Sunday of the New Martyrs: Soviet Persecution of Theists

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Scot,

Will you concede, given human history, that it is far more likely that religious people will attack athiest then the other way around?

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Scot,

Will you concede, given human history, that it is far more likely that religious people will attack athiest then the other way around?

On top of this- when people have been attacked for their religion, it has far more often been by people of a different religion than by atheists.

[Dr. Pepper]

You have to remember, those roving bands of aggressive atheists are equipped with mockery, the most fearsome of weapons.  Those other religions will just kill them, atheists could actually laugh a religion to death.  

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Scot,

Will you concede, given human history, that it is far more likely that religious people will attack athiest then the other way around?

Tywin,

Given the deaths in the Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, and other nations lead by aggressive Marxists, I will not concede that point.  When in human history has there been a wave of religious attacks on Athieists or a larger movement toward Atheism than we're seeing today?

OAR,

Your point I will concede that the more frequent fighting has been between people of different religious persuasions.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Tywin,

Given the deaths in the Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, and other nations lead by aggressive Marxists, I will not concede that point.  When in human history has there been a wave of religious attacks on Athieists or a larger movement toward Atheism than we're seeing today?

OAR,

Your point I will concede that the more frequent fighting has been between people of different religious persuasions.

Is that a serious question Scot?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Tywin,

I'm not saying it didn't happen at all but I'm wracking my brain to try to come up with a point in history where:

1) lots of Athiests existed; and

2) there was an organized pogrom against Atheists that was large organized and widespread.

I think OAR's point about religions fighting each other is more cogent.  

[sologdin]

pol pot wasn't an atheist, no?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Tywin,

I'm not saying it didn't happen at all but I'm wracking my brain to try to come up with a point in history where:

1) lots of Athiests existed; and

2) there was an organized pogrom against Atheists that was large organized and widespread.

I think OAR's point about religions fighting each other is more cogent.

Well it's true that there haven't been as many athiests as theists at any given time. That said, historically speaking, if non-believers, be it because they were atheits or followers of a different religion questioned the dominate religion, they were likely killed.

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Sologdin,

I always thought a fundamental tenant of Marxism was Atheism, a sine qua non if you will.  But I did just see an article saying that Pol Pot was a Therevada Buddist.  Were the Khmer Rouge forcing peoplw into Buddism?

[sologdin]

doubtful.  i think they just killed anyone who didn't fit their primitivist agricultural nativism.  that's not really marxism, either.

oh, but on the question of atheism as sine qua non of marxism, there's a healthy debate on that. my own position is that religious belief is incidental to the political questions that are marxism's core competency, which allows for liberation theologians and lefties like terry eagleton.  one might be religious in this way and still contend that theocratic institutions and religious indoctrination often serve the ruling class, &c.

[DireWolfSpirit]

They are examples of organized and widespread persecution of atheists. I also believe the U.S. and Nazi Germany qualify as two leaders in those efforts. Hitler banned atheism and the ravages of the McCarthyism made a special effort to link the godless with evil and ingrain society with an Atheophobia that is still alive today.

Atheophobia - RationalWiki

rationalwiki.org › wiki › Atheophobia

Jan 8, 2016 - Nazi Germany — Adolf Hitler banned atheist and freethought groups and regularly ... After learning why he was in jail, a fellow inmate attacked Saber with a knife, slashing his neck.

Still Think Hitler Was an Atheist? - Patheos

Patheos › daylightatheism › 2006/08 › hi...

Aug 9, 2006 - Christian apologists fond of Nazi comparisons might want to take a closer look at that first ..... It is only saying that religious apologists are making false accusations to attack atheism.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Sologdin,

Wasn't Dorothy Day a Roman Catholic Marxist?

[sologdin]

scot, am not very familiar with her.  leftwing catholic, for certain.

[DireWolfSpirit]

34 minutes ago, sologdin said:

pol pot wasn't an atheist, no?

Both Pol Pot and Stalin were raised with religious backgrounds and schooling so there's some interesting debate over this. I have no trouble viewing them as Catholic.

Stalins mother is described as a religious fanatic.

[Disturber of Peace]

Scot,

what people are trying to explain to you is that those 20th century communist regimes prosecuted any ideology they did not see fit.

Those ideologies could be economic, religious, anti current leadership, national, racial...

Lets say i am a Zamundian religious, capitalist and nationalist dictator.

I will probably prosecute you for being atheist and anti-nationalist, regardless of you being religious or not.

 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

It's also important to factor in that some political movements function as proxy religions. Nazism is the best example.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

DWS,

I don't think Pol Pot was Catholic.

[TheMightyKC]

Mr. Ellison, I salute you!

I have felt increasingly uncomfortable over the last 8 or so years that I will be persecuted for my love of Christ.  Just reading some of the opinions from atheists in this thread, I am convinced that what you speak of is certainly possible.  He who forgets history is doomed to repeat it.

I also agree with solgdin that the real danger is liberalism, and it certainly can be gross when it starts attacking others for their faith.  Just like KC threw his grandfathers old hunting rifles into the river (really, listen to "Come as you are" and see what I mean), and then dragged them forth from the mighty Wishka to pawn and buy a guitar, I think we who believe will be called upon to make some hard decisions in the next fifty years.  Europe is already embroiled in a culture war of faith, and the US is no different with liberalist attacks on Christianity (see war on Christmas).  

I have been mocked on Facebook for merely reminding folks that Christmas is about Christ first and foremost.  I have been mocked for pointing out the science still hasn't answered some of nature's (God's) greatest mysteries.  We may be the dominant religion here but only the true believers will remain when the government is taken over by violent atheists.  And then we will be few and there will be no one left to speak for us.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

I invoke Poe's Law.

 

[karaddin]

So because for most of recent human history religions were so good at imposing their belief onto others that atheists couldn't openly exist, therefore not being able to have large numbers of them around to have a pogrom against, it doesn't count as persecution in your eyes Scot? That's some truly bizarre reasoning.

And the way you seem to view potential persecution of Christians in the future as categorically more important than the actual harm being done right now is really quite gross.