Blackfish

[thelittledragonthatcould]

1 hour ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Because their Riverland Lords have betrayed the Starks and have bent their knee to the Lannisters , i thought  that was pretty clear in the books. 

Right. They followed their Lords orders. Which is precisely what happened at Riverrun, the garrison followed their Lords orders.

1 hour ago, Blackfish Tully said:

 

We have no idea where and how many men are in the BWB and also we have no idea how much the BWB are communicating with the Riverlords . There are plenty of men in the Riverlands that could ambush the party heading West the question is can the get organized in time . Prester's party has women with him and he's going to be extra careful with his movements so there would be time to get an ambush ready i would think.. 

That is why I agree with you, it is not impossible just unlikely given the information we have.

1 hour ago, Blackfish Tully said:

 

Until GRRM releases an official job description i guess we will just have to use our best judgement  . Mine tells me that Warden of the Southern Marches is in charge of the "Southern Marches" which i'm assuming is everything South of Moat Calin. 

You can go on assuming what you want. The book tells us that Edmure surrendered the castle, until some information disproves that then that is what happened.

1 hour ago, Blackfish Tully said:

 

Of course they would have . The Riverlands are at war and the garrison of Riverrun are soldiers in that war so what sense would it make not to tell them who is in charge?

I have repeatedly asked you for evidence that states that the Blackfish is in charge? Him being your favourite character does not equal evidence.

As far as we the reader know Edmure is in charge of Riverrun and as the Lord of the Riverlands outranks his uncle.

Even the Appendix, which is a great indicator for rank, only ever lists the Balckfish as Castellan of Riverrun which means he was only in charge of Riverrun while the Blackfish was away.

 

1 hour ago, Blackfish Tully said:

 

The Blackfish is in Riverrun with a new title "Warden of the Southern Marches"  so every Lord , commander, Knight , ect..  would be told what his title meant and where he stands in the chain of command and they would pass that information down the ranks until every soldier in the Riverlands knows what it means .

lol You are guessing here, we don;t know any of that. For all we know is that it was a private discussion between Robb, Cat and the Blackfish and had not yet been made public.

Furthermore there is no evidence saying that the Blackfish outranks the Lord of the Riverlands. None whatsoever.

1 hour ago, Blackfish Tully said:

That's how the military works and frankly i'm not sure why i have to explain this . Don't you think that everybody in the Lannister army knows that Daven is the Warden of the West? even the soldiers in the Casterly Rock garrison would know it.

And yet the Warden of the West is taking orders from both Cersie and Jaime. Cersei as Lady of the Westerlands outranks Daven.

[Blackfish Tully]

Just now, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 

And yet the Warden of the West is taking orders from both Cersie and Jaime. Cersei as Lady of the Westerlands outranks Daven.

Jamie is Lord Commander of the Kingsguard with direct orders from the King to end the siege at Riverrun so he definitely outranks Daven at that point but i'm sure you know that and are just grasping at straws. 

 

1 minute ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

.

As far as we the reader know Edmure is in charge of Riverrun and as the Lord of the Riverlands outranks his uncle.

 

I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree since we are just going round and round on this. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

6 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Jamie is Lord Commander of the Kingsguard with direct orders from the King to end the siege at Riverrun so he definitely outranks Daven at that point but i'm sure you know that and are just grasping at straws. 

Edmure is Lord of the Riverlands so he definitely outranks the Blackfish but Im sure you know that and are just grasping at straws.

The books are very straightforward.

 

[Blackfish Tully]

34 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Edmure is Lord of the Riverlands so he definitely outranks the Blackfish but Im sure you know that and are just grasping at straws.

The books are very straightforward.

 

really ? he definitely outranks him? where is the books is it straightforward that Edmure outranks Blackfish ? you love throwing out quotes so where are  the quotes that say that ? 

It makes no sense for  Robb to give Blackfish the title and still have Edmure outrank him . How can Blackfish be the Warden and make decisions on the defense of the Riverlands if he can't tell Edmure what to do? There is a massive Lannister/Tyrell army on it's way and the Riverlands need one overall commander to see to it's defense so who is Robb going to choose , Edmure or Blackfish? 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

34 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

really ? he definitely outranks him? where is the books is it straightforward that Edmure outranks Blackfish ? you love throwing out quotes so where are  the quotes that say that ? 

