Calibandar

Tennis Volume 6

278 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Ser Desmond Wine's Bane said:

It might depend on the sport. Some sports definitely have banned athletes for out of competition recreational drug use.

Banning someone for testing positive for a non performance enhancing recreational drug like cocaine or mdma is extremely unfair in my opinion, ok if they were high while they're performing that's a no no, but what someone takes off the court/track/pitch is their own business if it isn't performance enhancing imo.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, lessthanluke said:

It's not ethical to test for loads of the stuff they test for but it still happens.

I don't know what drugs you're referring to and what agencies you're referring to but WADA and USADA don't test for recreational drugs out of competition and they pretty much set the standard. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/11/2016 at 0:56 PM, Lord Sidious said:

Out of interest is it only performance enhancing drugs that get athletes disqualified?, what would happen if someone tested positive for a recreational one?.

Athletes have definitely been banned for being positive on recreational drugs.

Maradona and Mutu have been banned for cocaine use, a bunch of snowboarders were disqualified for testing positive on marijuana in Nagano '98 Winter Olympics... And those are just off the top of my head.

On 3/11/2016 at 1:06 PM, Gears of the Beast said:

depends if the test is done* 'in completion' or 'out of competition'. If you test positive for cocaine in a test done during a tournament you'll be banned like Hingis was. But tests done out of competition (like random drug tests where they show up at your house at 6am) aren't meant to even test for recreational drugs, it is none of their concern and you cannot be banned. 

In Europe, football club competitions end by the end of May, then best players get a month of national team duty for World or Continental Championships and then the club pre-season starts beginning-mid July.

When would this "out of competition" be exactly?

It's even worse in tennis, with players getting a vacation only in December.

On 3/11/2016 at 3:03 PM, Gears of the Beast said:

Which ones? That would be beyond sanctimonious. It's not even ethical to test for recreational use out of competition....  Unless you're referring to some kind of discretionary ban for behavior which involved recreational drug use, that would be a completely separate issue.

Athletes have been both tested and banned for recreational drug use.

And I'm wondering why would testing for recreational drugs be unethical?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, baxus said:

Athletes have definitely been banned for being positive on recreational drugs.

Maradona and Mutu have been banned for cocaine use, a bunch of snowboarders were disqualified for testing positive on marijuana in Nagano '98 Winter Olympics... And those are just off the top of my head.

In Europe, football club competitions end by the end of May, then best players get a month of national team duty for World or Continental Championships and then the club pre-season starts beginning-mid July.

When would this "out of competition" be exactly?

It's even worse in tennis, with players getting a vacation only in December.

Athletes have been both tested and banned for recreational drug use.

And I'm wondering why would testing for recreational drugs be unethical?

Because what athletes do in their private time is no one's business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Under WADA regulations, the recreational drugs aren't tested for, and aren't banned out-of-competition. But tennis players basically don't get any "out of competition" time; as it's not just when matches are being played, but includes things like pre-season for the relevant sports, and in season.

Plenty from many sports have been banned for cocaine (which btw is considered performance enhancing anyway; but again, only in-competition). Highest profile tennis ban for cocaine I can think of would be Gasquet and Hingis.

Elsewhere in rugby for example; Matt Stevens was banned for 2 years for taking cocaine in a post-match celebration; whilst... team-mates were merely dismissed for taking it at the end-of-season party.

Edited by Which Tyler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, lessthanluke said:

Because what athletes do in their private time is no one's business.

If a doctor can turn up at your door in the middle of the night, interrupt whatever you're doing (having sex included) and demand blood and urine samples, private time argument kind of falls on its ass right then and there.

If we're talking unethical, then sharing medical records is more of a reason to frown than testing if someone smoked a joint or snorted some cocaine.

Like it or not, all that is part and parcel of being a professional athlete. If athletes have a problem with that, they should switch to other, less privacy-invasive but alas also less lucrative, professions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Which Tyler said:

Under WADA regulations, the recreational drugs aren't tested for, and aren't banned out-of-competition. But tennis players basically don't get any "out of competition" time; as it's not just when matches are being played, but includes things like pre-season for the relevant sports, and in season.

Plenty from many sports have been banned for cocaine (which btw is considered performance enhancing anyway; but again, only in-competition). Highest profile tennis ban for cocaine I can think of would be Gasquet and Hingis.

