What if the TV show fulfills all popular fan theories, and GRRM's upcoming novels don't

[CruzaderJC]

I was thinking about this the other day when I saw the season 6 poster teasing the return of Jon Snow. What if the HBO showrunners of Game of Thrones are aware of all the popular fan theories and just said, screw whatever GRRM thinks, R+L=J because its the most literary sense.

I just worry about things like R+L=J in the ASOIAF series because we all know that GRRM likes to completely subvert our expectations. In fact, he might change R+L=J and other popular theories just BECAUSE the fandom has assumed it as canon.

I think that with the success of the exhilarating traditional hero arc that the Hardhome episode presented, the show might pursue the satisfying fulfillment of popular theories like Cleganebowl, a Jon Snow/Danerys teamup and romance, a final standard fantasy epic war showdown with the Others, and a happy ending for the series.

I just feel like it would be in HBO's best interest to pursue that route, as the casual viewers have gotten frustrated with the twists, that hold much more meaning and logic in the novels.

That being said, for us obsessed with GRRM's masterpiece novels, I imagine that GRRM will stay true to his story, regardless of what the book readers have speculated. And honestly, that's what makes series unique and special.

I think we have a great opportunity for the TV show to fulfill our wishes for the story, but ultimately i want George to give us the ASOIAF hevalways intended in the upcoming novels. I, for one, can accept a TV show where a resurrected Jon Targaryen takes his rightful place on the throne as the Fantasy heir hero archetype, existing alongside a book series that might have Jon Snow dead, himself forever warged into Ghost and the Others using his body as a perverse Wight King as the realm is overtaken and pretty much everyone dies bc they were so wrapped up in the vanity of pursuing the Throne. These would be two completely different stories, and I would love them both.

[Good Guy Garlan]

8 minutes ago, CruzaderJC said:

 

I just feel like it would be in HBO's best interest to pursue that route, as the casual viewers have gotten frustrated with the twists, that hold much more meaning and logic in the novels.

What? The twists is the show's sole claim to fame, the reason why casual viewers watch in the first place. Season 5 got such a lukewarm reception among casual viewers precisely because it had very few twists (and the ones it had were thoroughly unearned) and it mostly settled with traditional and horribly cliche plotlines (like everything about the clusterfuck that was Dorne).

[RobOsevens]

38 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

What? The twists is the show's sole claim to fame, the reason why casual viewers watch in the first place. Season 5 got such a lukewarm reception among casual viewers precisely because it had very few twists (and the ones it had were thoroughly unearned) and it mostly settled with traditional and horribly cliche plotlines (like everything about the clusterfuck that was Dorne).

Yeah im with GGG on this one

Also any major reveals in the show like R+L =J should end up the same as the book, also whoever sits the IT at the end. D&D supposedly know how it ends from GRRM himself so if those are different it is GRRM doing and not the shows.

If there is a big battle it will be different as the minor characters are going to vary even further going forward and a TV adaptation will have to be different as most of the ones already filmed have been.

 

[TeamWhiteWalkerz]

1 hour ago, CruzaderJC said:

I was thinking about this the other day when I saw the season 6 poster teasing the return of Jon Snow. What if the HBO showrunners of Game of Thrones are aware of all the popular fan theories and just said, screw whatever GRRM thinks, R+L=J because its the most literary sense.

I just worry about things like R+L=J in the ASOIAF series because we all know that GRRM likes to completely subvert our expectations.
No he doesn't...
In fact, he might change R+L=J and other popular theories just BECAUSE the fandom has assumed it as canon.
GRRM has said that he would not change the ending if someone guessed it.

I think that with the success of the exhilarating traditional hero arc that the Hardhome episode presented, the show might pursue the satisfying fulfillment of popular theories like Cleganebowl, a Jon Snow/Danerys teamup and romance, a final standard fantasy epic war showdown with the Others, and a happy ending for the series.
Oh you mean that traditional hero arc, which is also present in the books...
Cleganebowl is actually less likely in the show because there is no gravedigger
What is it with people not wanting an epic fantasy final battle. It'd be the best part... by far

I just feel like it would be in HBO's best interest to pursue that route, as the casual viewers have gotten frustrated with the twists, that hold much more meaning and logic in the novels.
The casual viewer might think they are frustrated and say "NOOO MUH JOHN^{because casuals spell it with h} SNOW FUCK THIS SHOW", but they'll come back... they always do.

