right reason, that it was honourable. That he doesn't tell Cersei or anyone else also suggests just how. . .hm. . .I don't want to say self-confident, because it's not really that, but I don't know the exact phrase. . .let's say, the opinion he cares about is his. He's isolated himself from the opinions of others, even those he supposedly loves, and the only person he allows to judge him is himself - in the past, he let "better men" judge him, and see where that led. Which shows just how deep his connection to Brienne is: the only person he allows to judge him is her. Which is why it hurts so much when she misunderstands him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiemal Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 That is a good question! If I had to put money on it I would bet on the assumption that Lannisters always lie. There is a streak of sincerity in Jaime, one that is entwined with a streak of irony, but I just can't see him keeping something like that from his sister or his father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 From the 1st read I got the definite vibe this was the 1st time Jamie told anyone. I agree with all the reasons upthread for Jamie unloading on Brienne, but will to it that he was in some way trying to dissuade her from the knightly pursuits as he felt the oaths were unkeepable. If you look closely he really uses all his sway to embarrass Brienne as much as he possibly can in the scene. I think her naiveté aggravated him so when goading her into showing her nakedness to him and then even staying in the bath the confession was probably an unintended emotional H bomb. Maybe he planned it and maybe not, but he was certainly at a low point during the exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Targaryen Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 5 hours ago, Dofs said: First of all, Jaime confessed to Brienne, not to Cat. And no, there is absolutely zero indication that he told even his own family about wildifre, and I don't think he did. Thank you for pointing out the obvious so I didn't have to. For your second point I would like to add that when Tyrion learned of the hidden caches of wildfire he would have at least had a thought revealing knowledge of the plot if he knew of the plot but iirc he seems surprised and concerned about how it could affect the city should some mishap have occurred. As for Cersei it may go either way, she seems to have a more narrower mindset which is a little harder to read as she is so benevolent to so many things. Didn't Jaime say to her that she sounded like Aerys at one point, I think in reference to her burning of tower of the hand. Perhaps he had shared with her, perhaps not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Targaryen Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 4 hours ago, FuzzyJAM said: But you see, that's the point. Jaime is saying "Yes, I killed the king because there was no other choice." But there is a choice in keeping to his duty in other ways, and so he follows it. By keeping his reasons to himself, as a good kingsguard should do - even after being the kingslayer! - he's telling himself he's a good person, that he did it for the right reason, that it was honourable. That he doesn't tell Cersei or anyone else also suggests just how. . .hm. . .I don't want to say self-confident, because it's not really that, but I don't know the exact phrase. . .let's say, the opinion he cares about is his. He's isolated himself from the opinions of others, even those he supposedly loves, and the only person he allows to judge him is himself - in the past, he let "better men" judge him, and see where that led. Which shows just how deep his connection to Brienne is: the only person he allows to judge him is her. Which is why it hurts so much when she misunderstands him. I like your notion of him not wanting to be suggested to the opinions of others regarding what happened. It seems to me, though, that he is not afraid of what others might say, rather I think he is just, as you said, confident that he made the right decision and he doesn't feel he needs to justify what he knew was the right decision. I agree with you about why he reveals to Brienne, he doesn't need to tell the story to anyone else whose opinion he values. Brienne had earned his respect but the circumstances of this story blocked him from earning her respect so he felt the need to unload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Thermopyle Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I think with Ned being the first to reach the throne room and condemning Jaime for not only sitting on the Iron Throne but for breaking his vows too decided Jaime's course. He saw how he was going to be viewed by everyone no matter that it was the right decision that he just said screw everyone. How dare the Wolf judge the Lion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Because if he told people everyone would've gone "Oh good job, you're a hero" and he wouldn't have been introduced to the reader in such a negative light in the first novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Targaryen Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 22 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said: Because if he told people everyone would've gone "Oh good job, you're a hero" and he wouldn't have been introduced to the reader in such a negative light in the first novel. Bugger your pragmatism in this, we're discussing a story, don't look at it with the fourth wall in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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