What's up with Anguy and Edrik?

[Shuvuuia]

7 minutes ago, LongRider said:

 

I looked in AFFC for where it's noted that Edric left the BWB but can't find one.  Where is that mentioned?   Thanks!

 

In the appendix they are listed separately, under Beric's name, not under Stoneheart's. So it is assumed that at least Edric left, and as Anguy seems to like him and is from neighbour region, it is possible that they move together.

[Dorian Martell]

On 2/5/2016 at 8:59 AM, aryagonnakill#2 said:

No.  GRRM said Jeyne will be in the prologue of Winds, no more detail than that.

So, she is going to die.

[LongRider]

Thanks Shuvuuia, I see.  The appendix perpetrates the outlaws under Beric's group and LS's group.  Under Beric, all we know of the outlaws listed, was that the Mad Huntsman and Greenbeard were sent away by Beric. 

In Storm after Arya is captured by Tom, Anguy and Lem, they travel quite a ways and come in contact with many small folk before they find Beric in the Hollow Hill.  So Edric, and Anguy, and others could have many places to hide in the RL.  Certainly they could have gone their separate ways from LS.

The appendix also lists the those at the old crossroads inn, Gendry, Jayne and Willow Heddle among others.  Gendry accompanies Brienne part of the way to LS and Jayne goes to the cave with Bri.  They aren't listed under LS but they at least to seem part of the group, or extended group might be a better description. 

Thoros says the Brotherhood is broken, true, but Edric has become an outlaw whether he meant to or not.  Starfall is a long starving way from the Riverlands, so I for one don't see him traveling there after Beric dies, how could he have the means? 

So his current whereabouts are a mystery, but it seems that he would still be in the Riverlands.  Beric is still wanted, and I would think his squire would be wanted as well, so it would be dangerous for Edric to travel and be known as Beric's squire.  Hmmm, perhaps he's with Anguy, wherever he is.

[Shuvuuia]

2 minutes ago, Dorian Martell said:

So, she is going to die.

I thought she is just supposed to be in the prologue, but whether she is a PoV is unknown  (plus who knows, maybe female prologue PoVs survive). Personally I want Thoros for prologue PoV - he is a goner anyway and could give some insight not only on the Riverlands and Stoneheart, but also some info on R'hllorism that would be important for future Melisandre's (and maybe Dany's) chapters, and thus Mels chapters won't be too heavy on exposition. but because he likely doesn't know many things it won't reveal everything.

[Shuvuuia]

18 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Thoros says the Brotherhood is broken, true, but Edric has become an outlaw whether he meant to or not.  Starfall is a long starving way from the Riverlands, so I for one don't see him traveling there after Beric dies, how could he have the means? 

So his current whereabouts are a mystery, but it seems that he would still be in the Riverlands.  Beric is still wanted, and I would think his squire would be wanted as well, so it would be dangerous for Edric to travel and be known as Beric's squire.  Hmmm, perhaps he's with Anguy, wherever he is.

But Beric is hunted mainly in the Riverlands. And Freys and Lannisters are starting to take control of the situation with Starks out of picture (at least so it would seem to the people in universe), plus winter is coming, maybe Edric decides it is better to take his chances now, because later it won't be possible and Riverlands would get more and more dangerous. Lord of Starfall is never mentioned, I think, among the wanted men, so it is unknown if Beric's squire's identity is a common knowledge. If they move out of the immediate war zone, they could find a place in a merchant train heading to the Marches (Anguy as a superb archer would always find a job). Or one of the Riverlands lords who sympathizes with the bwb can help to organize an escort (Lady Smallwood?).  Of course Edric can just stay with Lady Smalwood or something, pretend he is her son.

 

(I think Gendry and the Heddles are not listed because appendix is supposed to have information we should know before starting the current book, without plot-important spoilers, so Gendry is a surprise when we read the Feast. Maybe in the Winds they would be in the Stonehearts group. Maybe information on Edric and Anguy will change, thanks to the "gardener approach".)

 

[LongRider]

Gendry is listed in the appendix, in the group before Beric's is mentioned.  The heading is Lordlings, Wanderers, and Common Men under the sub-heading --at the old crossroads inn.  

