Star Wars Episode VIII: The Force Rolls out of Bed and Stretches [Ep VII Spoilers]

[Davrum]

Sorry I missed some replies to my somewhat flippant post in the last thread --- 

To be clear, I like The Force Awakens enough to have seen it three times (so far). The good easily outweighs the bad so I take none of the cons of the film as enough to call it a bad movie. But cons there are and those were what I was (perhaps mischievously) pointing towards in that post. 

The reason I said it had script problems is that JJ and Kasdan said it had script problems. First they ditched Arndt's, then completely changed things from their own script, like Maz coming to the Rebel base. The reason I called the connective tissue "half-arsed" was that's how it felt. As if they had their moneyshot moments and their efforts to move the pieces into those places weren't as well thought out as they could/should be.

As for "what shots were there that seemed out of place?" as one person asked, how about the random shot of the Tie Fighters coming out of the sunrise/sunset inserted into a scene in which the rest of the light was early afternoon? Or, in the opposite case related to the same scene, how about the lack of solid establishing shots in Maz's castle. Han's "Don't stare" promised something of the order of the Mos Eisley Cantina, but instead we get a pointless steady-cam rush through the place until we bump into Maz (at which point, for no reason that makes sense to the plot or characters, she HOLLERS the name of her "old friend" - a guy who's notorious for wanting to fly under the radar since he's always wanted by both authorities and gangland figures).

Even many of us who enjoyed TFA enough to have seen it multiple times aren't so blinded by its charms we're calling it any kind of work of genius. Luckily it didn't have to be to rake in the billions for the Mouse House, or to give us some actual Star Wars magic like we saw in the early scenes of Rey and Finn, and in the interactions of Han and Chewie. Episode VII isn't as good as IV, V or VI, but it's at least well-made enough to have rekindled the Star Wars fire for the masses in this galaxy.

Now it's up to Master Rian to fan those flames into a good and proper inferno for Episode VIII.

[Rhom]

Before we continue the discussion too far... why was the other thread closed at only 18 pages?  Did some mod decide that discussions of the merits of editing vs script writing was offensive somehow?  I was really confused.

Otherwise, you make some good points; but none of that distracted me too much.  They were at least less obvious than having a weapon that sucked a star dry with no apparent way to move an entire planet or interstellar explosions visible in real time from a different system.  Again, none of that distracted me from enjoying what is the best Star Wars movie released since I was in kindergarten.

[Corvinus85]

Love the thread title. 

[Davrum]

4 hours ago, Rhom said:

Before we continue the discussion too far... why was the other thread closed at only 18 pages?  Did some mod decide that discussions of the merits of editing vs script writing was offensive somehow?  I was really confused.

Otherwise, you make some good points; but none of that distracted me too much.  They were at least less obvious than having a weapon that sucked a star dry with no apparent way to move an entire planet or interstellar explosions visible in real time from a different system.  Again, none of that distracted me from enjoying what is the best Star Wars movie released since I was in kindergarten.

Thing is, even with the distractions I did notice, I still enjoyed the bejebus out of the film enough to have seen it three times already. None of my criticisms are in order to claim it's even close to an unwatchable mess, even if it is somewhat messy. For me the conversation is not whether it's good or bad - because it's solidly in the good corner in my eyes - it's where TFA sits in relation to the films of the OT.

[Howdyphillip]

10 hours ago, Davrum said:

Sorry I missed some replies to my somewhat flippant post in the last thread --- 

To be clear, I like The Force Awakens enough to have seen it three times (so far). The good easily outweighs the bad so I take none of the cons of the film as enough to call it a bad movie. But cons there are and those were what I was (perhaps mischievously) pointing towards in that post. 

The reason I said it had script problems is that JJ and Kasdan said it had script problems. First they ditched Arndt's, then completely changed things from their own script, like Maz coming to the Rebel base. The reason I called the connective tissue "half-arsed" was that's how it felt. As if they had their moneyshot moments and their efforts to move the pieces into those places weren't as well thought out as they could/should be.

As for "what shots were there that seemed out of place?" as one person asked, how about the random shot of the Tie Fighters coming out of the sunrise/sunset inserted into a scene in which the rest of the light was early afternoon? Or, in the opposite case related to the same scene, how about the lack of solid establishing shots in Maz's castle. Han's "Don't stare" promised something of the order of the Mos Eisley Cantina, but instead we get a pointless steady-cam rush through the place until we bump into Maz (at which point, for no reason that makes sense to the plot or characters, she HOLLERS the name of her "old friend" - a guy who's notorious for wanting to fly under the radar since he's always wanted by both authorities and gangland figures).

