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WWE Royal Rumble


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1 hour ago, SerPaladin said:

Had the Cesaro and Zayn feuds in my head for Owens, but of course no payoff for Zayn. Can't be the underdog from the underground if you're wearing gold. Maybe in a year and a half or 2 and a half, where a WM payoff would be less abrupt. It's crazy to say that some guys need build-up after the energy Balor was bringing after only a month, but the Zayn story is different.

Why is Cesaro not breaking through? I feel like he's been "imminent" for a couple years. He's only above average on the mic, and he's super stiff, which history suggests is not something management wants, but his persona and moveset make me wonder. I feel like he's a small step down from Cena and Lesnar in power, but at least as strong as everyone else, and he's more athletic than any of the 10-12 biggest guys, except Jordan when he finally moves to a singles career (that guy is the next Rock, not Reigns, but it's a long way off, IMO).

I have loved "it" from Owens and Jericho so much I completely forgot that this feud is destined to happen. But who goes "face"? If Owens is the champ, and Jericho is jealous, it ends up a heel-heel matchup. How do you turn Jericho's sneering and scarves back into a crowd favorite?

Honestly, I'd rather Owens and Jericho go do the tag team thing for a bit. They play off each other so well, and I love the pop up code breaker. I think that they are one of the high points of the show any time they are on screen.

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1 hour ago, SerPaladin said:

Had the Cesaro and Zayn feuds in my head for Owens, but of course no payoff for Zayn. Can't be the underdog from the underground if you're wearing gold. Maybe in a year and a half or 2 and a half, where a WM payoff would be less abrupt. It's crazy to say that some guys need build-up after the energy Balor was bringing after only a month, but the Zayn story is different.

Why is Cesaro not breaking through? I feel like he's been "imminent" for a couple years. He's only above average on the mic, and he's super stiff, which history suggests is not something management wants, but his persona and moveset make me wonder. I feel like he's a small step down from Cena and Lesnar in power, but at least as strong as everyone else, and he's more athletic than any of the 10-12 biggest guys, except Jordan when he finally moves to a singles career (that guy is the next Rock, not Reigns, but it's a long way off, IMO).

I have loved "it" from Owens and Jericho so much I completely forgot that this feud is destined to happen. But who goes "face"? If Owens is the champ, and Jericho is jealous, it ends up a heel-heel matchup. How do you turn Jericho's sneering and scarves back into a crowd favorite?

Personally, considering it would only be a one-off feud (meaning one PPV match and a month or so of build), I think they could just do a heel/heel program.  I don't think every program has to be face/heel, especially short programs that are basically just a build to one title match.  Face/heel works better as a dynamic for long feuds, obviously, but I wouldn't see this as a long feud.  It would be Jericho turning on Owens, them fighting for a month, and then Jericho putting over Owens at the PPV.

I also think Owens would kind of shift into a minor face role for the feud.  Jericho would pretty clearly be the bad guy, jealous of KO's success to the point where he turns on him during a tag match.  And both guys are generally well-liked by fans even though they are heels, so I don't think it would be an issue to have Owens become a temporary fan favorite for the duration of the feud before he leaps right back into heel mode.  

I personally think an Owens/Zayn feud would be the perfect opportunity for the WWE to put Zayn over and make him champ.  Yeah, he's a lovable underdog, but even underdogs need to win sometimes.  Maybe he and Owens do a mini-program in December where Owens destroys Zayn in a title match, which leads into the story of Zayn winning the Rumble and Owens furiously doing everything he can to sabotage or injure Zayn in the two months between the Rumble and 'Mania.  There's also the idea of giving Zayn the US title at some point between now and the Rumble and having Owens cost him the match in the PPV after the Rumble (is it Fastlane?) as payback for him winning the Rumble.  There are a lot of ways they could go about it, but I think Owens and Zayn in a hell in a cell for the world title at Wrestlemania is a license to print money.  You just know those two would go out of their way trying to kill each other in that match, and if the WWE lets them bleed it could be a match for the ages.

