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NFL 2016: Super Bowl in Memory of John Fox


Maithanet

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3 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Fair enough statement. He can't be considered a failure, but maybe next level below the Brady, Montana success level?

Yeah, I think that's fair. His postseason record is a bit of an asterisk, methinks. I do think he has an opportunity here to kind of whitewash that narrative if he goes out with a win, or even if he just plays really well in a close loss.

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10 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 How come?

Well I figured after the Dallas Cruzboys won the Iowa Caucus that you went into full on face punching mode and thus your hands would hurt and you'd need time to let them rest.

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14 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Well I figured after the Dallas Cruzboys won the Iowa Caucus that you went into full on face punching mode and thus your hands would hurt and you'd need time to let them rest.

Lulz. No, I haven't gotten to that stage yet. If he continues to have success on the Primary Trail, that could change.

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24 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, I think that's fair. His postseason record is a bit of an asterisk, methinks. I do think he has an opportunity here to kind of whitewash that narrative if he goes out with a win, or even if he just plays really well in a close loss.

Hey if Manning wins on Sunday, he's got a winning career record in the playoffs. 

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9 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, I think that's fair. His postseason record is a bit of an asterisk, methinks. I do think he has an opportunity here to kind of whitewash that narrative if he goes out with a win, or even if he just plays really well in a close loss.

He's climbed back to a .500 playoff record thanks to Denver's D winning these last two games. It's kinda crazy how much of his legacy will be defined by a game where he's mostly along for the ride. On the line is a winning playoff record, a .500 record in Superbowls, and most of all that critical 2nd ring. His legacy is shored up and he's back in the conversation for greatest QB ever. 

Or he loses and then he's a losing playoff QB overall, 1-3 in Superbowls and his football obituary mentions playoff failure in either the first or second sentence. He's still an all time great QB but this is a permanent scarlet letter to his legacy. 

And again he's like tangential to this Super Bowl, like Trent Dilfer but arguably worse. It's a weird situation. I'd love to see him get it regardless...but it'd be a lot better if he goes out an earns it.

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9 hours ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

I think Peyton's legacy is being one of the most intelligent QB who struggled in the post-season.  If you view greatest on a player stats, Peyton's the best.  Success in the playoff and SBs  it is Brady.

I do not think Theisman is held in a very high regard.  Many will bring up that Joe Gibbs led 2 other QBs to SB.  

Umm... At the beginning of 'The Blindside', Sandra Bulluck clearly refers to Joe Theisman as "legendary -Redacted- quarterback Joe Theisman..."

So, obviously!!!

1 hour ago, Mexal said:

Maybe he has affluenza. All of that constant attention from 'everyone who wants a shot at the champ' is hard on a young man!!! How dare you judge him, Mexal! You've never been a public failure on his level. How do you know she didn't deserve it? Next are you gonna tell me that the valet had a moral duty to intervene when he saw someone asking for help!?! He's clearly sick, so none of that counts!

Meanwhile, the NFL has instituted the inclusion of women in the Rooney rule for executives. Obviously, that's progress. But I'm less than happy about it because I hate that affirmative action is a thing that's necessary. The thought of being hired (or interviewed) to fill a quota rather than purely upon my merits is extremely disheartening and demeaning. But to be clear, that's me disliking the need for affirmative action, not the idea itself.

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8 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Umm... At the beginning of 'The Blindside', Sandra Bulluck clearly refers to Joe Theisman as "legendary -Redacted- quarterback Joe Theisman..."

So, obviously!!!

Maybe he has affluenza. All of that constant attention from 'everyone who wants a shot at the champ' is hard on a young man!!! How dare you judge him, Mexal! You've never been a public failure on his level. How do you know she didn't deserve it? Next are you gonna tell me that the valet had a moral duty to intervene when he saw someone asking for help!?! He's clearly sick, so none of that counts!

Meanwhile, the NFL has instituted the inclusion of women in the Rooney rule for executives. Obviously, that's progress. But I'm less than happy about it because I hate that affirmative action is a thing that's necessary. The thought of being hired (or interviewed) to fill a quota rather than purely upon my merits is extremely disheartening and demeaning. But to be clear, that's me disliking the need for affirmative action, not the idea itself.

The most legendary thing people recall with Theisman is how Lawrence Taylor snapped his leg.

I am an Eagles fan so all are free to take my view with grains of salt.

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38 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

The most legendary thing people recall with Theisman is how Lawrence Taylor snapped his leg.

I am an Eagles fan so all are free to take my view with grains of salt.

I think of him as a legendarily awful announcer from his stints on Monday and Thursday nights.

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Barnwell's calling this a bad matchup for the Broncos on numerous fronts. I have to agree. The Panthers offense with all it's power, misdirection and mobility seems perfectly constructed to mitigate the Broncos greatest strength: pass rushing. 

And the very good Panthers D's one vulnerability has been deep passes, which, yeah...

I really want to see the Broncos win and I'm trying to rationalize some way I can see it happening. I want to see the circle complete with Elway handing the trophy to Manning saying "this one's for Peyton". 

And the only way I see it happening is if the Broncos are perfect - from Phillips coming up with a killer scheme to the offense not making any mistakes. Their biggest hope, to me, is Rivera and the Panthers getting tight..which they have at multiple times in the season and the spotlight of the Superbowl seems to increase this possibility. But you gotta keep it close the whole way to create that possibility. Here's hoping...

 

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Denver's D is really good, but do you think they might be getting a tad overrated because they were such a good matchup for New England?  I mean, Elway built that defense to beat the Patriots: multiple pass rushers who can win one-on-one matchups quickly, along with a physical secondary to disrupt timing.  Combine that with the Patriot's O line woes, and it's not surprising the defense looked awesome in the AFCCG.