Even many of us who enjoyed TFA enough to have seen it multiple times aren't so blinded by its charms we're calling it any kind of work of genius. Luckily it didn't have to be to rake in the billions for the Mouse House, or to give us some actual Star Wars magic like we saw in the early scenes of Rey and Finn, and in the interactions of Han and Chewie. Episode VII isn't as good as IV, V or VI, but it's at least well-made enough to have rekindled the Star Wars fire for the masses in this galaxy.

Now it's up to Master Rian to fan those flames into a good and proper inferno for Episode VIII.

 JJ Abrams and Kasdan has never said that the film that they released had script problems. There is not one word even resembling this. They did spend more time in production reworking the script, and they both have said that the time spent on it after Harrison Ford was injured made it better. There has been absolutely nothing negative about the script mentioned by anyone who wrote or produced the show. I have even searched today in case I missed something, and couldn't find anything at all. Could you provide anything else on this? 

 As for inconsistent lighting in the battle scene, You are looking for something that just isn't there. The scene right before it is on Rey with BB8, in what is clearly the early morning in a forest. We know this because of the light through the trees and they even mixed in birds chirping in the audio to establish the time. It then goes on to show the tie fighters behind a cloudy sunrise, and then the battle is filmed while the sun is overcast by the clouds using the exact same light. It is probably one of the most consistent use of lights I can remember in a film, and I actually do this for a living. It is also probably one of the reasons that the film was nominated for a best editing Academy Award.

 I also don't understand why you are bothered so much by the cantina scene. It seems to do the job of establishing that Maz is the one running the place, and gives the audience a little back story before you meet her. She is a brazen character who demands respect, and that is exactly what was shown. If there is any complaint to be had about it, the bar scene does feel reminiscent to the original movie, and to some people, that could seem like lazy writing, but I personally enjoyed the throwback there and in many other places that the movie attempted to emulate the original trilogy. 

 Just to clarify with you, What movie play or book ever doesn't go between set pieces in the narrative? I am really not sure I understand what you mean by this. I did see some writing choices that were based on convenience, like Han and Chewie hanging around Jakku to run into our new heroes, and R2 powering on at the final stage, but that is a writing critique I personally have, and it has nothing really to do with how the movie was edited. 

 Just a note. I don't think this movie was a perfect movie either. There are things within even its own script that I would have done differently. I do however feel, that it was the best example of this kind of story that has been told for this generation, and have said that several times. I can not think of another heroes journey that has been more compelling since I was a kid. I am at a loss for thinking of other examples, but the last time this kind of story was really well told was The Matrix (original only), and because of my personal love for Star Wars, I prefer this one over even that. 

 Thank you though for clarifying your outlook. It is so much easier to have a discussion when you provide background to your opinion. I'd also like to apologize to you if I came across as too harsh in the old thread. I can sometimes be smug and dismissive. 

 

 

[felice]

27 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

As for inconsistent lighting in the battle scene, You are looking for something that just isn't there. The scene right before it is on Rey with BB8, in what is clearly the early morning in a forest. We know this because of the light through the trees and they even mixed in birds chirping in the audio to establish the time. It then goes on to show the tie fighters behind a cloudy sunrise, and then the battle is filmed while the sun is overcast by the clouds using the exact same light.

But it's clearly already well after sunrise when the Falcon first arrives, and there's no indication that they were hanging around at Maz's overnight before the First Order attacked; it seemed more like a few minutes.

[red snow]

All this talk of light levels has me curious to carefully watch the Kylo/Finn/Rey battle again and everything on that planet. Because they were draining the sun in order to power the super weapon. Something I'd never have considered beforehand. As long as it stays dark it'll be fine but it would also be cool if it does get darker throughout.

[Relic]

1 hour ago, red snow said:

 As long as it stays dark it'll be fine but it would also be cool if it does get darker throughout.

It did. It got darker as the weapon powered, which is why it's dark as night by the climax. Or do you mean during the final fight itself?

[Stannis is the man....nis]

Well as it pertains to episode VIII I predict: Luke will be revealed to be Rey's father, it will be also revealed that the flashback with Luke and R2 is Luke burning Rey's mother who was killed by Kylo Ren, Kylo having "completed his training" will now be using Vader's lightsaber as his old one got broke in the battle, while Rey will make her own lightsaber, The First Order will score a big win over the Resistance, Kylo Ren will kill Luke in the big saber fight at the end  

[ab aeterno]

Am I the only one beginning to think that Disney is holding someone important to Harrison Ford hostage?

