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Rat Cook in the Kitchen


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All quotes from Storm, Bran IV.  At the Nightfort.

“The Reeds decided that they would sleep in the Kitchens, a stone octagon with a broken dome. It looked to offer better shelter than most of the other buildings, even though a crooked Weirwood had burst up through the slate floor beside the huge central well.”

“Bran did not like the shadows either, or the huge brick ovens that surrounded them like open mouths, or the rusted meat hooks, or the scars and stains he saw in the butcher’s block along one wall. That was where the Rat Cook chopped the prince to pieces, he knew, and he baked the pie in one of these ovens.”

“The Rat Cook had cooked the son of the Andal king in a big pie with onions, carrots, mushrooms, lots of pepper and salt, a rasher of bacon, and a dark red Dornish wine. Then he served him to his father, who praised the taste and had a second slice. Afterward the gods transformed the cook into a monstrous White Rat who could only Eat his own Young.

I think the Rat Cook story is a representation of the most ancient tales about Weirwoods with Cotf in the roots, which is where Trees draw nourishment. They were called Children of the Forest, a synonym to that is Born of the Trees.
Ancient people coming upon a Weirwood cave and seeing Forest Children bound and interwoven in roots would naturally pass a story down about a monstrous White creature that seemed to Eat its own Children. This tale could have transformed, IMO, into the story of the Rat Cook, forever hungry, eating its young.

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Exactly my point, the story always seemed a bit off to me, it hit me during a re-read that there was a Weirwood in the kitchen at the Nightfort. Placing a Weirwood specifically in the Nightfort Kitchen led me to this theory, with subtle hints pointing the way.

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1 minute ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I won't discount it.  Tho the Frey pies make it seem like foreshadowing of some kind.

I believe most stories are foreshadowing future events in one way or another.  U have me curious now, do u think Manderly will be forced to eat his own children for breaking guest right?

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2 hours ago, Maester Debater said:

I believe most stories are foreshadowing future events in one way or another.  U have me curious now, do u think Manderly will be forced to eat his own children for breaking guest right?

More like it was to foreshadow the fate of the Freys departing White Harbor, because Wyman Manderly also praised the taste of the pie and had seconds. Wyman Manderly was very careful about not breaking guest rights.

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3 hours ago, Maester Debater said:

I believe most stories are foreshadowing future events in one way or another.  U have me curious now, do u think Manderly will be forced to eat his own children for breaking guest right?

Nah Manderlys gonna die soon, Frey might live to see his entire family he was so proud of the size of die though.

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21 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Nah Manderlys gonna die soon, Frey might live to see his entire family he was so proud of the size of die though.

I was thinking he had broken guest right with them, forgetting that he specifically gave them gifts, ending it, I think he will die soon as well, he had been stabbed, right? 

Frey House will be completely wiped out, IMO, Lord Walder could see it, I'd rather him get it sooner rather than later, in an appropriate way, like choking to death on liquid shit.

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51 minutes ago, Blackfyre Bastard said:

More like it was to foreshadow the fate of the Freys departing White Harbor, because Wyman Manderly also praised the taste of the pie and had seconds. Wyman Manderly was very careful about not breaking guest rights.

I was taking it as Rat Cook=Wyman for some reason, yes he is very careful, only eats from his own supply in Winterfell, cause he plans harm to Bolton, can't be his guest.

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24 minutes ago, Maester Debater said:

I was taking it as Rat Cook=Wyman for some reason, yes he is very careful, only eats from his own supply in Winterfell, cause he plans harm to Bolton, can't be his guest.

I am pretty sure all his taunts and japes were meant to provoke open battle within the halls of winterfell, which it almost did, without him breaking the guest right.  Now that Frey, Ramsey and Manderly troops outside the castle, who knows what may happen 

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3 minutes ago, Dorian Martell said:

I am pretty sure all his taunts and japes were meant to provoke open battle within the halls of winterfell, which it almost did, without him breaking the guest right.  Now that Frey, Ramsey and Manderly troops outside the castle, who knows what may happen 

Did not think about that, but I'm sure your right about that.

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47 minutes ago, Maester Debater said:

Did not think about that, but I'm sure your right about that.