The issue with Edric, we don't know where he is, there is no evidence that he has left the RL, or even wants to.  As Beric's squire, it could safely be assumed that he would be wanted as an outlaw, just as the others are.  When Gendry was knighted by Beric, Lem tells him:

Quote

"You must be a lackwit, boy," said Lem. "We're outlaws. Lowborn scum, most of us, excepting his lordship. Don't think it'll be like Tom's fool songs neither. You won't be stealing no kisses from a princess, nor riding in no tourneys in stolen armor. You join us, you'll end with your neck in a noose, or your head mounted up above some castle gate."

This applies to Edric as well.  So if the BWB has split up, they are still outlaws and still wanted.  Beric was sent to hunt Gregor by Ned Stark, he's a knight, his squire is known and was expected to go with him.  I wouldn't assume Edric isn't unknown as Beric's squire or that his presence with the outlaws wasn't noted. 

[sweetsunray]

9 hours ago, Arrow of the Morning said:

They probably are not in the Brotherhood Without Banners anymore. After Stoneheart took the leadership, the group is no more protecting the smallfolk and seeking justice, but just assassinating people that LSH think is involved in the Red Wedding. 

Probably Ned took Ser Beric's bones and went to bury them in Blackhaven and returned to Starfall. May be Anguy is with him.

The idea Edric formed his own brotherhood is tempting, a lot of members of the BWB are missing, like Greenbeard and the Mad Huntsman, but while we heard about Beric and Lady Stoneheart in Feast, we heard nothing about a third outlaw leader in the Riverlands. 

Actually the BwB hunts down the remainder of the Bloody Mummers. And with the smallfolk staying mum to Opengate Amy I'd say the smallfolk is still very much behind the BwB; You think they would stay mum or even spy for the BwB if they weren't helped by them? We have Lem's job being watching the inn, where Gendry is the smith and non-adult guard, the children have crossbows and other weapons, and the sparrows delivering the orphans. Both Lem and Gendry are BwB, so is Jeyne Hedding. So, you are completely incorrect if you claim that BwB with Stoneheart are only after revenge and do not protect the smallfolk or stop seeking justice. And hanging Freys for crimes is still a form of justice.

Edric Dayne is LORD of Starfall, but he was also the squire of Lord Beric. As long as Beric lived, Edric was bound to his squire's honor to Lord Beric. Once he was dead, he is honor bound to return home to Starfall and to his aunt whose betrothed had died. Edric wasn't with the BwB because he believed in the cause of the BwB, but because he was Beric's squire. Anguy might have accompanied back.

[LongRider]