This one is pretty easy.

"Edmure. And you are the rightful lord of House Tully, not him. Your uncle serves at your pleasure. The fate of Riverrun is in your hands."

Even in the appendices, in both the Stark section and the Tully section the Blackfish is ranked below his nephew.  http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Feast_for_Crows-Appendix#House_Stark

• EDMURE TULLY, Lord of Riverrun, his mother's brother, taken captive at the Red Wedding,

• LADY ROSLIN, of House Frey, Edmure's bride,
• SER BRYNDEN TULLY, called the BLACKFISH, his mother's uncle, castellan of Riverrun,

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It makes no sense for  Robb to give Blackfish the title and still have Edmure outrank him .

Of course it does. What makes no sense is needing Edmure to marry a Frey and telling him that he has been demoted.

There is absolutely no indication in the books that the Backfish outranks his nephew, especially within Riverrun. None whatsoever. If there was you would have provided them.

 

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How can Blackfish be the Warden and make decisions on the defense of the Riverlands if he can't tell Edmure what to do?

How can Daven make decisions on the defence of the Westerlands if he can't tell Cersei what to do?

How can Jaime make decisions on the defence of the Valle if he can't tell the Lords of the Vale what to do?

 

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There is a massive Lannister/Tyrell army on it's way and the Riverlands need one overall commander to see to it's defense so who is Robb going to choose , Edmure or Blackfish? 

Being in charge of the military campaign is not the same as being the Lord.  And who cares who Robb would choose, the surrender of Riverrun by Edmure (his own words) as well as every other Riverlord and their troops surrendering shows that the title is meaningless.

 

Not only is it categorically said in the books that it was Edmure's choice but there is absolutely no reason for Edmure to lie. Jaime could just as easily have said "Go and convince your uncle to surrender" and once it was done then Edmure could have said "I convinced my uncle to surrender" and it would have made ZERO difference to what happened. It would have changed nothing and is utterly unimportant to what happened. The castle surrendered regardless of who was incharge.

The idea that there is going to be a part in the next book were the Blackfish or Edmure reveal that it was really the Blackfish who surrendered is ludicrous as it does not really matter.

The whole reason for the event was to show that Jaime was willing to follow in his fathers footsteps by making evil threats to get people to obey him.

[Blackfish Tully]

32 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 

How can Daven make decisions on the defence of the Westerlands if he can't tell Cersei what to do?

 

Cersei is not just the Lady of the Westerlands , she's the mother of the King and was and probably is again the Queen Regent so why would Daven have the power to tell her what to do as the Warden ? you are comparing apples and oranges. 

 

32 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 

Of course it does. What makes no sense is needing Edmure to marry a Frey and telling him that he has been demoted.

There is absolutely no indication in the books that the Backfish outranks his nephew, especially within Riverrun. None whatsoever. If there was you would have provided them.

 

 

Edmure has not been demoted, he still is the Lord of the Riverlands , it's just that as long as the War is going on and Robb is in the North Blackfish will be Warden of the Southern Marches , his title does not diminish Edmure at all. When Robb was in the South he was in command of Edmure and now that he's up North Blackfish is in command . What sense does it make to give Blackfish the title and not have him in command of the "Southern Marches"  . 

here's how the wiki defines the "Warden" title 

Warden is a military title in the Seven Kingdoms, carrying no connotations of suzerainty. Wardens act as supreme military leaders responsible for the defense of their region in the event of foreign invasion. This avoids any hesitation or power struggles between the high lords over command of the army

Blackfish has "supreme military" responsibility over the Riverlands while Edmure is still Lord of the Riverlands. It's no different then when Robb was there. Edmure handles his Lords and his duties as Lord Paramount as long as he's is doing what his King or Warden want him to do . Robb clearly outranked Edmure and so does his Warden . It's really that simple. 