The Frey violation of the guest right is why he he did what he did. He was forced to let them in his home because Tywin still had his Heir. Once His son was safely at white harbor he could act. He made a point of playing up how fat and slow he is and the Freys took the bait. He gave them departing gifts and sent them on their way. Then he shows up late to winterfell with no hostages but 3 huge meat pies that everyone loves. That is why he had mance play "The Rat Cook" after dinner 

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Anyway, everyone back to start position. 

The Rat Cook is a tale I believe to be passed down through the generations that was originally about the discovery of Weircaves. 

A Giant White Creature that Eats its Children is what Slaying a Guest under your roof turns u into, I didn't mention this in the OP, but Cotf in the roots also represents slaying a guest under your roof.

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14 hours ago, Maester Debater said:

I was thinking he had broken guest right with them, forgetting that he specifically gave them gifts, ending it, I think he will die soon as well, he had been stabbed, right? 

Frey House will be completely wiped out, IMO, Lord Walder could see it, I'd rather him get it sooner rather than later, in an appropriate way, like choking to death on liquid shit.

The book says that 3 of Wymans 4 chins were sliced open.  I take that to mean his fat flaps got cut but that is actual throat was safe.  Still a serious injury for an unhealthy older person to receive, and he is certainly still in WInterfell tho his men have left.

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On 2/3/2016 at 4:18 PM, Young Nan said:

I thought the Rat Cook story was foreshadowing/a hint about the Frey Pies.  

It does. But i think it represents Weir and Cotf as well. 

Large White Creature Eats its Children=Children of the Forest, with roots through their bodies.

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On 2.2.2016 at 9:39 PM, Maester Debater said:

All quotes from Storm, Bran IV.  At the Nightfort.

“The Reeds decided that they would sleep in the Kitchens, a stone octagon with a broken dome. It looked to offer better shelter than most of the other buildings, even though a crooked Weirwood had burst up through the slate floor beside the huge central well.”

“Bran did not like the shadows either, or the huge brick ovens that surrounded them like open mouths, or the rusted meat hooks, or the scars and stains he saw in the butcher’s block along one wall. That was where the Rat Cook chopped the prince to pieces, he knew, and he baked the pie in one of these ovens.”

“The Rat Cook had cooked the son of the Andal king in a big pie with onions, carrots, mushrooms, lots of pepper and salt, a rasher of bacon, and a dark red Dornish wine. Then he served him to his father, who praised the taste and had a second slice. Afterward the gods transformed the cook into a monstrous White Rat who could only Eat his own Young.

I think the Rat Cook story is a representation of the most ancient tales about Weirwoods with Cotf in the roots, which is where Trees draw nourishment. They were called Children of the Forest, a synonym to that is Born of the Trees.
Ancient people coming upon a Weirwood cave and seeing Forest Children bound and interwoven in roots would naturally pass a story down about a monstrous White creature that seemed to Eat its own Children. This tale could have transformed, IMO, into the story of the Rat Cook, forever hungry, eating its young.

 

This is excellent! I really think you've nailed it, it rings true and everything fits. Children of the Forest = Born of the Trees. The trees 'feeding' on their children. Perfect. The implications go way beyond Frey Pies. I've been studying some of the Nightfort's horror stories and am convinced they all provide clues to the origin of the Others. So far I've made some progress on Symeon-Star-Eyes and the Thing in the Night (you'll find an anlysis in these essays: The Making of a White Walker and Warging and Skinchanging, in case you're interested).

Allow me to speculate further. 
The tale implies that originally, the CotF had no powers of greenseeing - BR's statement regarding the eyes of those born with the gift also supports this idea - occasionally, one may be born with green or red eyes, and these have the gift. Specifically the gift of 'wedding the tree'.

So the Rat Cook is punished but at the same time (some of) his children receive a gift and this only comes about as a result of breaking a taboo - breaking guest right. This is quite in line with my findings on Varamyr who breaks some of the taboos of warging - he gains more power by doing this. We can infer that breaking taboos, committing an abomination, gives rise to more power, magical powers in particular. 

