David Selig Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 7 hours ago, Wall Flower said: This thread really makes depressing reading between the two schools of thought, - if only I was a perfect doormat/medieval cool girl and did everything Robert wanted our marriage could be perfect, or - If I could tolerate the asshole and raise my kid right, I might just be able to bear being married to him for life. My thoughts - find me a handsome prince and a Dornish hideaway now! Yeah, quite a shame that nobody wants to murder the asshole except me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CryptofCthulhu Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I wouldn't look good in drag so I don't think that would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weirwoods Eyes Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I'd go with option 4. No way would I just suck it up and placate him. I'd take great pleasure in placing a bastard in line for the throne. Though in this dangerous world I wouldn't risk it. So I'd bear his children, at least I'd give him three, then take moon tea till I could contrive to kill him. Three kids is a decent amount to secure the throne, and they are my kids as much as his. So as long as I get to raise them to be good people I could live with his DNA being in there. I wouldn't think twice about taking a lover who would actually provide pleasure and happiness in the mean time. But I'd make sure my kids all came out looking like the King because the risk is too great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anath Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Build up my own position. I am not interested in an abusive husband, so I won't antagonize him left and right but choose my battles. He's in for a big surprise if he thinks he can walk all over me and I'll just smile. I'll claw his eyes out the first time he tries to humiliate me in public as soon as we're left alone but other than that, he can have his whores, as long as they're lowborn enough. (Robert's kind of liveliness and entertainment is not to my taste, so my heart isn't in any jeopardy of being broken.) I'll have my pleasures on the side if I desire it so much but make sure that my kids all come out with the right kind of colouring. Since this is a medieval monarchy and I'm supposedly a medieval woman and not a 21 century one who has landed there, the idea of king's blood is important to me, so sticking someone else's kid as my husband's is a big no no. I'll do my best for the "friends with benefits" angle but again, that depends on my "friend's" behavior. If he doesn't treat me right, I won't treat him right either. I'll try to win the greatest lords on my side and certainly win his family on my side since with his inclinations, I'm quite likely to find myself widowed by accident while my children are still small and frankly, because I see no use of conflicts when I can avoid them. Handsome princes and Dornish hideouts are out of question for me, unless I lose my mind, I am not a romantic 15 year old and by the time Robert can disappoint me so much, I'll be in my twenties and a mother. I am not risking my chidren's lives, my own life and everything else just because I can't do without someone else, especially if we're both married. I'd rather kill Robert discreetly and be a grieving widow rather than irresponsible fool without even being a teen which can win me points and have me patted on the head all over the forum. I am supposed to know better. If I am me of the 21th century who gets transported from here and now to there and then and told that there's no escape from the marriage, I'll either kill Robert or jump from the White Sword Tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairGrowsBack Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 4 hours ago, David Selig said: Yeah, quite a shame that nobody wants to murder the asshole except me. That makes two of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimJames Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Why is there never any middle ground on threads like this. There's always one side that thinks everything Robert Baratheon did was perfectly perfect, and there's the other side which acts like Bobby B (apparently calling him by his real name doesn't make him sound enough like a cartoonish villain) personally burned down their house. I've seen fans of Victorian "drowns slave children" Greyjoy bash Robert Baratheon for being a bad husband, and I've seen people claim Robert was justified in giving Storm's End to Renly. If you try suggesting a middle ground (That Robert was a mixed bags with both good and bad qualities) than everyone tries to rip your throat out. He's not a paragon of virtue, but he's not Idi Amin either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 1 hour ago, TimJames said: Why is there never any middle ground on threads like this. There's always one side that thinks everything Robert Baratheon did was perfectly perfect Aren't you the leader of that side usually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 If Robert is a paragon of a bad person, then folks might want to look REALLY HARD in asoiaf for good