2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

~~~~snip~~~~

Edric Dayne is LORD of Starfall, but he was also the squire of Lord Beric. As long as Beric lived, Edric was bound to his squire's honor to Lord Beric. Once he was dead, he is honor bound to return home to Starfall and to his aunt whose betrothed had died. Edric wasn't with the BwB because he believed in the cause of the BwB, but because he was Beric's squire. Anguy might have accompanied back.

While Edric is Lord of Starfall, we do not have any thing to base his whereabouts on.  What we do have, is Thoros telling Bri that the brotherhood is broken, and the appendix splitting the groups.  Certainly the smallfolk were supportive of the BWB, and following Arya's RL chapters this really comes out.  However, helping Edric leave the BWB and run away back home to Starfall might be a different story. 

He's an outlaw now, whether he wanted to be or no.  He may want to go back to Starfall, but the wanting and the being able to do so as a wanted outlaw, well, that's two different things.  A Lannister banner man might not make much of Edric being Lord of Starfall when he spent the last several months with the BWB.  His recent history may matter more to them that his origins.  Edric believing in the BWB's cause really doesn't matter, as he was full member of the outlaw band.

[Shuvuuia]

27 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Gendry is listed in the appendix, in the group before Beric's is mentioned.  The heading is Lordlings, Wanderers, and Common Men under the sub-heading --at the old crossroads inn.  

The issue with Edric, we don't know where he is, there is no evidence that he has left the RL, or even wants to.  As Beric's squire, it could safely be assumed that he would be wanted as an outlaw, just as the others are.  When Gendry was knighted by Beric, Lem tells him:

This applies to Edric as well.  So if the BWB has split up, they are still outlaws and still wanted.  Beric was sent to hunt Gregor by Ned Stark, he's a knight, his squire is known and was expected to go with him.  I wouldn't assume Edric isn't unknown as Beric's squire or that his presence with the outlaws wasn't noted. 

I agree that so far Edric's whereabouts are speculation, but I think that Riverlands (and maybe Blackhaven) are more dangerous for him, so he could want to get out of there. If he is in the stormlands in the good desguise, he could be just another peasant/merchant, in the Dorne he is likely safe (from Lannisters). Pod follows Brienne just ok for some time, despite his age and Edric won't be alone. 

And an underage squire would't necessarily noticed by not-bwb people like Frey's or Lannister soldiers, we don't know if the Lannister "authority" knows about him/that he was with Beric - when  in one of Sansa's chapters Joffrey "summons" Beric and Thoros to pledge him allegiance, Edric isn't mentioned . 

[LongRider]

But the Lannister's did know, Sansa got up early to watch Beric and party ride out:

Quote

 

The next morning she woke before first light and crept sleepily to her window to watch Lord Beric form up his men. They rode out as dawn was breaking over the city, with three banners going before them; the crowned stag of the king flew from the high staff, the direwolf of Stark and Lord Beric's own forked lightning standard from shorter poles.

 

Later, Tywin to Tyrion:  

Quote

"Do you?" Lord Tywin did not seem awed. "We also have a pair of Ned Stark's afterthoughts making a nuisance of themselves by harassing my foraging parties. Beric Dondarrion, some young lordling with delusions of valor. He has that fat jape of a priest with him, the one who likes to set his sword on fire. Do you think you might be able to deal with them as you scamper off? Without making too much a botch of it?"

Tyrion wiped his mouth with the back of his hand and smiled. "Father, it warms my heart to think that you might entrust me with … what, twenty men? Fifty? Are you sure you can spare so many? Well, no matter. If I should come across Thoros and Lord Beric, I shall spank them both."

 

 

The quotes focus on Beric and Thoros that's true, but Sansa couldn't be the only one watching the party leave.   And Tywin wants Beric and Thoros dead, and that would include the band.  Edric doesn't have to be known as Beric's squire or as the Lord of Starfall to be wanted as an outlaw.  He was with them, he could be identified as being with them, and ultimately, that's what matters. 

 

The smallfolk protect, house and feed the members of the BWB, and the BWB know where to find them.  It seems that the Riverlands might offer a safer place with the smallfolk that traveling on to Starfall. 

 

[HexMachina]

3 hours ago, LongRider said:

 

I looked in AFFC for where it's noted that Edric left the BWB but can't find one.  Where is that mentioned?   Thanks!

 

edt:  Beric told the Hound that the Mad Huntsman and Greenbeard were sent to the Mander to buy food with the gold they took from him.

After Arya, Gendry and Hotpie were captured by Tom O'7, Angy and Lem they travel around the Riverlands looking for Beric.  Everywhere they go, the three outlaws are known and recognized as part of the BWB by small folk.  The smallfolk are there main means of intel and what is happening in RL.  After they visit the GoHH, Tom and Arya have this conversation:

 

I think it might be in the appendices?

[sweetsunray]

1 minute ago, LongRider said:

