Lost Melnibonean Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1) Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. 2) A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. 3) From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . .Daenerys, IV, Clash Premise: The first vision in this slayer of lies little triplet of visions in the House of the Undying is very clearly an allusion to Stannis. The second is less clearly an allusion to Aegon. Both of these characters are claimants to the Iron Throne, so the third vision in the slayer of lies triplet of visions must allude to a third and final claimant to the Iron Throne. The only other current claimant is Euron... Quote I say we take it all! I say, we take Westeros! Aeron II, Feast The little bastard lion born of incest is not really a claimant since he's currently sitting on the Iron Throne, and Daenerys has not yet asserted her claim. Many believe that Jon will assert, or be compelled into asserting, a claim, and if he is, he could satisfy the third vision in the slayer of lies triplet. His claim could be true if he is not a bastard, in which case the lie to slay would be his false identity as Jon Snow, natural son of Eddard Stark and Wylla/Ashara/Fishwife from the Sisters. I had believed that Jon was the strongest candidate to be the stone beast based on the overall structure of all the visions presented in the House of the Undying, but I'm beginning to believe that the vision alludes to Euron. The stone beast vision has three metaphorical elements: 1) a smoking tower, 2) a great stone beast taking wing, and 3) breathing shadow fire. The smoking tower could be the sigil of House Hightower. Consider the description of Ser Abelar of House Hightower at the Ashford Tourney... Quote Ser Abelar in silver and smoke colors, a stone watchtower on his shield, crowned with fire; ... The Hedge Knight Next consider the Hightower itself... Quote The Hightowers can be legitimately referred to as being "of Hightower" or of "Oldtown," either one. Hightower is their castle/keep, the tallest structure in the Seven Kingdoms, and one of the oldest, a massive stepped tower with a great beacon on top, to show ships the way to port... kind of like the Pharos of Alexandria, but larger, an inhabited castle as well as a lighthouse. It stands in the center of Oldtown; the city grew up around it. SSM, The Arryns and the Hightower Apparently, Euron intends to sack Oldtown... Quote ...As the Cinnamon Wind was creeping past another plundered fishing village, a war galley came sliding from the fog, stroking slowly toward them. Huntress was the name she bore, To Sam's relief, they flew King Tommen's stag-and-lion banner above the stepped white tower of Oldtown, with its crown of flame. The captain of the Huntress was a tall man in a smoke-grey cloak with a border of red satin flames. ... My apologies, the captain said when his inspection was complete. "It grieves me that honest men must suffer such discourtesy, but sooner that than ironmen in Oldtown. Only a fortnight ago some of those bloody bastards captured a Tyroshi merchantman in the straits. They killed her crew, donned their clothes, and used the dyes they found to color their whiskers half a hundred colors. Once inside the walls they meant to set the port ablaze and open a gate from within whilst we fought the fire. Might have worked, but they ran afoul of the Lady of the Tower, and her oarsmaster has a Tyroshi wife. When he saw all the green and purple beards he hailed them in the tongue of Tyrosh, and not one of them had the words to hail him back." ... If King's Landing loses Oldtown and the Arbor, the whole realm will fall to pieces, he thought as he watched the Huntress and her sisters moving off. Samwell V, Feast Sacking Oldtown and the Hightower would satisfy the smoking tower element. What about the great stone beast taking wing? Euron himself could be described as a beast.Just ask Aeron (The sound of a door opening, the scream of a rusted iron hinge.) or Lord Osbert Serry. Also note the Hightower colors: grey and orange, with a stone watchtower. Euron is of House Greyjoy of the Iron Islands. And Euron claims, "I am the storm, my lord. The first storm and the last." --Victarion II, Feast. Stone, iron, storm--all three of those are typically grey. (Admittedly, though, the stone tower on the grey background of the Hightower sigil is white). Now consider Euron's discussion with Victarion when he sends Victarion to Slavers Bay... Quote "Perhaps we can fly. All of us. How will we ever know unless we leap from some tall tower?" Euron to Victarion in Victarion II, Feast And Euron is the Crow's Eye. In my mind that satisfies: from a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing. As I speculate below, we may have more... But first lets tackle the third element: breathing shadow fire, shadow and fire... Quote "IRONMEN, said Euron Greyjoy, you have heard my horn. Now hear my words. I am Balon's brother, Quellon's eldest living son. Lord Vickon's blood is in my veins, and the blood of the Old Kraken. Yet I have sailed farther than any of them. Only one living kraken has never known defeat. Only one has never bent his knee. Only one has sailed to Asshai by the Shadow, and seen wonders and terrors beyond imagining . . ." ... "That horn you heard I found amongst the smoking ruins that were Valyria, where no man has dared to walk but me. ..." Aeron II, Feast So, Euron claimed