 

"Entertainment Weekly just announced that Han Solo himself, Harrison Ford, will be unveiling details for the upcoming Star Wars Land at Disneyland and Disney World on a TV special titled “The Wonderful World Of Disney.” The special is set to air on Feburary 21st on ABC. I’m really hoping we get to know the official date that Star Wars Land opens, as well as details about the upcoming attractions to the park in terms of Star Wars rides!"

 

Source.

[Ruhail]

27 minutes ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

Well as it pertains to episode VIII I predict: Luke will be revealed to be Rey's father, it will be also revealed that the flashback with Luke and R2 is Luke burning Rey's mother who was killed by Kylo Ren, Kylo having "completed his training" will now be using Vader's lightsaber as his old one got broke in the battle, while Rey will make her own lightsaber, The First Order will score a big win over the Resistance, Kylo Ren will kill Luke in the big saber fight at the end  

 

[Ruhail]

27 minutes ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

Well as it pertains to episode VIII I predict: Luke will be revealed to be Rey's father, it will be also revealed that the flashback with Luke and R2 is Luke burning Rey's mother who was killed by Kylo Ren, Kylo having "completed his training" will now be using Vader's lightsaber as his old one got broke in the battle, while Rey will make her own lightsaber, The First Order will score a big win over the Resistance, Kylo Ren will kill Luke in the big saber fight at the end  

 

[Ruhail]

Oh goddamn double post -___.-

[Howdyphillip]

4 hours ago, felice said:

But it's clearly already well after sunrise when the Falcon first arrives, and there's no indication that they were hanging around at Maz's overnight before the First Order attacked; it seemed more like a few minutes.

The implication here is that they did spend an overnight, and that Rey's force visions were longer and possibly even more detailed than what was shown.That is why Finn is ready to leave with the Alien people he just met 2 minutes before in the film also.

[Jace, Extat]

3 hours ago, Howdyphillip said:

The implication here is that they did spend an overnight, and that Rey's force visions were longer and possibly even more detailed than what was shown.That is why Finn is ready to leave with the Alien people he just met 2 minutes before in the film also.

!?! That's not implied at all, on any level. Finn is literally walking out the door with those dudes as she goes down the stairs. Was she lying comatose seeing a minute-long hallucination for 12 or 16 hours? It took that long for Han or Maz to check up on her?

I don't mean to be condescending, but you're going to extraordinary lengths on that one. In the Star Wars universe, people who want to get in their spaceship do so with about as much preparation as loading up the cooler and a few bags into the family van.

Not buying it, Cowboy.

[Howdyphillip]

39 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

!?! That's not implied at all, on any level. Finn is literally walking out the door with those dudes as she goes down the stairs. Was she lying comatose seeing a minute-long hallucination for 12 or 16 hours? It took that long for Han or Maz to check up on her?

I don't mean to be condescending, but you're going to extraordinary lengths on that one. In the Star Wars universe, people who want to get in their spaceship do so with about as much preparation as loading up the cooler and a few bags into the family van.

Not buying it, Cowboy.

Having them spend overnight makes far more sense than for Finn to walk up to some random dudes in a bar and hitching a ride with them before they finish their drink. It is implied that time passes there. Even though they do walk out of the bar, it doesn't mean that they are leaving right that second.

[Jace, Extat]

When is this passed time implied? On screen we see her go into the basement, then Maz comes and finds her a minute later. There's no indication that time has passed. You're using non-existent 'implications' to fit your argument.

[felice]

5 hours ago, Howdyphillip said:

The implication here is that they did spend an overnight

If that was meant to be implied, then there's your example of really incredibly awful editing, because that didn't come across at all. At this point I think it's more likely you're trolling, though...

[red snow]

8 hours ago, Relic said:

It did. It got darker as the weapon powered, which is why it's dark as night by the climax. Or do you mean during the final fight itself?

During the final fight but I guess you can only get so dark (and fight via lightsabre light). I was more concerned about whether there was a scene where it was "morning" on that planet after the final fight. Although I can't even remember whether the planet exploded now. The price one pays for getting caught up in the original viewing.

[red snow]

7 hours ago, ab aeterno said:

Am I the only one beginning to think that Disney is holding someone important to Harrison Ford hostage?

 

"Entertainment Weekly just announced that Han Solo himself, Harrison Ford, will be unveiling details for the upcoming Star Wars Land at Disneyland and Disney World on a TV special titled “The Wonderful World Of Disney.” The special is set to air on Feburary 21st on ABC. I’m really hoping we get to know the official date that Star Wars Land opens, as well as details about the upcoming attractions to the park in terms of Star Wars rides!"

 

Source.

Said hostage is probably called "dollar"