Lord of Brewtown Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Looking at the Westeros Map, and all known Strongholds and towns, the largest "void" seems to be in the central area. There's really nothing from Goldengrove to Sow's Horn, bordered by Stoney Sept, God's Eye and Tumbleton. Am I missing something? This is kind of a border area for the Reach, West, Riverlands, and Crownlands. That said, it's a large area - really about the largest on the map of Westeros, without a stronghold of any major Lord. Simply an author oversight or coincidence? Or something related to the terrain (lack of rivers/lakes)? Just seems strange that those regions wouldn't be guarding their borders with a series of strong Castles…to me one of the strangest things on the map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victarion Chainbreaker Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Like you said, this was a border area between the Reach, West, Riverlands, and (historically) Stormlands. Back when the Seven Kingdoms were independent kingdoms, this area would have been susceptible to cross-border raids. But unlike other borders delineated by natural defenses (mountains, rivers, or swamps,) this border is wide open, making it indefensible. It's no wonder that towns or cities never grew there. I suppose a kingdom could have fortified the area with castles, but it wouldn't have been the best use of resources. Why build a castle in a vulnerable position to protect a thinly populated area? It would make much more sense to build a castle aside a river or atop a hill, where its defensive properties are magnified. Either that, or George got bored of filling in names on the map and said fuck it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 There are obviously castles, towns and settlements there it is just that they have played no part in the story yet. We have quite a few Reach Lords who we have no idea where their lands are, they would account for this space. As maps go GRRM has been gradual, mainly listing the cities/capitals and places a character had either travelled through or has mentioned. The lack of castles on the map does not mean they do not exist, just that they have not been mentioned yet. This is similar to family members, just because cousins have not been mentioned does not mean they do not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 George is somewhat lazy when it comes to filling out his map. If you look at the map of the North, for example, it would appear as if castles are 300 miles apart. This is of course far from the truth, with castles, holdfasts and keeps existing all over the place inbetween the existing dots he bothered to name on the map. Just in Lord Manderly's 200 by 200 square mile domain, for example, we know there are the keeps of at least a dozen petty lords and over 100 landed knights. Now, one fully understands why showing the 100 keeps of the landed knights in Lord Manderly's territory is impractical, but there is no reason why the keeps of the dozen lords sworn to Lord Manderly could not be indicated on an expanded map of the North. Something like that would have been perfect for the Lands of Ice and Fire map book. The richness and sense of substance added to the Wolfswood area by the addition of just Ironrath Keep in the Telltale Games story is of such impact that it is astounding that George has not bothered to flesh out his own maps more, especially given the time he wastes on endless family trees and Targaryen backstories from boring interpersonal conflicts from centuries before. It would take him maybe a day to add some petty lords' keeps to the North's map. And the substance it would add to the VERY empty looking map would be immense. I honestly don't get why he doesn't even bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 12 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said: George is somewhat lazy when it comes to filling out his map. If he was map maker you would have a point, but he's not. Every book adds more detail to the maps as we learn about it, come the 7th or 8th book it will be even more detailed but it is still a map of a continent, naturally lots of details are going to be left out. As for the location of the Manderly petty lords and landed knights? Are you serious?! They are in the lands near White Harbor, do you really need a hundred extra dots to know that they are there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 30 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said: If he was map maker you would have a point, but he's not. Every book adds more detail to the maps as we learn about it, come the 7th or 8th book it will be even more detailed but it is still a map of a continent, naturally lots of details are going to be left out. As for the location of the Manderly petty lords and landed knights? Are you serious?! They are in the lands near White Harbor, do you really need a hundred extra dots to know that they are there? Ironrath Keep (which is still semi-canon but an example of what could be) gives the Glover lands so much more substance than just being Deepwood Motte and emptiness for the next 300 miles to Winterfell. Now, in addition to Ironrath, there could be a dozen similar keeps in Glover lands. As for "a hundred little dots around White Harbor". The Manderly lands are almost as big as England. Having only London indicated on a map of England would be a travesty. The same thing goes for Westeros. An expanded map focusing only on the Manderly lands, or Bolton lands, showing the location of all the petty lords' keeps, and maybe even some major landed knight castles, would be an excellent way to indicate the true nature of the North, without having to do the same for every part of the map. Just one expanded map for a prominent bannerlord's domain would do the trick. And that expanded map would cover an England sized territory in its own right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 14 hours ago, Lord of Brewtown said: Looking at the Westeros Map, and all known Strongholds and towns, the largest "void" seems to be in the central area. There's really nothing from Goldengrove to Sow's Horn, bordered by Stoney Sept, God's Eye and Tumbleton. I'm gonna assume you are referencing the westeros map inside the book. I didn't know that there was a map book published until someone on this site told me. Might interest you if you don't already own it. The Lands of Ice and Fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester of Valyria Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Here's a very good map of the whole world. You can zoom in to see Westerosi places more clearly: http://x3.cdn03.imgwykop.pl/c3201142/comment_9sg3eIX7cpWRISqgAvevpD9wnitNm6iW.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendel Shoemaker Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 16 minutes ago, Maester of Valyria said: Here's a very good map of the whole world. You can zoom in to see Westerosi places more clearly: http://x3.cdn03.imgwykop.pl/c3201142/comment_9sg3eIX7cpWRISqgAvevpD9wnitNm6iW.jpg So much Essos. Amazing how in the beginning of the story Danny was right next to King's Landing and went sooooo far in the first book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victarion Chainbreaker Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 6 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said: It would take him maybe a day to add some petty lords' keeps to the North's map. And the substance it would add to the VERY empty looking map would be immense. I honestly don't get why he doesn't even bother. I imagine George doesn't want to box himself in. Why place petty lords' keeps random places on the map when two books later he may discover the plot needs something else there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Every time I looked at the map, I felt North and Dorne should be two dependent countries, the middle portion should be one country for IT. North and Dorne were so different from central part by culture, geography, climate and basically everything. It looks so much like Canada, US and Mexico, only with narrower borders in north and south. Do you guys think Doran or arianne may at some point finally be tired of IT and Targ, declare independence like North? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfyre Bastard Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 4 hours ago, Maester of Valyria said: Here's a very good map of the whole world. You can zoom in to see Westerosi places more clearly: http://x3.cdn03.imgwykop.pl/c3201142/comment_9sg3eIX7cpWRISqgAvevpD9wnitNm6iW.jpg Thank you. That's the official map of the known world. A pity too many castles and cities are not named. Do you by any chance have links to maps of the regions of Westeros that can provide more detail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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