While Edric is Lord of Starfall, we do not have any thing to base his whereabouts on.  What we do have, is Thoros telling Bri that the brotherhood is broken, and the appendix splitting the groups.  Certainly the smallfolk were supportive of the BWB, and following Arya's RL chapters this really comes out.  However, helping Edric leave the BWB and run away back home to Starfall might be a different story. 

He's an outlaw now, whether he wanted to be or no.  He may want to go back to Starfall, but the wanting and the being able to do so as a wanted outlaw, well, that's two different things.  A Lannister banner man might not make much of Edric being Lord of Starfall when he spent the last several months with the BWB.  His recent history may matter more to them that his origins.  Edric believing in the BWB's cause really doesn't matter, as he was full member of the outlaw band.

The interpretation of Thoros saying the brotherhood is broken is various. He does not say "split", nor even "broken up". The later would be the wording used to indicate a split into ideological factions. Simply "broken" seems to imply the broken of the speech of "broken men". That the BwB's spirit has been broken. Thoros himself sounds "broken". If there was actually an ideological faction split it makes little sense that Thoros would even remain with LS. Hence, I consider the BwB still as one organisation, not as split into rivalling factions.

The appendix splits the whores of the Peach and Sharna of the Inn of the Kneeling Man separately too, and yet we know they are part of the BwB network, one more cover than the other. It appears that solely the actual warriors, fighters and knights are split up between Beric and LS. Those under Beric are the ones we have not seen in aFfC with LS. Note also that Edric Dayne's identification says he is Beric's squire, whereas others get the specific explanation of "outlaw". 

I agree that Edric Dayne's journey back to Starfall is a very hazardous journey. But so would have been Greenbear's to buy food. He may not have gone overland even. Or the sparrows might have helped him. All we know for a fact is that he is not with the BwB under LS. The rest is speculation. Given the little of his honorable character we've seen from him, I suspect he felt himself honor-bound to Starfall and his aunt, over the BwB once Beric was dead, and that his presence with the BwB was purely because of his honor and loyalty feelings to Beric himself. I suspect that it does not even matter whether the new leader is LS. He simply is not honor bound as a squire to anybody else but Beric. I doubt his aunt or Starfall or Dorne care about him serving Lord Beric while Lord Beric fought against lions in the RL. But you raise valid points, and there's a good chance he never made it out.

[LongRider]

I agree he's not honor bound to stay with the BWB.  It's interesting that the appendix lists Tom O'7s under LS, but he shows up at RR with that Frey fellow then stays in RR after Jaime breaks the siege. 

So is Tom still with LS and a spy in RR?  (I hope he is) If so, could Anguy be with the archers escorting Edmure to captivity?  I hope he is as well, but I don't know and it's speculation. 
Thoros tells Bri several things

Quote

 

"We were king's men when we began," the man told her, "but king's men must have a king, and we have none. We were brothers too, but now our brotherhood is broken. I do not know who we are, if truth be told, nor where we might be going. I only know the road is dark. The fires have not shown me what lies at its end." ...

"You ride with the Dondarrion. The lightning lord."

"Lightning comes and goes and then is seen no more. So too with men. Lord Beric's fire has gone out of this world, I fear. A grimmer shadow leads us in his place."

 

What I find interesting, is that while the appendix splits up the groups, apparently Thoros does not, or doesn't discuss a clear split.  ie; "We were brothers too, but now our brotherhood is broken." may have some ambiguity to it, but a interpretation of the band splitting up would be a valid one from what he's said.  On the other hand, if the BWB hasn't split, then leaving it may be more difficult than one might surmise.  Edric could still be with them.

[sweetsunray]

Yup, my bet is on Tom being an infiltrant, first with the Frey who later ends up hanged and whose whore he gave Robb's crown that is now in LS's hands. Next, he takes his residence in RR. I would bet on it that he'll let disguised BwB in and open the gates when the time is right. Tom is also the one left by Jaime to sing to Edmure when Edmure is given time to overthink Jaime's threats. Some of Jaime's squires are present there too, but at least two most probably are cooperative with any resistance (Vance and Piper), including the BwB, because in aSoS we learn that the maester of one of the Vance houses is a BwB contact to get more info on this wedding at the Twins. Anyway, the next day Edmure goes into RR, stays inside until the ultimatum is near, surrenders RR and the Blackfish has escaped. What are the odds, huh? Tom most likely improvized some floppy and black fish song hinting at a plan, that Edmure, Vance and Piper would have understood, but Jaime's non hostage squire probably not.

[LongRider]

Edmure had no love for Tom and his "Floppy Fish" song.  Funny, but the Blackfish swam away sometime after Tom sat with Edmure during his bath and Tom gets to spend the winter in the castle. (Jaime helped with that to be sure, but it looks like he was manipulated into thinking he was helping Tom more than he was) Queen of Whores may very well be an BWB friendly and/or spy as well and could be alive. 