[Blackfish Tully]

37 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Not only is it categorically said in the books that it was Edmure's choice but there is absolutely no reason for Edmure to lie. Jaime could just as easily have said "Go and convince your uncle to surrender" and once it was done then Edmure could have said "I convinced my uncle to surrender" and it would have made ZERO difference to what happened. It would have changed nothing and is utterly unimportant to what happened. The castle surrendered regardless of who was incharge.

The idea that there is going to be a part in the next book were the Blackfish or Edmure reveal that it was really the Blackfish who surrendered is ludicrous as it does not really matter.

The whole reason for the event was to show that Jaime was willing to follow in his fathers footsteps by making evil threats to get people to obey him.

You are missing the point of finding out what happened in Riverrun and why it's important in the next book. 

Did Edmure just go in and convince Blackfish to surrender and they did it with no plan to save Edmure and retake the Riverlands ?

or did they come up with a plan (probably involving the BWB ) and the whole surrender was to lull the Lannister's and Frey's into a trap. 

That's why finding what happened between Blackfish and Edmure is important. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

25 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Cersei is not just the Lady of the Westerlands , she's the mother of the King and was and probably is again the Queen Regent so why would Daven have the power to tell her what to do as the Warden ? you are comparing apples and oranges. 

 No, it is apples to apples. Edmure is the Lord of the Riverlands. He is in control of his own lands which is clearly stated in the books in both actions and words.

And why have you ignored the Lords of the Vale? Jaime was their Warden and yet they continued to take their orders from Lysa Tully.

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Edmure has not been demoted, he still is the Lord of the Riverlands ,

Bingo! He rules Riverrun and his word is final as demonstrated in the books when he gave the order for Riverrun to surrender and it did so.

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it's just that as long as the War is going on and Robb is in the North Blackfish will be Warden of the Southern Marches , his title does not diminish Edmure at all.

Good! We agree. Edmue rules Riverrun and it was his decision to surrender. I bet you feel silly now that you misunderstood the situation and thought it was the Balckfish's decision.

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When Robb was in the South he was in command of Edmure and now that he's up North Blackfish is in command .

of Edmure? I suspect that this is bullshit but if you can provide evidence from the books I will happily be proven wrong.

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What sense does it make to give Blackfish the title and not have him in command of the "Southern Marches"

What constitutes the Souther Marches?

What powers does a Warden have?

How come all the Lords of the Riverlands have disobeyed the Warden?

How come all the soldiers of the Lords of the Riverlands have obeyed their Lords rather than the Warden?

What makes the soldiers of Riverrun different to the soldiers of Pinkmaiden, Stone Hedge, Wayfarer's Rest who have all obeyed their Lord over the 'Warden'?

 

 

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here's how the wiki defines the "Warden" title 

Warden is a military title in the Seven Kingdoms, carrying no connotations of suzerainty. Wardens act as supreme military leaders responsible for the defense of their region in the event of foreign invasion. This avoids any hesitation or power struggles between the high lords over command of the army

 

Well if we are taking the Wiki as fact:

Lord Edmure agrees to talk to his uncle, Brynden. Edmure surrenders the castle the next day but not before letting Brynden escape, which displeases Jaime

Excellent, the wiki confirms it. Edmure surrenders the castle.

25 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Blackfish has "supreme military" responsibility over the Riverlands while Edmure is still Lord of the Riverlands. It's no different then when Robb was there. Edmure handles his Lords and his duties as Lord Paramount as long as he's is doing what his King or Warden want him to do Robb clearly outranked Edmure and so does his Warden . It's really that simple. 

Where in the books does it say that Brynden outranks him? You are clearly making this shit up.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

1 minute ago, Blackfish Tully said:

You are missing the point of finding out what happened in Riverrun and why it's important in the next book.

lol

Right now the information we have been given is that Edmure surrendered the castle, not the Blackfish. That is what is written.

What you have is a theory, a theory that might even be true but until further information is released then it is canon that Edmure surrendered the castle.

 

1 minute ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Did Edmure just go in and convince Blackfish to surrender and they did it with no plan to save Edmure and retake the Riverlands ?

Yeah, most likely. Jaime had threatened the life of his unborn child.