BUT, Carolina's offense is the polar opposite of New England's.  Great O line and a big mobile quarterback means that Carolina has a combination of bruising running attack and deep passing game.  Denver's got a great defense, but they haven't played a team like this, and this isn't necessarily their strength.  It's not so much that they will struggle against Carolina, but I am really skeptical they can shut the Panthers down the way that they did to the Patriots. 

Fun fact, Football Outsiders ranks Denver and Carolina as the #1 and #2 defenses this year.  However, in the playoffs, Carolina beat the #3 and #4 defenses in the league in Arizona and Seattle, scoring 42 and 24 offensive points against them (plus a defensive touchdown in both).  In contrast, Denver scored 20 and 23 against the #11 and #12 defenses. 

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14 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

I think of him as a legendarily awful announcer from his stints on Monday and Thursday nights.

I think of him as the owner of a legendarily awful restaurant in northern Virginia (I'm not sure if its a chain or the only one).

As for the game, I don't think it'll be close. I think Denver will fare better than they did against Seattle two years ago, but they'll still lose by something like 31-14.

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22 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Denver's D is really good, but do you think they might be getting a tad overrated because they were such a good matchup for New England?  I mean, Elway built that defense to beat the Patriots: multiple pass rushers who can win one-on-one matchups quickly, along with a physical secondary to disrupt timing.  Combine that with the Patriot's O line woes, and it's not surprise the defense looked awesome in the AFCCG.

BUT, Carolina's offense is the polar opposite of New England's.  Great O line and a big mobile quarterback means that Carolina has a combination of bruising running attack and deep passing game.  Denver's got a great defense, but they haven't played a team like this, and this isn't necessarily their strength.  It's not so much that they will struggle against Carolina, but I am really skeptical they can shut the Panthers down the way that they did to the Patriots. 

Fun fact, Football Outsiders ranks Denver and Carolina as the #1 and #2 defenses this year.  However, in the playoffs, Carolina beat the #3 and #4 defenses in the league in Arizona and Seattle, scoring 42 and 24 offensive points against them (plus a defensive touchdown in both).  In contrast, Denver scored 20 and 23 against the #11 and #12 defenses. 

Get out of my head Maith.

And even with that grim assessment, FO rankings may even be overstating Denver's case because of their consistent underrating of the Panthers offense (#8 in DVOA) and Cam himself (10th in total DYAR) when both have clearly been the best in the NFL. Carolina scores 31.3 points a game, more than anyone. Yeah they may have fattened up on an easy schedule but as you pointed out we just saw what they did to two great defenses.

It's largely cause FO is overly biased towards short, surgically efficient passing offenses like Denver in 2013. And it's hard not to as these offenses have dominated the NFL since 2010 and put up monster seasons in the process. But as we've seen time and time again, these teams can be thoroughly disrupted by killer pass rushes. I think the Panthers offense based more on power, misdirection and deep balls is more sustainable against elite defenses because you can't just tee off on them without getting gashed. They might not have a ton of 40+ point games because of how their offense soaks up the clock but they put up 24+ points against everyone. It'll be a Heculean effort to keep their point total below something PFM can reach. 

Denver can win but it'll be a bigger upset than I think both the current -5.5 line (or 538 giving 'em a 41% chance of victory) is reflecting. 

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17 hours ago, Mexal said:

He is, there is no doubt about it. But at some level you have to feel bad for him. He has serious problems on a number of fronts.

And now it's being reported that his dad fears that he won't live to see 24 and has twice this week refused to go back to rehab.

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20 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

They might not have a ton of 40+ point games because of how their offense soaks up the clock but they put up 24+ points against everyone. It'll be a Heculean effort to keep their point total below something PFM can reach.

I hadn't really realized it, but Carolina was only held below 20 points once this year, and that was the "did they throw that game?" vs Atlanta.  That is really really good. 

Compare that to the best offenses in the league (according to FO):

#1 Cincy - held under 20 points in 4/17 games.

#2 Seattle - under 20 points in 4/18 games.

#3 Pitt - under 20 in 5/18 games.

#4 Arizona - under 20 in 4/18 games.

IMO consistent scoring wins games much more than sometimes blowing teams out. 

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As usual, people need to wait to get the facts before judging. The police filed no charges, yet. If they found no reason to charge him then why judge him here?

Now, I am also not stupid, the police may just be saying this to lure him back out so they can arrest him but until then he is innocent. If he laid his hands on her then he needs to be held accountable and every damn NFL team needs to not sign him until he gets counseling and such.

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2 minutes ago, dbunting said:

As usual, people need to wait to get the facts before judging. The police filed no charges, yet. If they found no reason to charge him then why judge him here?

Now, I am also not stupid, the police may just be saying this to lure him back out so they can arrest him but until then he is innocent. If he laid his hands on her then he needs to be held accountable and every damn NFL team needs to not sign him until he gets counseling and such.

 

Not really possible to arrest him if he says he didn't do it and there aren't visible markings or witnesses besides the two parties.

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Just now, sperry said:

 

Not really possible to arrest him if he says he didn't do it and there aren't visible markings or witnesses besides the two parties.

Which goes back to innocent before proven guilty. The guy has been proclaimed guilty of this in the media and here.

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2 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Think the Bengals are going to loose Marvin Jones. Not sure they will pay their #3 target 7 million a year. 

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2016/2/5/10922544/marvin-jones-not-offering-bengals-hometown-discount-wants-7-million

Yup but if they don't replace him, they're in a very poor spot. Jones is integral in some games.

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