at the kingsmoot that he had traveled to Asshai by the Shadow and the ruins of Valyria, which, apparently, was destroyed by the Fourteen Flames. During that speech he did not claim to have visited any other lands. Thus, I would say that the breathing shadow fire element is satisfied. Now, we could see a little more fulfillment of this vision... Quote "I once held a dragons egg in this hand, brother. This Myrish wizard swore he could hatch it if I gave him a year and all the gold that he required. When I grew bored with his excuses, I slew him. As he watched his entrails sliding through his fingers he said, 'But it has not been a year.'"He laughed. ... "Show me this dragons egg." "I threw it in the sea during one of my dark moods." Euron gave a shrug. Victarion II, Feast It seems many of us believe that Euron did not throw the dragon's egg into the sea but sacrificed it to Him of Many Faces and prayed for a Faceless Man to give the gift to Balon. I have no doubt that Euron prayed for a Faceless Man to give the gift to his brother and that his prayer was answered. But I don't believe that he needed to sacrifice a dragon's egg. Presumably, the riches he accumulated while reaving around the known and unknown world would have left him with sufficient wealth to have his prayer answered without the dragon's egg. Perhaps he still has the dragon's egg. Perhaps his principal objective in Oldtown is the Citadel... Quote Tyrion had read much and more of dragons through the years. The greater part of those accounts were idle tales and could not be relied on, and the books that Illyrio had provided them were not the ones he might have wished for. What he really wanted was the complete text of The Fires of the Freehold, Galendro's history of Valyria. No complete copy was known to Westeros, however; even the Citadel's lacked twenty-seven scrolls. ... He was less hopeful concerning Septon Barth's Dragons, Wyrms, and Wyverns: Their Unnatural History. Barth had been a blacksmith's son who rose to be Kings Hand during the reign of Jaehaerys the Conciliator. His enemies always claimed he was more sorcerer than septon. Baelor the Blessed had ordered all Barth's writings destroyed when he came to the Iron Throne. Ten years ago, Tyrion had read a fragment of Unnatural History that had eluded the Blessed Baelor, ... . And of course there was even less chance of his coming on the fragmentary, anonymous, blood-soaked tome sometimes called Blood and Fire and sometimes The Death of Dragons, the only surviving copy of which was supposedly hidden away in a locked vault beneath the Citadel. Tyrion IV, Dance Assuming he did not toss his dragon's egg into the sea, perhaps Euron wants the same books Tyrion wants to learn if he can hatch a dragon. Euron hatching a dragon in Oldtown would satisfy all of three of the metaphorical elements, without question. On 9/27/2013 at 5:45 PM, bemused said: If the captain of the Myraham's story is true..it was a violent storm from the west ( the drection Euron was coming from ) That blew the whole bridge apart ... and if the FM was waiting on the bridge , he likely wouldn't have survived either. Good point. I have to admit I hadn't considered that before. And notice that the story came from the captain of the Myraham... Quote The Crow's Eye sipped from his silver cup. "I once held a dragon's egg in this hand, brother. This Myrish wizard swore he could hatch it if I gave him a year and all the gold that he required. When I grew bored with his excuses, I slew him. As he watched his entrails sliding through his fingers he said, But it has not been a year.'" He laughed. Victarion II, Feast Perhaps one or more of Euron's creatures had worked elemental sorcery to kill Balon. The woods witch's prophecy is still fulfilled and Euron either really did toss the egg into the sea or he still has it. Or maybe, just maybe, there is a fourth dragon out there growing and waiting for Euron to fetch him... ETA As noted down thread, Jon Snow, Jon Connington, and Tyrion Lannister are the best alternatives. As to Tyrion... He dreamt of his lord father and the Shrouded Lord. He dreamt that they were one and the same, and when his father wrapped stone arms around him and bent to give him his grey kiss, he woke with his mouth dry and rusty with the taste of blood and his heart hammering in his chest. ... "How long must I continue to torture myself? When will we be certain that I'm clean?" "Truly?" said the Halfmaester. "Never. You swallowed half the river. You may be going grey even now, turning to stone from inside out, starting with your heart and lungs. If so, pricking your toes and bathing in vinegar will not save you. When you're done, come have some broth." Tyrion VI, Dance 22 As so many others have pointed out elsewhere, Tyrion is often associated with gargoyles. So that would satisfy the stone beast, taking wing (his first victim or spread of the plague), and breathing shadow fire (death from Garin's kiss, especially since Haldon suggests his lungs might be diseased) elements, but what about the smoking tower and slayer of lies elements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I have noticed before that I think the price to hire a FM is higher than you do. For me, Eurons treasures would not have been enough. What Euron wants more than anything is power, and in that regard his dragon egg is worth more than all his treasure, so I believe that was their price. It is also