1 minute ago, Blackfish Tully said:

or did they come up with a plan (probably involving the BWB ) and the whole surrender was to lull the Lannister's and Frey's into a trap. 

Maybe they did, maybe they invented a sub atomic bomb, maybe they wrote the theme tune to South Park  or maybe they had a naked wrestling match. Maybe they did all of these things or none of them. It does not matter as we can only count things that we know happened as canon and as far as we the reader know it was Edmure who surrendered.

1 minute ago, Blackfish Tully said:

That's why finding what happened between Blackfish and Edmure is important. 

That is if something happened. But sure, maybe when the TWOW is published and there is a passage of Edmure or the Blackfish laughing at how they tricked Jaime into thinking it was Edmure who surrendered when it was really the Blackfish we can revisit this conversation but until then it is very clear what we have been told; that Edmure surrendered the castle.

[Blackfish Tully]

9 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 No, it is apples to apples. Edmure is the Lord of the Riverlands. He is in control of his own lands which is clearly stated in the books in both actions and words.

And why have you ignored the Lords of the Vale? Jaime was their Warden and yet they continued to take their orders from Lysa Tully.

 

That's because the Vale was neutral in the war until Littlefinger brought them back to the Iron Throne. They were ignoring the King so why would they not ignore the King's appointed Warden . Once again apples to oranges. 

 

9 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Bingo! He rules Riverrun and his word is final as demonstrated in the books when he gave the order for Riverrun to surrender and it did so.

Good! We agree. Edmue rules Riverrun and it was his decision to surrender. I bet you feel silly now that you misunderstood the situation and thought it was the Balckfish's decision.

 

Edmure was Lord of the Riverlands when Robb was in the Riverlands so was his word final then ? of course not so why would it be final against Robb's appointed Warden? It wouldn't be but good try. 

[Blackfish Tully]

13 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 

How come all the Lords of the Riverlands have disobeyed the Warden?

How come all the soldiers of the Lords of the Riverlands have obeyed their Lords rather than the Warden?

What makes the soldiers of Riverrun different to the soldiers of Pinkmaiden, Stone Hedge, Wayfarer's Rest who have all obeyed their Lord over the 'Warden'?

 

What the heck are you talking about ? all the Lords and men of the Riverlands that you reference have all abandoned Robb's kingdom and bent the knee to the Iron Throne . Why would they obey Robb's Warden when they have bent the knee to the Iron Throne . There loyalty is now to Iron Throne so why would the obey the Warden of a kingdom they are no longer a part of . That  argument is just nonsense. 

 

4 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

 

 

[Tijgy]

It was indeed Edmure who surrendered the castle to Jaime. Brynden was not there anymore, did escape and the terms were made between Edmure and Jaime. 

We don't know what happened in the conversation between Edmure and Brynden. We were not there. Maybe it could have been Edmure's decision, Brynden's or a decision by both of them. Each option is a speculation IMO. 

We know that there were a little sneaky things done by Edmure & Brynden: Edmure let his uncle escape and actually risked the wrath of Jaime for this (something which would actually undo the surrender of RR). Did something more happen? Were they planning something?  The presence of Tom does indicate that; but every theory is still speculation.

But at the other side I still think it is very weird to think they did not plan anything. It is important to let Brynden flee and at the same time risking Edmure's life?

[Blackfish Tully]

17 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Well if we are taking the Wiki as fact:

Lord Edmure agrees to talk to his uncle, Brynden. Edmure surrenders the castle the next day but not before letting Brynden escape, which displeases Jaime

Excellent, the wiki confirms it. Edmure surrenders the castle.

 

Ok, how about i say it this way . Edmure surrendered Riverrun  after getting permission to do so from the Warden of the Southern Marches.  

 

 

[Lady Snow]

Well we know Jeyne Westerling is going to be in the prologue of TWOW o I'm thinking the Blackfish is going to try and rescue Edmure on his way there, possibly with the BWB or some of the other people in the Riverlands who are all communicating with those signal fires. Whatever it is, something's going down and I expect the Blackfish to be a part of it.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

12 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

That's because the Vale was neutral in the war until Littlefinger brought them back to the Iron Throne. They were ignoring the King so why would they not ignore the King's appointed Warden . Once again apples to oranges. 

lol No, it is not apples to oranges. It is more than clear that despite Jaime being the Warden the soldiers of the Vale take their orders from their Lords.