That being said, for us obsessed with GRRM's masterpiece novels, I imagine that GRRM will stay true to his story, regardless of what the book readers have speculated. And honestly, that's what makes series unique and special.

I think we have a great opportunity for the TV show to fulfill our wishes for the story, but ultimately i want George to give us the ASOIAF hevalways intended in the upcoming novels. I, for one, can accept a TV show where a resurrected Jon Targaryen takes his rightful place on the throne as the Fantasy heir hero archetype, existing alongside a book series that might have Jon Snow dead, himself forever warged into Ghost and the Others using his body as a perverse Wight King as the realm is overtaken and pretty much everyone dies bc they were so wrapped up in the vanity of pursuing the Throne. These would be two completely different stories, and I would love them both.
Jon is one of, if no the most important character. His fate will not change. 

The show may change a few minor things... sometimes a big thing (poor Sansa), but it will definitely not change the crucial plot-points.

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

I like the idea that the show runners were only given the very barest-bone explanation of how the series ends, and they are filling in the gaps with fan theories from Reddit and here.  This will make it even more likely that GRRM will change his plans if too many people guess them on the internet…I know he said he hasn't, but why does everyone believe that GRRM would never, ever lie about his writing process?  It would turn off a huge number of fans if he said "I'm not sure where this story is going, I just made up a bunch of prophecies because the symbolism was spooky and later I try to work them into the plot - I'm a gardener, just watching how the story grows".

[TeamWhiteWalkerz]

3 minutes ago, A Song of Ass and Fire said:

I like the idea that the show runners were only given the very barest-bone explanation of how the series ends, and they are filling in the gaps with fan theories from Reddit and here.  This will make it even more likely that GRRM will change his plans if too many people guess them on the internet…I know he said he hasn't, but why does everyone believe that GRRM would never, ever lie about his writing process?  It would turn off a huge number of fans if he said "I'm not sure where this story is going, I just made up a bunch of prophecies because the symbolism was spooky and later I try to work them into the plot - I'm a gardener, just watching how the story grows".

Because of the way he said it

 

" They say: “Oh God, the butler did it!”, to use an example of a mystery novel. Then, you think: “I have to change the ending! The maiden would be the criminal!” To my mind that way is a disaster because if you are doing well you work, the books are full of clues that point to the butler doing it and help you to figure up the butler did it, but if you change the ending to point the maiden, the clues make no sense anymore; they are wrong or are lies, and I am not a liar. "

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

2 minutes ago, TeamWhiteWalkerz said:

Because of the way he said it

 

" They say: “Oh God, the butler did it!”, to use an example of a mystery novel. Then, you think: “I have to change the ending! The maiden would be the criminal!” To my mind that way is a disaster because if you are doing well you work, the books are full of clues that point to the butler doing it and help you to figure up the butler did it, but if you change the ending to point the maiden, the clues make no sense anymore; they are wrong or are lies, and I am not a liar. "

Someone saying they are not a liar does not prove they are not a liar.  Liars say they are not liars all the time.  You can only trust people who don't lie to tell the truth about not lying.

And this is the kind of lie he could never, ever be caught in.  He will just say his mystery was so clever that few people figured it out and they all fell for the red herrings.  Just like Trump is going to say that he intended to screw up the election when he loses.  And since so many alternative theories have been proposed, no matter what he changes it to, there will be some people who said they figured it out and he can say "Yep, the people who guessed that Ned and Lyanna were the parents of Jon had it right all along".

[Good Guy Garlan]

1 minute ago, A Song of Ass and Fire said:

I like the idea that the show runners were only given the very barest-bone explanation of how the series ends, and they are filling in the gaps with fan theories from Reddit and here.  This will make it even more likely that GRRM will change his plans if too many people guess them on the internet…I know he said he hasn't, but why does everyone believe that GRRM would never, ever lie about his writing process?  It would turn off a huge number of fans if he said "I'm not sure where this story is going, I just made up a bunch of prophecies because the symbolism was spooky and later I try to work them into the plot - I'm a gardener, just watching how the story grows".

"This is going to drive your readers crazy, but I love it. I'm still weighing whether to go that direction or not. It's a great twist. It's easy to do things that are shocking or unexpected, but they have to grow out of characters. They have to grow out of situations. Otherwise, it's just being shocking for being shocking. But this is something that seems very organic and natural, and I could see how it would happen. And with the various three, four characters involved... it all makes sense. But it's nothing I've ever thought of before. And it's nothing they can do in the show, because the show has already - on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it, where in my case I have not made those decisions."