conceivable that Jaqen/Pate/no one is looking for the book in Oldtown and that they are doing so because they know Euron is after it, or because they want it for themselves now that Dragons are back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said: I have noticed before that I think the price to hire a FM is higher than you do. For me, Eurons treasures would not have been enough. What Euron wants more than anything is power, and in that regard his dragon egg is worth more than all his treasure, so I believe that was their price. It is also conceivable that Jaqen/Pate/no one is looking for the book in Oldtown and that they are doing so because they know Euron is after it, or because they want it for themselves now that Dragons are back. OK, I have to admit I'm pretty reluctant to believe that we'll see more than Daenerys's three dragons. But even without a fourth dragon, I think Euron can satisfy the prophecy by sacking Oldtown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: OK, I have to admit I'm pretty reluctant to believe that we'll see more than Daenerys's three dragons. But even without a fourth dragon, I think Euron can satisfy the prophecy by sacking Oldtown. I think its a strong possibility, I'm not willing to rule out Jon Con due to his Greyscale though. A Griffen with Greyscale turning him into a stone man supporting a Blackfyre, spreading a plague, def fits as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Man Racey Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: It seems many of us believe that Euron did not throw the dragon's egg into the sea but sacrificed it to Him of Many Faces and prayed for a Faceless Man to give the gift to Balon. I have no doubt that Euron prayed for a Faceless Man to give the gift to his brother and that his prayer was answered. But I don't believe that he needed to sacrifice a dragon's egg. Presumably, the riches he accumulated while reaving around the known and unknown world would have left him with sufficient wealth to have his prayer answered without the dragon's egg. Perhaps he still has the dragon's egg. Perhaps his principal objective in Oldtown is the Citadel... That's not how the price to hire the FM works -- it's based off of what you have. From the wiki: Quote For a price, the guild will agree to kill anyone in the world, considering this contract to be a sacrament of their god. The price is always high or dear, but within the means of the person if they are willing to make the sacrifice. The cost of their services depends on the prominence and security of the target. When the small council discuss the possibility of hiring a Faceless Man to kill Daenerys Targaryen, Petyr Baelish states that the council could hire an army of sellswords for half the price that the Faceless Men would charge for a merchant, and that killing a princess would be far more expensive.[2] In A Dance with Dragons, it is revealed the price could be someone's income or a child. So the more you have, the more it costs. It's more about the ritual "sacrifice" to ensure that the killing means enough to you that you will part with something very dear to you than it is about static cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 31 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said: I think its a strong possibility, I'm not willing to rule out Jon Con due to his Greyscale though. A Griffen with Greyscale turning him into a stone man supporting a Blackfyre, spreading a plague, def fits as well. Yeah, I'd say Jon Snow, Jon Connington and Tyrion Lannister are the best candidates other than Euron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, Red Man Racey said: That's not how the price to hire the FM works -- it's based off of what you have. From the wiki: So the more you have, the more it costs. It's more about the ritual "sacrifice" to ensure that the killing means enough to you that you will part with something very dear to you than it is about static cost. And the sacrifice goes up with the status of the recipient of the gift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I don't buy the premise that the three visions allude to claimants to the Iron Throne. They allude to lies the slayer of lies is going to slay, and those lies don't seem to have anything to do with politics but rather with the prophesied savior department. Perhaps he will at one point if styles himself as a potential greenseer and/or the champion of humanity against the Others, but that most likely will not happen if he ever sacks or conquers Oldtown (not to mention that this would most likely also mark the beginning of the end of his campaign). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 5 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: I don't buy the premise that the three visions allude to claimants to the Iron Throne. They allude to lies the slayer of lies is going to slay, and those lies don't seem to have anything to do with politics but rather with the prophesied savior department. Perhaps he will at one point if styles himself as a potential greenseer and/or the champion of humanity against the Others, but that most likely will not happen if he ever sacks or conquers Oldtown (not to mention that this would most likely also mark the beginning of the end of his campaign). I hear ya, but I still think we can assume, and I realize this is just an assumption, that the three lies she must slay are the three false claims to the Iron Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolett Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I have similar thoughts about that part of the prophecy and like the arguments you present for Euron. I think you're right, with the exception of one thing: the dragon breathing shadow fire does not represent a real dragon, as in one of Dany's dragons. Shadow fire implies fire that is not real, the ghost of a proper fire, like the sword the Other carries: There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges. Whatever he did with that dragon egg, I'm certain he had no use for it. My suspicion: the dragon breathing shadow fire is a representation of the Others. Euron’s current look – the blue smiling eye and his red-patched one mirror Bloodraven and Bran, both powerful greenseers. Shade of the evening is a psychoactive drink from a tree with inverted weirwood imagery and which causes similar sensations as weirwood paste. He’s drinking an awful lot of it and I believe its effects are comparable with weirwood paste. Weirwood paste weds Bran to the tree and though Dany drank shade of the evening to experience visions, this occurred after her dragons had hatched, so I doubt the elixir has anything to do with ‘waking the dragon’ or hatching dragons. Euron’s ship is called Silence – he’s also cut the tongues of his crew – they are all mutes, also recalling the Others whose thralls, the wights, do not speak. Then there are the captured warlocks, one of whom he killed and forced the others to eat. Cannibalism is an abomination Haggon warned against and though we are not told, it’s possible that this taboo may allow the breaker to seize a human(oid) body. I think Euron is preparing for the role of a greenseer and aims to control the white walkers with these powers. We know he sailed as far as Asshai and the likelihood that he learned secrets pertaining to the Others (think of the spreading ghost grass) is high. Daenerys, then would be his ‘Night’s Queen’. Perhaps he’s going all out and aims for a real dragon as well but I suspect Vicatrion will thwart those plans. With the Others and a wight army under his control, taking Westeros will be a piece of cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpoke Martin Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The slayer of lies bit is not about all 3 being lies but the finding out which ones are the lies. 1) Stannis as AA, Mel made the claim but is clearly misinterpreting the signs. 2) Aegon as TPTWP, Rhaegar made the claim but was clearly wrong as he first thought it was himself and then Aegon. 3) Jon Snow as TPTWP. Who will make this claim is anyone's guess, it could possibly even be Bloodraven. This is the one not yet introduced to readers and will end up being true. I believe that Dany being AA is also misunderstood and all the prophecy nonsense she is being pushed towards will lead to Dany killing Aegon and any claim that he may have been a prophesied savior. Dany being unveiled as AA will also disprove Stannis' claim, not sure if they will go to war in this scenario. Finally once more Dany will try to disprove Jon Snow by going to war against him and his army of blue eyed demons only to lose and for readers to find out that Dany was one of the lies all along. I'm probably wrong and I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 43 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: I hear ya, but I still think we can assume, and I realize this is just an assumption, that the three lies she must slay are the three false claims to the Iron Throne. The problem I see with that is that legal claims are very bad subjects for prophecy. I mean, are we supposed to believe that the supernatural realm/destiny/god who ever created that visions/prophecies actually cares about 'the rightful king of Westeros'? If so, then Dany being the slayer of lies and slaying the false pretenders actually means that fate/destiny has decided/decreed that she is the rightful queen of Westeros. If that's the case, then fate/destiny knows more than Martin or we because we both know that the succession laws aren't clear so, you know, fate/destiny could foretell us that Dany will sit the Iron Throne, but not that she is 'the rightful queen' (which is implied if she is going to slay all the false kings). That Dany's claim to the throne is not the subject of any of the Undying prophecies at all is also pretty clear because no vision or prophecy ever indicates that she will become a queen or sit on the Iron Throne. More importantly, Euron certainly has no claim to the Iron Throne at all. Him trying to take it by conquest isn't going to be 'a lie' in any meaningful sense. He won't lie about his intention nor his identity in anything relating to the Iron Throne. While there is a good chance that Dany will actually have to deal personally with Euron and Aegon, there is a good chance that Stannis will be dealt with by the Others or the Boltons or winter. My guess is that the three lies are all persons claiming to be the savior (be it the promised prince, a reborn Azor Ahai, or whatever) and that Dany is making an end to all those false claims which lead her people ever more down the wrong path and towards doom and death rather than to victory over the Others. The idea that anything else is important enough to be the subject of such important prophecies as those from the House of the Undying makes little sense to me. Dany's