All this doesn't really give any insight to Anguy or Edric tho, more's the pity. 

[sweetsunray]

Nope, Edmure had no love for it. He was absolutely aghast when he realized who the singer was that Jaime left himwith. Must have been funny to see Edmure realize that Tom was singing about a plan to help them.

No, it doesn't give insight on the whereabouts of Anguy and Edric, but it reveals that George is giving us a false and completely underestimated impression about the BwB - "broken", "split up", "only hanging Freys", "real outlaw gangsters" - as well as the RL - Freys and Lannisters are in control now.

[LongRider]

To get another perspective, a look at the epiloge of ASOS offers some insights. Merrett Frey travels to Oldstones to pay the ransom for his 'great-half nephew' Petyr Frey.  When he gets to Oldstones, the identified outlaws are Tom O'7s, by name, Lem by his cloak, one-eyed Jack (be Lucky) by name and Notch by name.  Merrett's count of them was 'a dozen at least, maybe a score.'  So an estimate of 12 to 20 men. 

He asked about Dondarrion and Tom tells him "My lord, sad to say, Lord Beric was needed elsewhere.  Times are troubled and there are many battles to fight."  A slick way of telling Merret that Beric won't be with them, but not mentioning that he's dead. 

This chapter shows the split mentioned in the appendix of the next book.   In the group that meets Merret there is Tom, Lem, Jack-be-Lucky and Notch.  There is no mention of any one aiming a bow at Merret, so I would say that Anguy wasn't there.  Of course, at the end of the chapter, we meet the Lady Stoneheart, the undead Catelyn Stark.

GRRM puts a few gems in the chapter as well.  When Merrett first sees Petyr hanging he thinks 'Mother have mercy' and of course, Mother Mercy is one of LS's name.  Merret also mentions that during the RW, "Jared's son...someone smashed his head in with an ax."   Oh, that would be Sandor Clegane who when fighting at the Twins took the ax off of one Frey and killed another Frey with it. 

So it does seem the group is split and Thoros is unhappy.  How all that will pan out remains to be seen. 

 

[sweetsunray]

I would not conclude from it that there is an ideological split. From before meeting Beric himself, we learn that the BwB are functionally split into bands. Greenbeard is one such band that arrives at the Inn of the Kneeling Man of Sharna. There is also a short passage during Arya's voyage through the RL with them that they confer with another group of fighters, and one of them is wearing a fake Dondarrion blazon pretending to be Beric. Basically, they've always used split groups across the RL. That way, if one group gets arrested and into trouble, nobody can betray the other members. They don't even know really who the other members are. Lem, Tom, Harwin and Anguy though seem to belong to Greenbeard's team, but either they were promoted to the main HQ team or they traveled freely to and fro (though I doubt it) as liaisons or messangers between the different sections all over the place.

Also, take note where they meet with Merret Frey - Oldstones. That's fairly North for them. Black Walder, we learn later from Ryman Frey, followed outlaws that traveled into the Neck after Merret Frey's hanging. Black Walder besieged Seagard, and to get from Oldstones to the Neck, one has to pass Seagard. For all we know, that might be Edric and/or Anguy.

 

[LongRider]

A split group is suggested by what Thoros tells Bri and the appendix.  As for what that might portend for the groups remains to be seen.  One thing for sure, Beric is dead so, if there is a 'Beric' group as the appendix suggests, it's without a leader.

I don't see Greenbeard as a team leader,  he left with the Mad Huntsman to go find food, on Beric's order, without the other outlaws, and he hasn't been back since.  Plus, he's not mentioned in AFFC or ADWD. 

The scene where one person is wearing a lighting bolt on his cloak

Quote

"There were a dozen men living in the vault beneath the sept, amongst cobwebs and roots and broken wine casks, but they had no word of Beric Dondarrion either. Not even their leader, who wore soot-blackened armor and a crude lightning bolt on his cloak. When Greenbeard saw Arya staring at him, he laughed and said, "The lightning lord is everywhere and nowhere, skinny squirrel."

The only HQ seems to be the Hollow Hill and I don't think there is a formal promotion system.  Lord Beric is leader and Thoros is his 'second' if you will, but beyond that as Harwin explained to Arya at High Heart: 

 

Quote

 

"If you're their men, why do they hide from you?" [Arya asks.}

Tom Sevenstrings rolled his eyes at that, but Harwin gave her an answer. "I wouldn't call it hiding, milady, but it's true, Lord Beric moves about a lot, and seldom lets on what his plans are. That way no one can betray him. By now there must be hundreds of us sworn to him, maybe thousands, but it wouldn't do for us all to trail along behind him. We'd eat the country bare, or get butchered in a battle by some bigger host. The way we're scattered in little bands, we can strike in a dozen places at once, and be off somewhere else before they know. And when one of us is caught and put to the question, well, we can't tell them where to find Lord Beric no matter what they do to us." He hesitated. "You know what it means, to be put to the question?"

 

 

Classic form of an underground trying to avoid detection and protect it's plans and leader. 

