Maester Egg Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Why does Daenerys Targaryen abhor slavery? Out of Universe GRRM and all his readers abhor slavery, so any "good" character must agree. In Universe More of a question... In Westeros they abhor slavery, perhaps due to the Faith of the Seven. But Dany does not remember living there. She heard stories from her half-mad brother. Would that be enough? The Free Cities (except Braavos) have slavery. Here is where Dany grew up. We first see Dany in Pentos, where slavery is technically illegal, but widely practiced. The Dothraki depend on slavery, selling captured enemies. This is where Dany learned how to rule. Every place she has ever been has depended greatly on slavery. So where does she get her opposition to slavery? So great that she will abandon (or at least postpone) her mission of conquering Westeros and instead remain in Yeereen to prevent slavery from returning? (She found in Astapor that if you abolish slavery and then leave, it doesn't stick.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 She's especially compassionate, so much so it becomes unwise. Even in a society where slavery is normalized, one could find something wrong with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 She just decided she hated it. Or maybe not slavery in itself but the violence slaves are subjected to. Honestly, Dany's personality was never very concise to begin with. She herself was ok with having slaves as long they were treated with a bit of humanity, even though herself was not above making threats and burning them. Deep in me, I think Dany doesn't even know what she really wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grissom Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Because she saw how the dothraki dealt with their slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberdirectorfreedom Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 She was "sold" to Drogo. Though she only seems to find that distasteful when it suits her, like when she chooses to see herself as better than the people around her. She never seems to remember the fact that Drogo "purchased" her when she's remembering how fantastic her true love with him was. Sold and purchased are in quotes because the Dothraki are evidently a completely barbarous people who don't uphold a deal unless it suits them. Like someone who never pays their bar tabs. Scum of the earth, truly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, Grissom said: Because she saw how the dothraki dealt with their slaves. This. And because she herself was sold or traded as property by Viserys/Illyrio, even if turned out okay for her in the end. That said, I feel like her whole slavery crusade came out of nowhere for her. The subject wasn't substantially built up during the first two books, but then out of a sudden it's this huge theme that's basically driving her story in Storm and Dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 She tolerated slavery but was not very comfortable with it. Astapor and how the unsuilled were created was what opened her eyes to the evil and wanted to end it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 24 minutes ago, Maester Egg said: Why does Daenerys Targaryen abhor slavery? Out of Universe GRRM and all his readers abhor slavery, so any "good" character must agree. In Universe More of a question... In Westeros they abhor slavery, perhaps due to the Faith of the Seven. But Dany does not remember living there. She heard stories from her half-mad brother. Would that be enough? The Free Cities (except Braavos) have slavery. Here is where Dany grew up. We first see Dany in Pentos, where slavery is technically illegal, but widely practiced. The Dothraki depend on slavery, selling captured enemies. This is where Dany learned how to rule. Every place she has ever been has depended greatly on slavery. So where does she get her opposition to slavery? So great that she will abandon (or at least postpone) her mission of conquering Westeros and instead remain in Yeereen to prevent slavery from returning? (She found in Astapor that if you abolish slavery and then leave, it doesn't stick.) The kingdom that is her birthright has outlawed slavery for some time. It is how she was raised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jak Scaletongue Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 16 minutes ago, Maester Egg said: Why does Daenerys Targaryen abhor slavery? Out of Universe GRRM and all his readers abhor slavery, so any "good" character must agree. In Universe More of a question... In Westeros they abhor slavery, perhaps due to the Faith of the Seven. But Dany does not remember living there. She heard stories from her half-mad brother. Would that be enough? The Free Cities (except Braavos) have slavery. Here is where Dany grew up. We first see Dany in Pentos, where slavery is technically illegal, but widely practiced. The Dothraki depend on slavery, selling captured enemies. This is where Dany learned how to rule. Every place she has ever been has depended greatly on slavery. So where does she get her opposition to slavery? So great that she will abandon (or at least postpone) her mission of conquering Westeros and instead remain in Yeereen to prevent slavery from returning? (She found in Astapor that if you abolish slavery and then leave, it doesn't stick.) Growing up in Braavos, which is very anti-slavery, probably had a lot to do with it. Those first 5 years ARE the most formative, and those were spent in a very anti-slavery setting. It's never overt or obvious, or even conscious, but so much of "you" is created in those first 5 years. It's not concrete, either, "you" are changeable and will continue to grow as the person gets older and adds more experiences to their conscious and unconscious. But those first 5 years lay down the foundation for creating each person's "you." Also, she's a half-decent human being. Any half-decent human being should feel uncomfortable and awkward with the buying and selling other human beings. She's not perfect, by any means, but who is? Let's not forget puberty is still doing a number on her, and she's still trying to figure out what she wants to be - but I certainly can't see her *ever* turning into someone who appreciates and