visit there certainly took place on an entirely different level than all those 'mundane prophecies' about the deaths of kings and stuff that came up in ASoS. But I'm still not sure that the shadow beast breathing shadow fire is Euron. The blue-eyed king without a shadow and the cloth dragon in front of cheering crowd seem to mostly embody individuals in a certain situation (Stannis being drained of his lifeforce by Melisandre to create shadow assassins; Aegon VI cheered by a huge crowd when he is crowned in KL). Euron is difficult to imagine as this guy. He isn't a beast, he has little to nothing to with shadows or fire, and he isn't flying off some tower (not even symbolically). As to Euron's dragon egg: We have no reason to believe that he ever owned such an egg. Where should he have found one? Why did he throw it away? In my opinion, Euron only talked about dragon eggs because he knew from Pyat Pree that Daenerys Targaryen had three dragon eggs and hatched them. He wants those dragons, and to convince people that they are real he also also talk about dragon eggs. But a man like Euron would never have thrown away such an egg. He lied about going to Valyria, and he could easily have lied about that, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhail Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I think its symbolism for Jon connigton spreading greyscale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 6 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: 1) Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. 2) A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. 3) From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . .Daenerys, IV, Clash Premise: The first vision in this slayer of lies little triplet of visions in the House of the Undying is very clearly an allusion to Stannis. The second is less clearly an allusion to Aegon. Both of these characters are claimants to the Iron Throne, so the third vision in the slayer of lies triplet of visions must allude to a third and final claimant to the Iron Throne. The only other current claimant is Euron... Aeron II, Feast The little bastard lion born of incest is not really a claimant since he's currently sitting on the Iron Throne, and Daenerys has not yet asserted her claim. Many believe that Jon will assert, or be compelled into asserting, a claim, and if he is, he could satisfy the third vision in the slayer of lies triplet. His claim could be true if he is not a bastard, in which case the lie to slay would be his false identity as Jon Snow, natural son of Eddard Stark and Wylla/Ashara/Fishwife from the Sisters. I had believed that Jon was the strongest candidate to be the stone beast based on the overall structure of all the visions presented in the House of the Undying, but I'm beginning to believe that the vision alludes to Euron. The stone beast vision has three metaphorical elements: 1) a smoking tower, 2) a great stone beast taking wing, and 3) breathing shadow fire. The smoking tower could be the sigil of House Hightower. Consider the description of Ser Abelar of House Hightower at the Ashford Tourney... The Hedge Knight Next consider the Hightower itself... SSM, The Arryns and the Hightower Apparently, Euron intends to sack Oldtown... Samwell V, Feast Sacking Oldtown and the Hightower would satisfy the smoking tower element. What about the great stone beast taking wing? Euron himself could be described as a beast.Just ask Aeron (The sound of a door opening, the scream of a rusted iron hinge.) or Lord Osbert Serry. Also note the Hightower colors: grey and orange, with a stone watchtower. Euron is of House Greyjoy of the Iron Islands. And Euron claims, "I am the storm, my lord. The first storm and the last." --Victarion II, Feast. Stone, iron, storm--all three of those are typically grey. (Admittedly, though, the stone tower on the grey background of the Hightower sigil is white). Now consider Euron's discussion with Victarion when he sends Victarion to Slavers Bay... Euron to Victarion in Victarion II, Feast And Euron is the Crow's Eye. In my mind that satisfies: from a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing. As I speculate below, we may have more... But first lets tackle the third element: breathing shadow fire, shadow and fire... Aeron II, Feast So, Euron claimed at the kingsmoot that he had traveled to Asshai by the Shadow and the ruins of Valyria, which, apparently, was destroyed by the Fourteen Flames. During that speech he did not claim to have visited any other lands. Thus, I would say that the breathing shadow fire element is satisfied. Now, we could see a little more fulfillment of this vision... Victarion II, Feast It seems many of us believe that Euron did not throw the dragon's egg into the sea but sacrificed it to Him of Many Faces and prayed for a Faceless Man to give the gift to Balon. I have no doubt that Euron prayed for a Faceless Man to give the gift to his brother and that his prayer was answered. But I don't believe that he needed to sacrifice a dragon's egg. Presumably, the riches he accumulated while reaving around the known and unknown world would have left him with sufficient wealth to have his prayer answered without the dragon's egg. Perhaps he still has the dragon's egg. Perhaps his principal objective in Oldtown is the Citadel... Tyrion IV, Dance Assuming he did not toss his dragon's egg into the sea, perhaps Euron wants the same books