The question arises of what the Andal King or his son (or both) did to rouse the Rat Cook's wrath. Now, this is purely speculative but considering the tale of brave Danny Flint  who was raped by NWmen also takes place at the Nightfort, my guess would be that either the Prince or his father (or both) had their way with the Rat Cook's daughter. This seems a good choice, especially in view of Lyanna's alleged rape by Rhaegar. But there are also a few eye-witness accounts of daughters being raped in the narrative. Gregor Clegan comes to mind. He rapes the daughter of the Innkeep in front of her father, also Elia of course, with her brother Oberyn seeking revenge. Theon, who beds the captain's daughter - she's willing but she knows her father doesn't condone it - might also qualify. 

In a roundabout way, it also recalls Roose Bolton, whose wives and previous children mysteriously die. Arya pictures the new Lady Frey's future babies covered in 'plump pink leeches' - the bloodsucking leeches kind of mirror the trees feeding on the bound Children. Roose is left with Ramsay who has extra 'bad blood' but doesn't subscribe to leeching. Hm. He was also born of rape - the theme is the same. The miller didn't inform him of his wedding. Roose claims his lord's right to claim the woman. 

There's certainly more to all this. Great stuff. Thanks for sharing your insights!

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57 minutes ago, Evolett said:

 

This is excellent! I really think you've nailed it, it rings true and everything fits. Children of the Forest = Born of the Trees. The trees 'feeding' on their children. Perfect. The implications go way beyond Frey Pies. I've been studying some of the Nightfort's horror stories and am convinced they all provide clues to the origin of the Others. So far I've made some progress on Symeon-Star-Eyes and the Thing in the Night (you'll find an anlysis in these essays: The Making of a White Walker and Warging and Skinchanging, in case you're interested).

Allow me to speculate further. 
The tale implies that originally, the CotF had no powers of greenseeing - BR's statement regarding the eyes of those born with the gift also supports this idea - occasionally, one may be born with green or red eyes, and these have the gift. Specifically the gift of 'wedding the tree'.

So the Rat Cook is punished but at the same time (some of) his children receive a gift and this only comes about as a result of breaking a taboo - breaking guest right. This is quite in line with my findings on Varamyr who breaks some of the taboos of warging - he gains more power by doing this. We can infer that breaking taboos, committing an abomination, gives rise to more power, magical powers in particular. 

The question arises of what the Andal King or his son (or both) did to rouse the Rat Cook's wrath. Now, this is purely speculative but considering the tale of brave Danny Flint  who was raped by NWmen also takes place at the Nightfort, my guess would be that either the Prince or his father (or both) had their way with the Rat Cook's daughter. This seems a good choice, especially in view of Lyanna's alleged rape by Rhaegar. But there are also a few eye-witness accounts of daughters being raped in the narrative. Gregor Clegan comes to mind. He rapes the daughter of the Innkeep in front of her father, also Elia of course, with her brother Oberyn seeking revenge. Theon, who beds the captain's daughter - she's willing but she knows her father doesn't condone it - might also qualify. 

In a roundabout way, it also recalls Roose Bolton, whose wives and previous children mysteriously die. Arya pictures the new Lady Frey's future babies covered in 'plump pink leeches' - the bloodsucking leeches kind of mirror the trees feeding on the bound Children. Roose is left with Ramsay who has extra 'bad blood' but doesn't subscribe to leeching. Hm. He was also born of rape - the theme is the same. The miller didn't inform him of his wedding. Roose claims his lord's right to claim the woman. 

There's certainly more to all this. Great stuff. Thanks for sharing your insights!

Thank you very much for the kind words. I have a mistrust of all History, things get twisted over Millenia, which leads me to places alot aren't willing to see. The Cotf and Weirs, especially, all tales about them from the ancient days speak of trees wanting blood sacrifice.  Ygg, the Demon tree.  

I think BR Tree is a possible source of blood magic betrayal, magical experimentation took place here, evidenced by Wolf, Bear, Giant, and Humans skulls interwoven with roots, in niches carved in the stone, where only greenseers would be.  There is No other explanation imo, a human may be talked, or tricked into bonding the tree, but no animal, or Giant would willingly be bound in roots. 

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