merchandise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Lark Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 1 hour ago, TimJames said: Why is there never any middle ground on threads like this. There's always one side that thinks everything Robert Baratheon did was perfectly perfect, and there's the other side which acts like Bobby B (apparently calling him by his real name doesn't make him sound enough like a cartoonish villain) personally burned down their house. I've seen fans of Victorian "drowns slave children" Greyjoy bash Robert Baratheon for being a bad husband, and I've seen people claim Robert was justified in giving Storm's End to Renly. If you try suggesting a middle ground (That Robert was a mixed bags with both good and bad qualities) than everyone tries to rip your throat out. He's not a paragon of virtue, but he's not Idi Amin either. I always like to pretend that Victarion doesn't have fans... (Speaking of abusive misogynists) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimJames Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 6 hours ago, David Selig said: Aren't you the leader of that side usually? I never claimed Robert Baratheon was perfect. I only believe he's a good person. He has plenty of flaws; him giving Storm's End to Renly instead of Stannis is a clear example of him making a disastrous mistake. But thanks for bolding the sentence where you decided to ignore the rest of my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimJames Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 5 hours ago, Little Lark said: I always like to pretend that Victarion doesn't have fans... (Speaking of abusive misogynists) Victorian's as abusive as it gets. I started hating him when he murdered that poor Maester (the one whom allowed his sailors to molest), and it only got worse as time went on. When I evaluate a character's action, I start with "The Peasant Test". It's basically this: "If I was an innocent civilian, would this character's actions have ruined my life?". If the answer is yes, then the character is not a good person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Lark Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 43 minutes ago, TimJames said: Victorian's as abusive as it gets. I started hating him when he murdered that poor Maester (the one whom allowed his sailors to molest), and it only got worse as time went on. When I evaluate a character's action, I start with "The Peasant Test". It's basically this: "If I was an innocent civilian, would this character's actions have ruined my life?". If the answer is yes, then the character is not a good person. Yeah the fact that he allowed his men to rape the Maester really, really upset me. I think it was the fact that the poor man actually went to him asking for help and Victarion mocked him for it. Similarly, when I read the Arya chapter where Chiswyck tells the story about Gregor and all of his men raping a thirteen year old girl in front of her father, stabbing her brother, and demanding "change" for their silver, I had to put the book down for a while.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Velar Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 If I was a female and betrothed to Robert the first and foremost thing I would do is not sleep with any immediate family and I'll bear his children have no more than 2/3 and then I'm done. I'll have paramours all abound both male and female, and for all I care me and dear Robert could share a few whores. I'll advocate for more rights for woman and the common folk for all I care as well. Probably murder him like Cersei is some horrid accident that never could be pinned down on me and become de facto ruler with my child being my puppet and be the Westeroi counterpart of Catherine the Great or Queen Victoria/Elizabeth I Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimJames Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Little Lark said: Yeah the fact that he allowed his men to rape the Maester really, really upset me. I think it was the fact that the poor man actually went to him asking for help and Victarion mocked him for it. Similarly, when I read the Arya chapter where Chiswyck tells the story about Gregor and all of his men raping a thirteen year old girl in front of her father, stabbing her brother, and demanding "change" for their silver, I had to put the book down for a while.. At least Gregor and most of his men ended up getting killed off in horrible ways. The books said that before being forced to serve Victorian, Maester Kerwin took care of Lord Chester's children on Greenshield Island. I hope one of those children stabs Victorian in the throat, but I'd be willing to settle for Daenerys feeding Victorian to her dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 27 minutes ago, TimJames said: At least Gregor and most of his men ended up getting killed off in horrible ways. The books said that before being forced to serve Victorian, Maester Kerwin took care of Lord Chester's children on Greenshield Island. I hope one of those children stabs Victorian in the throat, but I'd be willing to settle for Daenerys feeding Victorian to her dragons. Victarion also simply murdered 20 perfumed