So yeah, you're totally right. 

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

Of course, if he does end up making some of my crazier ideas come true, I'm going to pretend to believe that he planned it that way all along, and everybody else was just not as smart as me because they didn't figure it out.

[RobOsevens]

We better not have to wait 5 years after the show ends and get drastically different endings for main characters / plot lines

[ChillyPolly]

6 minutes ago, RobOsevens said:

We better not have to wait 5 years after the show ends and get drastically different endings for main characters / plot lines

Better not?  You mean, we'll not only get an ending written by the original author, but we'll get it within 10 years, and it won't be completely spoiled by the show?  That sounds like high optimism to me.

[TeamWhiteWalkerz]

9 minutes ago, RobOsevens said:

We better not have to wait 5 years after the show ends and get drastically different endings for main characters / plot lines

I think it will only take 3 years after the show ends for the last book to be released. only

[RobOsevens]

Just now, ChillyPolly said:

Better not?  You mean, we'll not only get an ending, but get it within 10 years, and it won't be completely spoiled by the show?  That sounds like high optimism to me.

Unfortunately its not but I hope it works for you but for me it does not. Don't get me wrong the books are 10x better (atleast) and it is my love of the books that brings me to the show but the Hardhome episode last year when Jon kills the Other I cheered like I was watching a sport event (not something I do for fiction), that scene or something like it was what I have been waiting for idk how long and as cool as it was I'm disappointed I watched it rather than read it. 

I feel like if there are massive changes  then GRRM is making them to make it different from the show

[ChillyPolly]

Just now, TeamWhiteWalkerz said:

I think it will only take 3 years after the show ends for the last book to be released. only

Maybe you're being a little pessimistic in your assumption that Book 6 will be the last book.

[Good Guy Garlan]

1 minute ago, ChillyPolly said:

Maybe you're being a little pessimistic in your assumption that Book 6 will be the last book.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

GRRM has said, more than once I believe that he will NOT change anything major even though he knows that some of the fans (and that would be very few, so not likely the more popular theories) have figured out the ending. His point being that none of the foreshadowing he has painstakingly planted for us would ever lead to an ending other than the one he intended.

Gardening is not throwing seeds into the dirt and waiting to see what happens. Gardening is planning, planting, making adjustments as necessary, sometimes fertilizing, watering, weeding, and finally getting what you planned all along, maybe with one or two small surprises as well.  The opposite to gardening (architecture) is knowing every tiny detail in advance, which works great for some people but allows no creativity or adjustment. If you're an architect writer hit a wall and can't go forward, you may have to start over, whereas the gardener can take a good look at what's going on and find a way out of Meereen without destroying the rest of the garden. See, gardens are far more flexible than buildings are.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

14 minutes ago, RobOsevens said:

<snip

I feel like if there are massive changes  then GRRM is making them to make it different from the show

Considering the massive changes that the show has made from the source material, GRRM won't have to change a thing and it will still be wildly (almost wrote wildling, LOL) different.

Sure it seems like mostly small changes, but they have--as has been mentioned by others, GRRM included--the butterfly effect and will lead to larger changes before the series is over.

[TeamWhiteWalkerz]

24 minutes ago, ChillyPolly said:

Maybe you're being a little pessimistic in your assumption that Book 6 will be the last book.

Come on now... TWOW 2016 is still possible. George won't disappoint us ;-;

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

2 hours ago, CruzaderJC said:

I was thinking about this the other day when I saw the season 6 poster teasing the return of Jon Snow. What if the HBO showrunners of Game of Thrones are aware of all the popular fan theories and just said, screw whatever GRRM thinks, R+L=J because its the most literary sense.

I just worry about things like R+L=J in the ASOIAF series because we all know that GRRM likes to completely subvert our expectations. In fact, he might change R+L=J and other popular theories just BECAUSE the fandom has assumed it as canon.

He might. If he was writing a pulp serial novel, which depended solely on twists and cliffhangers to stay alive.

[ChillyPolly]

23 minutes ago, RobOsevens said:

I feel like if there are massive changes  then GRRM is making them to make it different from the show

I would not assume that at all.

But sure, if HBO thinks GRRM's ideas are really cool, they will use them.  If they don't like his ideas, they won't use them.  And they are far more likely than GRRM to pander to what they think the fans want, rather than what they think is good.

I'm not sure GRRM is above a little pandering, but I am quite sure HBO is not above pandering.