As far as Cesaro goes, what I've read is that Vince doesn't like him, which is why the WWE has never committed to him despite him being insanely popular with the fans and very dynamic in the ring.  I'd rank him as somewhere between the fifth and tenth best in-ring guy in the company.  The top three are easily Styles/Zayn/Owens in some order, and Rollins can probably be penciled in at four if he stops hurting people.

4 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

Honestly, I'd rather Owens and Jericho go do the tag team thing for a bit. They play off each other so well, and I love the pop up code breaker. I think that they are one of the high points of the show any time they are on screen.

While I agree that their team-up has been great, I'd rather see Owens as the champ than their team continue.  Hell, make Owens the champ and have them continue to tag team for a month or so before Jericho's jealousy finally gets the better of him and he turns on Owens.  They could basically redo the same story they did with Finn Balor and Samoa Joe in NXT.

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12 minutes ago, briantw said:

Saw that ending coming the moment Triple H came to the ring.  You knew he wasn't going to screw over both Reigns and Owens, so it only made sense for him to turn on Rollins and set up that feud.

Yeah once he got Reigns, it was gonna be a toss up. A few months ago I'd bet the farm they would've had no problem rehashing HHH gifting the title to Rollins and giving a big F you to the fans. It nice to see how they are changing things for the better and breaking away from the standard mode of operation they'd been using for the last few years. 

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2 minutes ago, Joe Pesci said:

Yeah once he got Reigns, it was gonna be a toss up. A few months ago I'd bet the farm they would've had no problem rehashing HHH gifting the title to Rollins and giving a big F you to the fans. It nice to see how they are changing things for the better and breaking away from the standard mode of operation they'd been using for the last few years. 

I knew he was turning on Rollins because they've already done a Reigns/Trips feud, but a Trips/Rollins feud would be a great way to get people to tune in during the football months when the WWE has historically struggled to get ratings.

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Just now, Joe Pesci said:

Plus KO is so over that a new title reign in the fall will keep people interested. Can't wait to see Jericho turn on him.

Yeah my guess is they play the happy couple for another month or so until Jericho finally lets his jealousy take over, turns on Owens, and they have a feud that leads to Jericho leaving again.  As far as I know Jericho isn't scheduled to be around for that much longer, so it'd make sense to have him put over Owens on the way out.

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7 hours ago, briantw said:

Also worth noting that we are very possibly two weeks away from Kevin Owens and AJ Styles being the two top champs in the WWE.  Definitely did not think I'd see that day.

Very true. It's a testament to not only those two and their talents, but the current evolution of wwe. So far, they're really sticking to the  'new era' way of doing things, and it's paying off.

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18 hours ago, briantw said:

As far as Cesaro goes, what I've read is that Vince doesn't like him, which is why the WWE has never committed to him despite him being insanely popular with the fans and very dynamic in the ring.  I'd rank him as somewhere between the fifth and tenth best in-ring guy in the company.  The top three are easily Styles/Zayn/Owens in some order, and Rollins can probably be penciled in at four if he stops hurting people.

While I agree that their team-up has been great, I'd rather see Owens as the champ than their team continue.  Hell, make Owens the champ and have them continue to tag team for a month or so before Jericho's jealousy finally gets the better of him and he turns on Owens.  They could basically redo the same story they did with Finn Balor and Samoa Joe in NXT.

The Title Fight: Aside from the stink that outside interference brings, the WWE handled that match perfectly. Rollins focus switches away from the belt to a feud with HHH. Cass goes back to tag team work, but he's got some shine off this, and would be a legit threat in the Rumble when it comes around, if KO is looking for a feud. Reigns goes back to Rusev and "penance" detail in the upper midcard.