A Lord commands his own troops, the garrison of Riverrun are sworn to Edmure. He has the final say what they do and in this case, which is pretty clear, he gave the order to surrender.

12 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

 

Edmure was Lord of the Riverlands when Robb was in the Riverlands so was his word final then ? of course not so why would it be final against Robb's appointed Warden. 

Yes his word was final with his troops just like the Roose had the final word with the Bolton troops, Karstark had the final word with the Karstark troops and Walder had the final word with the Frey troops. And the Lords of Goodbrook, Vance, Piper, Goodbrook, Bracken etc. had the final words with their troops, not the King or some Warden.

Time and time again we have seen soldiers obey their Lords despite what the 'king' may want.

10 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

What the heck are you talking about ? all the Lords and men of the Riverlands that you reference have all abandoned Robb's kingdom and bent the knee to the Iron Throne .y

Yes, they have all surrendered to the Crown just like Edmure did.

10 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

 

Why would they obey Robb's Warden when they have bent the knee to the Iron Throne .

Exactly, when their lords surrendered to the Crown they obeyed. Exact same situation as Edmure is surrendering to the crown and his men are honour bound to accept his decision. Id imagine they were most likely relieved.

10 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

 

There loyalty is now to Iron Throne so why would the obey the Warden of a kingdom they are no longer a part of . That  argument is just nonsense. 

Bingo! Once their Lords surrendered to the Iron Throne they had to give up the fight.. Exact same situation with Riverrun.

 

10 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Ok, how about i say it this way . Edmure surrendered Riverrun  after getting permission to do so from the Warden of the Southern Marches.  

Not that we know of. In the same chapter that Brynden makes it clear that he will not negotiate Edmure is released and surrenders. In a later chapter he says that he surrendered.

I imagine that Edmure explained his reasoning to his uncle, but as far as we the reader know it was Edmure's choice.

[Blackfish Tully]

6 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

A Lord commands his own troops, the garrison of Riverrun are sworn to Edmure. He has the final say what they do and in this case, which is pretty clear, he gave the order to surrender.

Yes his word was final with his troops just like the Roose had the final word with the Bolton troops, Karstark had the final word with the Karstark troops and Walder had the final word with the Frey troops. And the Lords of Goodbrook, Vance, Piper, Goodbrook, Bracken etc. had the final words with their troops, not the King or some Warden.

Time and time again we have seen soldiers obey their Lords despite what the 'king' may want.

 

Wow , so you are saying that Edmure's word is final when it comes to the soldiers of the Riverlands even over Robb the King of the Trident ? so the King's  word is not final?

I guess I'm done arguing about this , if you think the  King's word is not the final word then i'm not sure there is any point on going on . 

 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

17 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Wow , so you are saying that Edmure's word is final when it comes to the soldiers of the Riverlands even over Robb the King of the Trident ? so the King's  word is not final?

To the soldiers of Riverrun then yes, Edmure's word is final. That has been pretty conclusively proven throughout the series.

If Lord Tully chooses to obey a King then his men will obey him, if Lord Tully chooses to ignore a King's orders they they will obey their Lord. When Hoster Tully decided to rebel against King Aerys the soldiers of Riverrun obeyed.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Lord of a Castle has the final say on what his troops do.

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I guess I'm done arguing about this , if you think the  King's word is not the final word then i'm not sure there is any point on going on . 

It quite obviously is not. There would not be so many bloody wars in the last 300 years of Westeros history if the King's word was the final word.

[Eden-Mackenzie]

 

10 hours ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Until GRRM releases an official job description i guess we will just have to use our best judgement  . Mine tells me that Warden of the Southern Marches is in charge of the "Southern Marches" which i'm assuming is everything South of Moat Calin. 

