Jump to content

What could have eddard expected if Brandon lived?


Tarellen

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

Yeah, Rickard and Lyarra are cousins. brandon and lyanna are siblings.

So you can see Jon must be very powerful.

It could amplify his natural ability to warg Ghost.  I'm not his fan, but it could be interesting to see him warg Wun Wundar Weg against Robert Strong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/2/2016 at 6:51 PM, King of the Narrow Sea said:

Making a bastard the Lord of the Gift instead of making an Umber, one of the various mountain clan lords, a Mormont, a Skaagosi, or a Karstark (all the families nearest the Gift and with the greatest interest in defending against wildlings), let alone over making one of the trueborn Starks it, would be an absolutely incredibly dumb move. The Gifts lands are huge, whoever's its lord would be enormously powerful. Making a bastard it's lord over all the other people who have a much better claim to the land is guaranteed offend everybody.

Jon was going to become some household guard, maybe a master-at-arms for somebody. At best maybe some landed knight with like 5 servants and a farm. Certainly not the Lord of the Gift lol.

If I was Ned, I might not make Jon (or Bran!) the Lord of the Gift - but I might give one of them Queenscrown and some supplies and men as part of the "first wave" anyways. Nobody will bat an eye at me giving such patronage to my children, especially if I make it clear that it's just the first wave of expansions and put out a call for other minor sons. I might make some kind of formal arrangement with the Watch, a 1-for-1 deal, where for each lordling created a lordling or knight joins the Watch. I can then put the call out to my lords who have spare heirs, and create a few holdfasts. They will have sizeable territories for minor keeps, but it will take a few generations for those territories to have any substantial population. Once they do, the Gift Lords - or Wall Marchers - will indeed by powerful second-tier lords. I think they'll be stronger than we'd imagine at first, because the Gift does have extensive and fairly productive lands (able to support the Watch when it had 10,000 men when only a fraction were hunting and gathering - imagine how many could be supported through even the most basic agriculture). Still, they'd be merely the equals of other Northern lords, which is hardly unfitting for the brother (Ned) or son (Bran) of the Lord of Winterfell. Jon would be getting a bit of a bump up - he's more likely a castellan to either Bran or Robb, or on the Wall. I think Ned might be Lord of Queenscrown while Benjen might go to the Wall anyways.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2 February 2016 at 7:13 AM, Tarellen said:

So let's say that Rickard and Brandon's exacuation never happened. Brandon marries cat as expected of him but eddard marries ashara dayne because to do right by her after he got her pregnant. So rickard dies a natrual death and Brandon according to westori law inherites the bulk of the estate. But what does eddard get? A ring a few tapestrys a lot of silver and a job from his brother? Or does he get a nice castle and a score of big fat manors to support himself and highborn wife?

Eddard gets to take the black in benjens place, Eddard gets the wall!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brandon and Ned loved each other as brothers. He probably would of given Eddard a large Keep, or Ned would live in Winterfell with Brandon. Ned's not the kind of man who cares about power. If he and Ashara lived happily ever after that would be what he wants. He'd also be Brandon's right hand man. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/2/2016 at 4:51 PM, King of the Narrow Sea said:

Making a bastard the Lord of the Gift instead of making an Umber, one of the various mountain clan lords, a Mormont, a Skaagosi, or a Karstark (all the families nearest the Gift and with the greatest interest in defending against wildlings), let alone over making one of the trueborn Starks it, would be an absolutely incredibly dumb move. The Gifts lands are huge, whoever's its lord would be enormously powerful. Making a bastard it's lord over all the other people who have a much better claim to the land is guaranteed offend everybody.

Jon was going to become some household guard, maybe a master-at-arms for somebody. At best maybe some landed knight with like 5 servants and a farm. Certainly not the Lord of the Gift lol.

I dont think the plan was ever to make Jon (or any of the Stark kids) THE Lord of the Gift, just A Lord in the Gift.

The gift is HUGE, it could easily be broken into numerous smaller plots for Stark kids or second sons of Bannermen/ Knights that the Starks wanted to reward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said:

He might have been Jon Arryn's heir. At least until he had a trueborn son again which didn't seem likely at the time.

jon has elbert arryn, denys arryn, harry the heir, plus branch houses of gulltown.

why would he name Ned as heir?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/5/2016 at 7:43 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

It could amplify his natural ability to warg Ghost.  I'm not his fan, but it could be interesting to see him warg Wun Wundar Weg against Robert Strong.