Elsewhere in rugby for example; Matt Stevens was banned for 2 years for taking cocaine in a post-match celebration; whilst... team-mates were merely dismissed for taking it at the end-of-season party.

Getting banned for taking cocaine while not performing seems ridiculous to me, particularly as its use is so widespread, the only thing I guess is, compared to other drugs it leaves sometimes system pretty quickly so they would have to be quite unlucky to get a positive test for it if they weren't a regular user, weed though takes a lot longer IIRC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Djokovic has just been broken twice in a row by 22 yr old American Bjorn Fratangelo, who also managed to hold his own serve and is currently 3 - 0, looking to hold again. Fratangelo is ranked 128th in the world and has previously won the 2011 Boys French Open.

I don't expect Fratangelo to take the match (although it would be nice), but to see Djokovic get broken twice consecutively is really awesome. He also recently lost the first set to Mikhail Kukushkin (I also commented on that), so perhaps he's not his indomitable self lately? Certainly, if he's having trouble getting into matches from the start, it would be a brilliant sign for the likes of the top ten in this tournament to have a real chance against him.

Bjorn was just 0 - 30 down as I was writing this in the fourth game, and scored three times consecutively (off a second serve, no less). It's deuce now. Will probably be asleep before it finishes, but if it would be awesome to see Djokovic lose a set at least. 

ETA: Bjorn held! 15-40 down in the 5th game, unlikely to break again, but probably doesn't need to.

ETA2: Bjorn took the first set! This match is already a success for me, although I think most people would still put their money on Djokovic at this point. 

1-1 in the second set, Djokovic 30 love up on his own serve.

Edited by Leap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

18 year old Zverev destroyed Simon in two sets ( again) and went on to play Nadal last night.

A long 3 setter in which Zverev had match points, but eventually missed his volley and Nadal won 7-5 in the 3rd set.

The Murray Eel knocked out early. Surprising but maybe not that much, he's just not that great a player IMO.

Raonic powering through to the quarter finals as well.

I do really miss Federer not playing though, makes a big difference. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zverev taking the first set from Nadal was unsurprising given how inconsistent Nadal has been for a long while now, but Nadal does seem to be hitting hot streaks more often now - hitting Verdasco and Zverev with 6-0 sets. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to be able to find the middle ground of 6-3/6-4 sets, either destroying them or having to go all the way. 

Kind of surprised to see Wawrinka and Murray going out, and what with Federer not playing, this tournament really does feel like a changing of the guard. 

I am really, really looking forward to a Nadal/Djokovic semi-final, but it's just as likely to be Nishikori/Djokovic I suppose. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/11/2016 at 10:03 PM, Gears of the Beast said:

. It's not even ethical to test for recreational use out of competition....  

It is when they have signed contracts with a "Not bring the sport into disrepute" clause that includes a ban on illicit drugs.

 

Edited by Ser Desmond Wine's Bane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking forward to the games tonight. 

If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on a Djokovic/Raonic final (as would most people, I suspect). 

Goffin's had to fight for his matches more than Raonic, but he's also had tougher opponents imo so he's clearly on something of a hot streak. Nadal has played really well so far, and managed to dominate Nishikori yesterday without crumbling to any fightbacks. But then, that was true of the World Championships last year, and Djokovic walked all over Nadal there.

In order of likelihood: D vs R, D vs G, N vs R, N vs G. 

It's a shame I can't watch the games tonight, but I might catch the BBC radio coverage. Or just follow it on my phone. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Raonic has looked well below his best form that he showed at the start of the season.

He's just not playing as well, high on mistakes, bad on footwork. But still coming through on the strength of his massive serve.

I expect him to get hammered by Djokovic, unfortunately, and as such not really looking forward to the final.

This sounds kind of down on Raonic given that he beat Berdych, Monfils and now Goffin ( who himself had beaten a few guys he normally loses to like Stan and Cilic), but the standard of play just hasn't been that great this tournament. The heat has been offered as a reason for that ( even in March it is scorching there, wouldn't want to live in a place like that), the fact that the balls bounce up high etc. 