So Owens has a clean slate in front of him. They are absolutely setting him up for a long run with the belt. He's got 6 months of feuds built-in with Zayn and Jericho, with one of them taking up the next couple months. He'll have a program with Cesaro after Cesaro gets his title shot from the best of seven. They can even throw Cass at him in a non-title match here and there. That takes him up to WM. What do you think... would Lesnar lay down for Owens? Much as I'd like the Zayn feud to simmer for even longer, WM is probably where that blow-off happens.

As to Cesaro, "Vince doesn't like him" makes sense. Too many decades of Sheiks and Russians and fops, Vince has a hard time seeing foreigners as anything but stereotypes. I can literally hear him say "He's swiss, so he's neutral, I don't need neutral."

Who turns face? There are so few credible faces on Raw that Cass was in our main event. Someone is flipping soon. There were a lot of clues and bread crumbs last night pointing to some alignment changes. HHH and Steph do not agree on his actions. And heel Paul Heyman was very heelish to her. Will Steph turn? Rollins was finally hung out to dry by the Authority. If he wasn't such a colossal dick-bag on the mic, I could see him turning face. But every word out of his mouth last night was heel. Rollins going face while Reigns slowly turns heel in parallel feuds sounds like it could lead to a great match.

It would be a shame to turn Owens because he's such a great heel. But jealous Jericho would be the best short term pairing. Jericho is heading back to Fozzy, and this feud could lead to Owens going face because he doesn't need to stab his way to the top anymore. Sets up great storytelling with Zane aligning with him again as friends. That would make Owens eventual betrayal of Zanes and the blow-off match so much sweeter.

That Zane stuff is fantasy booking of the worst sort. It's more likely Owens stays heel through WM. Balor returns at the Rumble. It writes itself.

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2 hours ago, SerPaladin said:

It would be a shame to turn Owens because he's such a great heel. But jealous Jericho would be the best short term pairing. Jericho is heading back to Fozzy, and this feud could lead to Owens going face because he doesn't need to stab his way to the top anymore. Sets up great storytelling with Zane aligning with him again as friends. That would make Owens eventual betrayal of Zanes and the blow-off match so much sweeter.

That Zane stuff is fantasy booking of the worst sort. It's more likely Owens stays heel through WM. Balor returns at the Rumble. It writes itself.

I don't think they'll turn Owens, at least not completely.  If he feuds with Jericho he'll probably be the temporary face, but after that he'll go back to being the heel again I'd imagine.

As for Zayn, him winning the Rumble while KO holds the world title is a story that basically writes itself, which is why it's so easy to fantasy book.  I'm also not sure Balor will be back for the Rumble.  Projections have him as returning no earlier than six months from now (Balor said so himself), which would put him somewhere in the month after the Rumble.  He'd be returning a month early if he appeared in the Rumble.  It's certainly possible but also nowhere near a sure thing.

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3 minutes ago, lessthanluke said:

I don't want Balor anywhere near the title picture. I hate seeing guys get injured but I'm so glad we have Owens instead.

Balor will almost certainly get another title shot when he gets back by sheer virtue of never actually losing the title.  I don't think he'll win, though, simply because it's hard to see the WWE strapping the title on a guy who had just had to drop it due to injury.

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1 minute ago, briantw said:

Balor will almost certainly get another title shot when he gets back by sheer virtue of never actually losing the title.  I don't think he'll win, though, simply because it's hard to see the WWE strapping the title on a guy who had just had to drop it due to injury.

Yeah I know this but I'll take the blessing of 6 months without him on my to screen

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1 minute ago, lessthanluke said:

Yeah I know this but I'll take the blessing of 6 months without him on my to screen

What's with the Balor hate?  I mean, he's not my favorite wrestler or anything, or even top ten, but he's not awful or anything.  He's not in Dean Ambrose territory in the ring where I just have no desire to watch him wrestle.  

No argument that Owens is better though.  Owens is my favorite wrestler in the WWE, and in my opinion one of the three best in-ring guys in the company (with Styles and Zayn being the other two).  This is the second time Owens has gotten a big boost due to an unfortunate shoulder injury, by the way.  He got bumped to the main roster in Zayn's place when Zayn got hurt during his match with Cena, and now he's taking Finn's spot at the top after he tore his shoulder against Rollins.  