encourages slavery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 She may be against slaverbay type slavery but she certainly not against having tons of servants who are still super poor. If she was really against slavery on an ideological basis then she would have punished mormont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Honestly I think this is just grrm's own view on her. Plus gave her a reason to cheat and kill the seller in astapor to establish herself. Otherwise she can never grab power so quickly. Illryio has a lot of "slaves" in his home, I did not see dany was bitter or angry or even complain about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jak Scaletongue Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 10 minutes ago, Stag_legion said: She may be against slaverbay type slavery but she certainly not against having tons of servants who are still super poor. If she was really against slavery on an ideological basis then she would have punished mormont. I'm against slavery on an ideological basis, and I still probably wouldn't have beheaded Jorah - punished, yes; executed, no. I thought Jorah's actions were particularly and delightfully ironic - slavers looking for slaves to steal then sell get sold as slaves themselves. I know he didn't do it for ironic reasons or because he thought it was a suitable punishment for them. I also know it's not really an effective way to end the slave trade, either - but I still enjoy and appreciate the delightful irony! And in their current society, definitely a punishment suiting the crime, I think. In our society, not so much. Though, in all honesty, I wouldn't mind some of these human traffickers getting bought and sold themselves and we'll see how long they defend their "job." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 52 minutes ago, Maester Egg said: In Westeros they abhor slavery, perhaps due to the Faith of the Seven. But Dany does not remember living there. She heard stories from her half-mad brother. Would that be enough? The Free Cities (except Braavos) have slavery. Here is where Dany grew up. We first see Dany in Pentos, where slavery is technically illegal, but widely practiced. The Dothraki depend on slavery, selling captured enemies. This is where Dany learned how to rule. Every place she has ever been has depended greatly on slavery. That's a contradiction right here. Dany grew up in Braavos, that was the only place she knows she could actually call "home". She would have learned her values there, in a free city, with the Westerosi knight Ser Willem Darry as her father figure. And just one conversation with one of the Good Masters of Astapor would be quite enough to turn pretty much anyone into a staunch abolitionist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 5 minutes ago, purple-eyes said: Honestly I think this is just grrm's own view on her. Plus gave her a reason to cheat and kill the seller in astapor to establish herself. Otherwise she can never grab power so quickly. Illryio has a lot of "slaves" in his home, I did not see dany was bitter or angry or even complain about it. Again.. "Your slaves well were well treated and content. It was not until Astapor that my eyes were opened" Its called learning and changing your view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 She has no problem going back on her word, making those who she doesn't like suffer, has no problem sacking cities or conquest, and likely won't have a problem using dragons to reduce cities and castle to char, but she gets bothered by slavery. It pretty much seem a 4th wall breach to make her sympathetic to the audience despite all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Honestly I think this is just grrm's own view on her. Plus gave her a reason to cheat and kill the seller in astapor to establish herself. Otherwise she can never grab power so quickly. Illryio has a lot of "slaves" in his home, I did not see dany was bitter or angry or even complain about it. Again.. "Your slaves well were well treated and content. It was not until Astapor that my eyes were opened" Its called learning and changing your view. Mirri's village and Astapor were the tipping points. Had she only met well-treated household and professional slaves, in Qarth and the Free Cities, I doubt if slavery would have bothered her. But, she got to see how the sausage was made. In truth, I think she still accepts slavery, up to a point. She can accept people selling themselves into slavery, and its existence in neighbouring states. She objects to the kidnapping of free people. But, she's kicked off a revolution, whether she wants it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said: She has no problem going back on her word, making those who she doesn't like suffer, has no problem sacking cities or conquest, and likely won't have a problem using dragons to reduce cities and castle to char, but she gets bothered by slavery. It pretty much seem a 4th wall breach to make her sympathetic to the audience despite all that. Yeah, making her antagonists slavers pretty much ensures that she's always gonna be seen as the bad guy. It makes for a very black and white conflict, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Damn it, I meant the "good guy" in my previous post! I can't edit anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Damn it, I meant the "good guy" in my previous post! I can't edit anything. I think it's a bit more complex than that. Dany has a degree of sympathy for the downtrodden that is unusual for a member of her class. But, the anger she feels when confronted with injustice can lead her into thoughtless cruelty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 20 minutes ago, SeanF said: I think it's a bit more complex than that. Dany has a degree of sympathy for the downtrodden that is unusual for a member of her class. But, the anger she feels when confronted with injustice can lead her into thoughtless cruelty. It may be unusual for her class but her brother was known as the beggar king and she was "sold" to Drogo so she is much better able to empathise with the downtrodden as she has been closer to them then most people of her class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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