Tyrion wants to learn if he can hatch a dragon. Euron hatching a dragon in Oldtown would satisfy all of three of the metaphorical elements, without question. Good point. I have to admit I hadn't considered that before. And notice that the story came from the captain of the Myraham... Victarion II, Feast Perhaps one or more of Euron's creatures had worked elemental sorcery to kill Balon. The woods witch's prophecy is still fulfilled and Euron either really did toss the egg into the sea or he still has it. Or maybe, just maybe, there is a fourth dragon out there growing and waiting for Euron to fetch him... Not bad. Not bad. Definitely interesting. You know, if there is a snow ball's chance in hell that he can hatch a dragon, he need not rely on an FM to kill his older brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share Posted June 6, 2016 On 2/3/2016 at 2:10 PM, Lost Melnibonean said: OK, I have to admit I'm pretty reluctant to believe that we'll see more than Daenerys's three dragons. But even without a fourth dragon, I think Euron can satisfy the prophecy by sacking Oldtown. Oh bother... the new Aeron chapter Spoiler suggests that Euron will not sack Oldtown afterall. But since nothing is etched in oily black stone just yet, I think the theory survives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 27 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Oh bother... the new Aeron chapter Reveal hidden contents suggests that Euron will not sack Oldtown afterall. But since nothing is etched in oily black stone just yet, I think the theory survives. Why are you going around pointing out how your own theories are less plausible now? Have you learned nothing from Trump? Never admit weakness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon_Tor Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 I wonder if anyone has thought to think whether the Stone Beast/Smoking Tower/Shadow Fire represents something that has already happened at the time of the HotU? Several of the other visions are of things that had already happened at that point. Not sure what that might be, but I just wanted to get the ball rolling here. Tower of Joy? Jon (or Dany according to some) was born in the tower. "Shadow Fire" might suggest he (or she) is not a Targaryen after all. I vaguely recall a crackpot about the father of Daenerys is Arthur Dayne thought I don't remember what the evidence for it was besides the "Ser Dayne" anagram. Doesn't fit "smoking" tower (unless Ned burned it, as assumed by some) and why is the beast "stone"? Perhaps Harrenhall? Something really weird was/is going on with Harrenhall. Blood in the mortar, weirwood timbers, built overlooking the God's Eye, Aegon deciding to invade Westeros the literal day it was completed, etc. Fits a smoking tower, but what is the beast taking wing from it? Did one of Harren's heirs survive? Are there characters descended from House Hoare manipulating stuff in Westeros to this day? Does this have anything to do with Craster and his "Black Blood" perhaps connecting him to Lord Commander Hoare? House Whent is a newish house with bats as their sigil and a connection to Harrenhall, and they seem to hold the record for control of the castle. Pure speculation, obviously. Not before the HotU, but the Tower of the Hand burned by Cercei. Was it just madness that made her do it? What might have been IN that tower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon_Tor Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 2 hours ago, Damon_Tor said: Perhaps Harrenhall? Something really weird was/is going on with Harrenhall. Blood in the mortar, weirwood timbers, built overlooking the God's Eye, Aegon deciding to invade Westeros the literal day it was completed, etc. Fits a smoking tower, but what is the beast taking wing from it? Did one of Harren's heirs survive? Are there characters descended from House Hoare manipulating stuff in Westeros to this day? Does this have anything to do with Craster and his "Black Blood" perhaps connecting him to Lord Commander Hoare? House Whent is a newish house with bats as their sigil and a connection to Harrenhall, and they seem to hold the record for control of the castle. Pure speculation, obviously. Okay, this has been eating at me since I posted it, and it... it feels so right to me. New thread for it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share Posted June 6, 2016 8 hours ago, dmc515 said: Why are you going around pointing out how your own theories are less plausible now? Have you learned nothing from Trump? Never admit weakness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Scribe of Naath Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 @Lost Melnibonean I don't know if we can assume that the three "lies" Dany needs to slay are three claimants to the Iron Throne - it goes more like: - Stannis calls himself Azor Ahai, Dany "slays" the lie by virtue of her being AA (and obviously defeats him) - Faegon calls himself son of Rheagar and a true Targ, Dany slays his lie because obviously, she is a true Targ I used to be on the same page as you earlier (thinking Jon was the stone beast breathing shadow fire) but now I think we can't really predict this one until it happens. It's like Dany's three betrayals - we know the first one for sure, second we can guess, third no idea at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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