Sometimes you just need to be in the right place at the right time to get your shot.  

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His wrestling skills are fine but the demon bullshit is the worst thing currently in WWE. I'd be fine with it if he changed at all in his demon persona, like added a move or two , or got more aggressive but nope he's just normal Balor in paint. It's so so stupid it hurts. 

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20 hours ago, briantw said:

I don't think they'll turn Owens, at least not completely.  If he feuds with Jericho he'll probably be the temporary face, but after that he'll go back to being the heel again I'd imagine.

As for Zayn, him winning the Rumble while KO holds the world title is a story that basically writes itself, which is why it's so easy to fantasy book.  I'm also not sure Balor will be back for the Rumble.  Projections have him as returning no earlier than six months from now (Balor said so himself), which would put him somewhere in the month after the Rumble.  He'd be returning a month early if he appeared in the Rumble.  It's certainly possible but also nowhere near a sure thing.

Because of the way the Rumble is constructed, it can be a good place to hide if he's not completely 100%. But my math was bad, I thought the Rumble was right at the 6 month mark. And I know, it's the internet, but Balor in paint is not for the "grown ups". My now 13 year old sons never understood why I liked CM Punk when he was with the WWE. Punk and Owens and Jericho and Styles are for us. Cena and Orton and Balor and the New Day are for other demographics that also watch, though I love me some New Day.

On to Smackdown, up first the bad things. There are many. Was last night's episode a letdown? Shane and DB do not have on screen chemistry. So wooden. Slater's home life was bad TV. The women of SD are vastly inferior as a division to the women of Raw. There were yet more matches with local talent getting squashed. I like it with Strowman, he's at the beginning of his journey, not so much from Kane. Is it lazy to give Strowman and Nia Jax and Kane exactly the same story arc simultaneously? Giving the Hype Bros the the win means that Slater is the heel (with Rhyno). Are they really booking an underdog heel to win? Costanza winning is not good television. Ziggler's speech to Miz would have been better if Ambrose hadn't given a very similar speech to Ambrose a month ago.

Redeemable things: Corbin coming down the ramp as Kane went up... SD should have taken the opportunity to show that Corbin is legitimately a big dude, maybe with a staredown on the ramp. Corbin does not seem big in the ring, but he is. Side note, whatever is going on with his bellybutton is distracting. I'm put in the mind of the Old Man from Christmas story upon seeing the duck... "It's... it's smiling at me". Mojo Rawley is new to me, I don't watch NXT. In the match, I was thinking he could me a main eventer some day, he's fast, athletic, bumps like a rag doll. Then he talked.

Good things: Ambrose and AJ, post match. Ambrose is our era's Rowdy Roddy.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Cruiserweight Classis is just the best wrestling on TV (sort of) right now.  Everything about it is fantastic.  The music, the graphics, the way they treat it like a legitimate competition, the commentary, the actual in-ring wrestling and the clashes of style...it's just so fucking good.  Triple H can't take over the WWE soon enough.  As much as people (at times, rightfully) hated him during his wrestling career, the dude just knows how to run wrestling promotions.  Between NXT and the CWC, the guy is just putting on a master class of great signings, great booking, and a realization that letting guys go out there and do their thing is the way to get the best out of them.

He's also pretty obviously the main reason that Owens is champ (he's been in the guy's corner since day one), so I can't help but love him for that.  Owens is one of the best wrestlers in the world, and it's great to see a guy like that get rewarded for his hard work despite not looking like a bodybuilder.  

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By the way, I just want to say that the crowd chanting "you deserve it" to Owens after he won via cheating is basically my favorite thing ever.  Owens is one of the most talented guys in the world and seeing the crowd validate him like that was amazing to me.  I also love that he had Triple H, the guy who signed him and believed in him from day one, give him the title.  It's just so fun to watch wrestlers who deserve it be rewarded,

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