Djokovic is also not reaching his normal levels. Of course Nadal, he wasn't blown away today like he was in January in Doha, but still,  a fairly hopeless affair all in all. He's played well this tournament Nadal, did a good job in defeating and demoralizing Nishikori in the quarter finals but isn't himself when he plays Djokovic, too tentative, too hesitant. His serve isn't good enough to worry Djokovic and that leads to longer rallies, which sadly aren't even that spectacular, most of them just go to the Djoker and that's it. A disappointing semi. Nadal can be upbeat about his overall performance ( unlike say, Murray, or Stan) but also must conclude again that Novak would beat him 11 times out of 10, so big is the gap. Heard a stat that Nadal hasn't broken Novak's serve in ages.

Tsonga will be the toughest opponent Djoker had, and even he couldn't drag a set from him.

Edited by Calibandar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, Nadal started strongly, as he has been doing throughout the tournament really, but he didn't manage to capitalise his first break. If he'd managed to hold his subsequent game, it might have been a different story, but Djokovic managed to keep it together and Nadal couldn't keep it together in the tiebreak. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Miami has been an interesting tournament so far. There's really been a rise of youngsters these first few months.

Zverev and Fritz, both only 18, went out in round 2. Zverev especially looks like a massive talent. 

Kuznetsov is a 25 year old Russian with an agressive style who looks really good and beat Stan the Man in Miami.

Kyrgios and Raonic are powering through. Thiem played well but was ejected by the Djoker yesterday. Dimitrov mamaged to beat Andy Murray but has now been ejected by Monfils,

Only shame is that Federer withdrew.

 

Edited by Calibandar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Impressed, but a little miffed, to see Kyrgios take care of Raonic like that. Although now I'd be interested to see a Djokovic/Kyrgios final, rather than the Djokovic/Nishikori usual (is it just me, or do they play each other a lot?).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm actually trying to stay up very late to catch the Kyrgios vs Nishikori game.

Both attractive players going at it. 

Djokovic struggled in round 4 against Thiem, conceded 15 break points but if you looked at the result alone you'd never think this game was anything special. He had it even tougher today against Goffin, who was genuinely better than Djokovic in the first set but repeatedly made silly errors at the crucial moments, including a terrible smash during the tie break that would have given him set points on his own serve. Djokovic was exhausted.

But as these things go when the Djoker plays, he wins that set, and then in the second set one break sufficed for the win. What's clear is that there is a tactic against Djokovic that works, now implemented by guys like Simon, Thiem and Goffin, which is try to outlast him, if you are that sort of player. And all of those guys have success with that sort of style against most anyone else ( all of them are ranked top 20). Keep the ball in play, endlessly, and you'll see that the Djoker is so much of a counterpuncher that he actually finds playing opponents like that more difficult than aggressive shotmakers. The only way it doesn't work is that despite all his troubles in those games, he's still beaten all of those guys, just like he beats all the more agressive players.

Anyway, Kyrgios is one such agressive player and Nishikori is also not in Goffin/Simon vein, he is much more into shorter points. He was nearly ejected by Monfils in the quarter final and has thus looked less impressive coming into this as Kyrgios. I'd especially want Kyrgios to win because I want to see him play the Djoker. We already know what happens when the Djoker plays Nishikori after all.

Edited by Calibandar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, Kyrgios beaten fair and square by Nishikori.

Hopefully the Japanese can keep up that level in the finall, but what is more likely to happen is what seems to happen all the time the Djoker faces someone, he negates their powers and they go in a slump. Which sadly tends to make for lousy finals.

Man I am so ready for the Djoker to get defeated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 02/04/2016 at 3:59 PM, Calibandar said:

 

Man I am so ready for the Djoker to get defeated.

Ask and thou shalt receive!

Djokovic out of the Monte Carlo Masters, by none other than Jiri Vesely! Wait...who? That's right, Djokovic beaten by someone ranked 55th in the world. 

Vesely's top ranking is 35, which is pretty good - although still somewhat below the barrier you'd expect someone had to be to beat Djokovic right now. This is probably the highlight of his career. 

I am super chuffed. I like Djokovic, but being beaten a surprisingly low ranking player is exactly what signalled a major downturn for Nadal and Federer, and I really hope that this goes a long way to humanising him - taking away the fear factor. Djokovic has a bit of a history (this season) with struggling against lower ranked players too, he's lost a surprising amount of sets (though still not many) so far this year to players with no real reason to be taking these sets. Here's hoping it marks his fall from grace, and a return to the big four - at least until Federer retires.

Edited by Leap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.