slave boys and burned 7 slave girls alive. He claimed that the death of those boys made the ship smell better. And he claimed the cries of those girls are happy singing. I hope he got a same ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyoftheNorth72 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 On 1/26/2016 at 3:49 PM, purple-eyes said: Hey guys, I am not talking about Cersei. I am talking about a kind and nice young bride of Robert. This bride may have some lover before or not, but she is not Cersei and she did not sleep with her lover before wedding, OK? IMO the problem with this scenario is that no marriage can be judged, predicted, or conducted based on either party being an emotional island toward the other. Cersei is as responsible for the bad joke that was their marriage as Robert was, and both their actions were almost always REactions to the slights they each inflicted on the other. Let me say here and now, lest I be mistaken, that nothing ever excuses spousal rape or infidelity. However, I defy you to find a normal, healthy man in his 20s and 30s who would calmly accept a wife who refused him a normal sex life. Yes, there are better times and worse times in that department; I've been married so long I have been through every stage (including a doctor's long term off-limits order during a high risk pregnancy). We worked around it, 'kay? But what if you turned this list around and asked Robert what option he'd choose if his wife denied him consensual sex for years at a time? Well, I guess his choices are divorce, whoring, or spousal rape. While we cannot condone the latter two, I'm hard pressed to figure out how he could have pulled off divorce. So he was in a state of frustration at his own lack of any honorable choice, and I believe that contributed greatly to the breakdown in his character to the drunken, criminally dishonorable sot he became. To choose to be a different Cersei IS to change her husband into a different Robert. And vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimJames Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 1 minute ago, purple-eyes said: Victarion also simply murdered 20 perfumed slave boys and burned 7 slave girls alive. He claimed that the death of those boys made the ship smell better. And he claimed the cries of those girls are happy singing. I hope he got a same ending. And he strangled an innocent fisherman to death for pointing out that the "Dothraki Sea" is more of a Steppe. And gave the rest of the slave girls to be rape-slaves to his captains, and he abandoned his soldiers do die at Moat Callin. If I was a woman, I'd rather kill myself than be married to Victorian. Jumping off the rickety bridge on The Pike will hurt, but it's the better of the two choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 If I were forced to marry Robert I would proclaim that gay marriage was not legal in Westeros, and then whip out my dingaling. I'd be honest, and say he wasn't my type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Victarion also simply murdered 20 perfumed slave boys and burned 7 slave girls alive. He claimed that the death of those boys made the ship smell better. And he claimed the cries of those girls are happy singing. I hope he got a same ending. And he strangled an innocent fisherman to death for pointing out that the "Dothraki Sea" is more of a Steppe. And gave the rest of the slave girls to be rape-slaves to his captains, and he abandoned his soldiers do die at Moat Callin. If I was a woman, I'd rather kill myself than be married to Victorian. Jumping off the rickety bridge on The Pike will hurt, but it's the better of the two choices. He's not all bad, though. He did shed manly tears when e beat his wife to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 On January 28, 2016 at 9:43 PM, Wall Flower said: This thread really makes depressing reading between the two schools of thought, - if only I was a perfect doormat/medieval cool girl and did everything Robert wanted our marriage could be perfect, or - If I could tolerate the asshole and raise my kid right, I might just be able to bear being married to him for life. My thoughts - find me a handsome prince and a Dornish hideaway now! You know this is a really good point. It is sad. But I do think that it is worth considering that people have to come up with viable strategies for being married to a drunk or someone they don't love even today. All anyone can do figure out how to live their life the best they can from there, regardless of what the other person does. Sometimes that's a divorce but sometimes not. Personally I would quite enjoy being queen and raising my awesome kids to rule Westeros. Unlike many women I could have real power and influence, and I could really help people. Having a loving marraige isn't everything. It's just one aspect of life. I'd be willing I think to trade marital happiness for the extra interest id get in the other parts of my life (parenting, politics, education, the business of the kingdom, etc). I don't feel like is being a doormat or just "tolerating for my kid". It's also my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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