Given that Ghost was the stronger of the two in the bond (seriously, in AGOT and ACOK--Ghost is the one who pulls Jon around and gets him to take notice of things) until later on (after his dream with Bran), I kinda doubt that. Plus, Jon would be equally affected as much as Bran by having Rickard and Lyarra as Stark cousins for grandparents. And if we assume R+L=J, equally diluted of Stark warg blood via parents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

jon has elbert arryn, denys arryn, harry the heir, plus branch houses of gulltown.

why would he name Ned as heir?

He wouldn't. Elbert, Denys, Denys' Son, and Harold Hardyng are all in line.

Ned, if anything was likely sent to the Vale to keep the extended Stark family ties strong and at the very least reminding a few of the lords of their Stark heritage (Jocelyn Stark's descendants in the Waynwoods, Templetons, and Corbrays), as well as to be raised with Robert (perhaps hoping that such a friendship could provide Ned with a place to go--a place in his sister's future household by befriending his sister's future husband), and also keeping easy relations with the Vale and the Arryns in general.

Probably a mixture of many motives, to be honest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, purple-eyes said:

jon has elbert arryn, denys arryn, harry the heir, plus branch houses of gulltown.

why would he name Ned as heir?

 

1 hour ago, WhitewolfStark said:

He wouldn't. Elbert, Denys, Denys' Son, and Harold Hardyng are all in line.

Ned, if anything was likely sent to the Vale to keep the extended Stark family ties strong and at the very least reminding a few of the lords of their Stark heritage (Jocelyn Stark's descendants in the Waynwoods, Templetons, and Corbrays), as well as to be raised with Robert (perhaps hoping that such a friendship could provide Ned with a place to go--a place in his sister's future household by befriending his sister's future husband), and also keeping easy relations with the Vale and the Arryns in general.

Probably a mixture of many motives, to be honest.

None of those are direct sons and Harold isn't even born at the time. I just remember reading a theory that Ned could have been primed to marry an Arryn and enter the house. Also the Vale Lords seem to have held Eddard in high regard. This also includes that Elbert and Denys died in the war. Which they did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, WhitewolfStark said:

He wouldn't. Elbert, Denys, Denys' Son, and Harold Hardyng are all in line.

Ned, if anything was likely sent to the Vale to keep the extended Stark family ties strong and at the very least reminding a few of the lords of their Stark heritage (Jocelyn Stark's descendants in the Waynwoods, Templetons, and Corbrays), as well as to be raised with Robert (perhaps hoping that such a friendship could provide Ned with a place to go--a place in his sister's future household by befriending his sister's future husband), and also keeping easy relations with the Vale and the Arryns in general.

Probably a mixture of many motives, to be honest.

I could also see him basically doing what the Blackfish did (not necessarily run from a marriage), and becoming a Knight of the gate serving Jon Arryn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On February 3, 2016 at 0:57 AM, Arrow of the Morning said:

Not so much.

As a second son, he would inherit nothing, may be some chests with silver, in the best scenario, he would receive a keep and some few lands, not much more. His prospects of marriage would be limited. His friendship with Jon Arryn and Robert could give him some lands or a better prospect of marriage.

Really the Starks don't own enough to give second sons significant estates while still giving the bulk to the eldest. Aren't the Starks basicly royalty in the north?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

 

None of those are direct sons and Harold isn't even born at the time. I just remember reading a theory that Ned could have been primed to marry an Arryn and enter the house. Also the Vale Lords seem to have held Eddard in high regard. This also includes that Elbert and Denys died in the war. Which they did.

Harold was 18 years old when he appeared. Same age as aegon. 

So he was likely born in 281 or 282. 

So yeah, he was likely there or almost there when rebellion started.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, King Viserys Targaryen IV said:

I could also see him basically doing what the Blackfish did (not necessarily run from a marriage), and becoming a Knight of the gate serving Jon Arryn

You know I was more talking about what Ned could have expected from the family but you know what his friends could give him stuff to

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Tarellen said:

You know I was more talking about what Ned could have expected from the family but you know what his friends could give him stuff to

It is always good to have friends. lol

Hell, even Robert could have offered him a job at Storm's End.

I guess it all depends on what Brandon would have had in mind for him (whether he needed Ned to serve his family or if he would let Ned go do what ever he wanted to, and if Ned thought that Jon or Robert would have been better to serve than Brandon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Tarellen said:

You know I was more talking about what Ned could have expected from the family but you know what his friends could give him stuff to

I just think it's unlikely that Richard sends his son away as a wart and holding relationships with lots of young heirs or lords just to put him in some small castle in the middle of nowhere. I think Ned was suppose to be the Stark face in the south, the honorable one, the one you can trust, the not threading one, the one that makes contacts in the south to strength the north.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...