While we do not have an exact job description for "Warden of the Southern Marches", we have been given a description of Marcher lords. From the Wiki: Marcher lords is the name given to the lords of the stormlands and the Reach within the Dornish Marches. Historically they have defended against Dorne. House Caron uses the title Lord of the Marches, although they do not hold dominion over the other marcher houses of the stormlands, including House Dondarrion, House Selmy, and House Swann.^[1] House Tarly^[2] and possibly House Peake^[3] are marcher lords from the Reach.

As the Dornish Marches are at the border between Dorne and the rest of the Westeros, it follows that the Southern Marches referred to in the Blackfish's title are the lands at the southern border between Robb's kingdom and what is left of the Seven Kingdoms. The Blackfish has not been given a castle, he has not been made a lord, his is a military command. As aryagonnakill#2 previously stated, Warden is a military title, making the Blackfish in charge of defending Robb's kingdom from any attacks from the South. From the Wiki again: Warden is a military title in the Seven Kingdoms, carrying no connotations of suzerainty. Wardens act as supreme military leaders responsible for the defense of their region in the event of foreign invasion. This avoids any hesitation or power struggles between the high lords over command of the army.

[Blackfish Tully]

8 hours ago, Eden-Mackenzie said:

 

While we do not have an exact job description for "Warden of the Southern Marches", we have been given a description of Marcher lords. From the Wiki: Marcher lords is the name given to the lords of the stormlands and the Reach within the Dornish Marches. Historically they have defended against Dorne. House Caron uses the title Lord of the Marches, although they do not hold dominion over the other marcher houses of the stormlands, including House Dondarrion, House Selmy, and House Swann.^[1] House Tarly^[2] and possibly House Peake^[3] are marcher lords from the Reach.

As the Dornish Marches are at the border between Dorne and the rest of the Westeros, it follows that the Southern Marches referred to in the Blackfish's title are the lands at the southern border between Robb's kingdom and what is left of the Seven Kingdoms. The Blackfish has not been given a castle, he has not been made a lord, his is a military command. As aryagonnakill#2 previously stated, Warden is a military title, making the Blackfish in charge of defending Robb's kingdom from any attacks from the South. From the Wiki again: Warden is a military title in the Seven Kingdoms, carrying no connotations of suzerainty. Wardens act as supreme military leaders responsible for the defense of their region in the event of foreign invasion. This avoids any hesitation or power struggles between the high lords over command of the army.

"Wardens act as supreme military leaders responsible for the defense of their region in the event of foreign invasion"

To me this means that the Warden has a massive amount of power over a region during wartime , basically he is a de facto Hand of the King in a certain region, able to make any decision that is needed to be made to prepare for invasion or to fight an invasion. Every Lord, Knight , soldier ,castle would be under his command as long as he was the Warden and the war was going on . Anything less would be stupid , you don't give somebody "supreme military command" over a region and then tie their hand by not given him command over certain Lords or Castles , that is just asking to lose a war. 

Blackfish could give orders to anybody including Edmure and they can either follow the orders or they would be committing treason against Robb , it's that simple. 

[Eden-Mackenzie]

3 hours ago, Blackfish Tully said:

"Wardens act as supreme military leaders responsible for the defense of their region in the event of foreign invasion"

To me this means that the Warden has a massive amount of power over a region during wartime , basically he is a de facto Hand of the King in a certain region, able to make any decision that is needed to be made to prepare for invasion or to fight an invasion. Every Lord, Knight , soldier ,castle would be under his command as long as he was the Warden and the war was going on . Anything less would be stupid , you don't give somebody "supreme military command" over a region and then tie their hand by not given him command over certain Lords or Castles , that is just asking to lose a war. 

Blackfish could give orders to anybody including Edmure and they can either follow the orders or they would be committing treason against Robb , it's that simple. 

In terms of military action, yes, Blackfish is Supreme Commander under Robb, but politically Edmure is still Lord of Riverrun. Of course, the line between military and political action with regards to Riverrun being under siege is incredibly hazy, especially with Robb being dead and the whole mess with his heir. Edmure relinquishing Riverrun was a political decision, although I do not doubt he had a very in-depth discussion with Blackfish when they were reunited. Arguably Blackfish being removed from Riverrun was a fantastic military move on their part, as it put their best commander back in the field and available to rouse the rabble and coordinate a resistance movement.