Tom, Lem and Anguy are walking when we first meet them, because Jamie and Bri had ridden off and outsmarted their plan steal the horses Bri bought from the Inn of the Kneeling Man.  However, they capture Arya and party because they have horses, and they try to buy them from Arya.  The outlaws take them to the inn make their deal. It's not until the others ride up and Harwin identifies Arya as a the highborn daughter of Ned Stark that they start to look for Beric. 

It's Arya's trip across the RL with them looking for Beric where we learn about who the smallfolk are and what they have to tell Tom ect; about where to find Beric.  Usually the answer is 'Beric's dead' and so we learn about his different killings and how he really isn't dead.  

It seems it's the Mad Huntsman who finally takes them to Beric, and that's because Tom & party insisted that his captive, Sandor Clegane be tried by Beric.  I got the feeling from the chapter that Stoney Sept was where the Huntsman had lived for a long time and that Tom's group had a bit of differences with him.

As Harwin explains, the folks sworn to Beric seldom see him and don't always know his plans.  Interesting then, in Feast when Thoros tells of the brotherhood being broken as it was loose to begin with.  Perhaps Edric, Anguy and the others wouldn't swear to LS, but are still out there fighting to help the smallfolk instead of just hanging Freys and Lannisters. 

edt; in an earlier chapter Harwin tells Arya "

Quote

...We were still king's men, he said, and these were the king's people the lions were savaging.   If we could not fight for Robert, we would fight for them, until every man of us was dead. And so we did, but as we fought something queer happened. For every man we lost, two showed up to take his place..."

So yeah, if there is a split, perhaps it's because some still want to fight for the smallfolk and not for LS.   

[sweetsunray]

Even the small bands have a commander, and Greenbeard is mentioned to have the command over his group. It's why Arya tries to persuade him to get her to RR. But that's when he says that when you catch a gold squirrel you go to HQ first.

"Lem was not the leader, though, no more than Tom; that was Greenbeard, the Tyroshi."

Greenbeard is the "captain" of the band with Harwin that patrol the area around Sharna's Inn. Since Lem and Tom for example haven't been seen for a long time by the whores of the Peach, I assume they belong to Greenbeard's patrol, but were sent on a split mission by themselves as the main number did their thing, and are expected to report back at Sharna's at a certain day.

Lem, Anguy and Tom clearly know Greenbeard and his men will come to Sharna's inn. Either they are lured there with a signal, but since some arrive wounded it sounds like they came from a fight. But Lem, Anguy and Tom expect them. There's a hint when they salute the king before drinking, and Lem mutters "all twelve of them". It seems a joke on the many number of kings in Westeros, but Gendry mentions a dozen soldiers/riders coming, and certainly Lem and Tom don't look surprised or guarded when Gendry announces their coming; which is odd, since there could be mummers or Wolves or Lannisters about too. On foot those three wouldn't have the latest news of troop movements. After all, they missed out on Brienne and Jaime.  

They don't just lure the three children to the inn for the horses alone. Arya realizes this when she tries to haggle for the boat, and they all laugh and "boy" shows his head from behind the counter with a crossbow. They want the horses but have no intention of letting the children go freely to wherever they wish, not even before Arya reveals her identity. And they would have taken the horses without writing a note for it, if she refused the note. Let's not forget that they wanted the money Brienne paid for the horses AND the horses. Paper or no paper, they were going to have those horses, and she was never getting a boat for it in return, only a paper.

Once they join Beric, it remains approximately the same gang, except for the captain Greenbeard having been sent off to buy food. The Huntsman was never part of Greenbeard's patrol anyway. With Beric there as commander, Greenbeard doesn't need to be there anymore as captain, and he's battle hardened and trusted enough to be let go alone, and perhaps he's the sort of guy that can keep the Huntsman in line.

I still do not see Thoros' word "broken" as solid evidence for ideological split, nor the appendix. The BwB has in the hundred(s) men now. Not everybody at the Twins or at the Ruby's Ford was killed. Plenty of them escaped into the forest, and would either have been hunted or taken in by the BwB. Most likely they were taken in or word got around to them they could join a resistance group, to keep them from pillaging, raping and burning as the mummers do. All those surviving solders are broken men. The men who were present and saw Beric die, would have been broken too, especially after their anger over what happened at the Twins. Some of them would have decided then and there that it was over and leave, just as Harwin explains to Arya how the news that the king was dead had several willing to surrender to the Lions and Beric instead rallies them behind fighting for the smallfolk. For me, Thoros is indicating how the BwB's spirit has changed from merry and hopeful to angry and wrothful. And I take the appendix as info to tell us that they were last seen under Beric, but not in the scenes with LS, and there status is unconfirmed.