Ned's prediction about Arya

[kimim]

3 hours ago, grinny said:

a human around a wild is a stressful and dangerous situation for the wolf and can't be compared with the behaviour of a dog to whom humans belong to the pack. Lots of dogs are more aggressive than wolves, and be it just that a wolf wouldn't kill for fun like a dog.

This. There are two types of "wolf" in the novel. GRRM knows about wolves, obviously likes wolves. Real wolves live in packs led by the monogamous and territorial alpha female and male, with their children. Staying with that pack is life or death for the wolf. That's what we get in the beginning of the novel, with the Stark family: We have the alpha male-female, who seem far more egalitarian and monogamous (wolflike) than a typical Westerosi family, and their children. The pack falls apart when the members separate, with some moving out of their "territory."

THEN there is the stereotypical wolf, wild, dangerous, untamed, impetuous, unpredictable. That is what Ned means by "wolf blood," I think. "Wolf blood" leads to the breaking of the pack, and kills the person who suffers from it: Lyanna runs away from her pack. She dies. Brandon rushes to KL, without consulting his pack. He dies.

 

[purple-eyes]

For all these "wolf blood" talk, I just want to say the APP said for Brandon and lyanna's case,  wolf blood is rashness and temper and wildness. 

It does not mean something about " live together in a pack with alpha male and female and conquer or survive together" stuff. 

[kimim]

13 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

For all these "wolf blood" talk, I just want to say the APP said for Brandon and lyanna's case,  wolf blood is rashness and temper and wildness. 

It does not mean something about " live together in a pack with alpha male and female and conquer or survive together" stuff. 

"Wolf blood" is as you describe it. That's not all it means to be a "wolf," though. Ned to Arya:

 

Quote

Let me tell you something about wolves, child. When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Summer is the time for squabbles. In winter, we must protect one another, keep each other warm, share our strengths. So if you must hate, Arya, hate those who would truly do us harm. Septa Mordane is a good woman, and Sansa … Sansa is your sister. You may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through both your hearts. You need her, as she needs you … and I need both of you, gods help me.

Edit: so yes there's "wolf blood," and there is the pack. "Winter is coming," means stay in your pack, protect one another, stay in your territory, as "in winter, we must protect one another," and winter is always coming. Of course, by taking some of his children with him and leaving for KL, Ned broke the pack himself. He moved into territory that doesn't belong to him, that he can't function in. He died and his pack suffered.

[Bastetcat]

6 hours ago, kimim said:

"Wolf blood" is as you describe it. That's not all it means to be a "wolf," though. Ned to Arya:

 

Edit: so yes there's "wolf blood," and there is the pack. "Winter is coming," means stay in your pack, protect one another, stay in your territory, as "in winter, we must protect one another," and winter is always coming. Of course, by taking some of his children with him and leaving for KL, Ned broke the pack himself. He moved into territory that doesn't belong to him, that he can't function in. He died and his pack suffered.

Off topic, but I love how Ned talks about Sansa here. I laugh any time I read it.: "Septa Mordane is a good woman, and Sansa … Sansa is your sister."

It is like: you are wolf-blooded, willful, beautiful, unique, etc young girl.. And well, Sansa is... like, gods, I have to find a good thing to say immediately. Ah, yeah, she is your sister.
( I am not surprised, Sansa lives in a fairly tale, and is totally naive, and because of that, she is not the girl you expect in the north to survive.)

Of course, I was extreme, I don't mean to offend Sansa.

 

[Lady Snow]

I don't think Jon's going to marry Dany or Arya, this isn't Mills and Boon folks.

[purple-eyes]

50 minutes ago, Bastetcat said:

 Off topic, but I love how Ned talks about Sansa here. I laugh any time I read it.: "Septa Mordane is a good woman, and Sansa … Sansa is your sister."

It is like: you are wolf-blooded, willful, beautiful, unique, etc young girl.. And well, Sansa is... like, gods, I have to find a good thing to say immediately. Ah, yeah, she is your sister.
( I am not surprised, Sansa lives in a fairly tale, and is totally naive, and because of that, she is not the girl you expect in the north to survive.)

Of course, I was extreme, I don't mean to offend Sansa.

 

I have same feeling. I think Ned favored or liked arya over sansa. 

Arya is similar to his most beloved sister lyanna. But sansa is a duplicate of his wife who is something he had to accept and he did not love that much, at least not as much as his love in lyanna. 

So you can clearly see Ned's attitude. 

Parent has their own favored one all the time. 

[grinny]

3 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

I have same feeling. I think Ned favored or liked arya over sansa. 

Arya is similar to his most beloved sister lyanna. But sansa is a duplicate of his wife who is something he had to accept and he did not love that much, at least not as much as his love in lyanna. 

So you can clearly see Ned's attitude. 

Parent has their own favored one all the time. 

While I think that Ned sometimes had a problem understanding Sansa compared to Arya and Sansa being more of a mama-girl, I never thought that he had nothing good to say about her, just v something good that Arya would see as something good. Oh and it was the most important reason.

 

[purple-eyes]

1 minute ago, grinny said:

While I think that Ned sometimes had a problem understanding Sansa compared to Arya and Sansa being more of a mama-girl, I never thought that he had nothing good to say about her, just v something good that Arya would see as something good. Oh and it was the most important reason.

 

Oh, but the point is if Ned held sansa high and thought she had a a lot of good things to say, his first words would be: sansa is a sweet and nice girl, you should get well with her and learn from her blablabla, not that "she is your sister" which hinted that "no matter how you are better than her and how you dislike her,  she is your sister, you have to be well with her" . 

[Bastetcat]

1 hour ago, purple-eyes said:

Oh, but the point is if Ned held sansa high and thought she had a a lot of good things to say, his first words would be: sansa is a sweet and nice girl, you should get well with her and learn from her blablabla, not that "she is your sister" which hinted that "no matter how you are better than her and how you dislike her,  she is your sister, you have to be well with her" .

Yes, the massage is what you said! Sisterhood is important!

But I can't help thinking of Ned with a desperate face trying to say a meaningful good quality for Sansa, and failing.  
Ned understands Arya better, as Cat does Sansa. Their relationships with them mirrors each others's. 
As much as I like to think their family as a close one to the ideal (in Westeros, probably 10/10), it isn't. Not trying to understand Arya (Cat) and not appreciating Sansa (Ned) makes the kids losing faith in them.
As Arya doubts Cat's love, so Sansa doubt Ned's judgment of the situation in KL.
The result: Arya is afraid of Cat's opinion, not trusting her to want her even when she is dirty... is a huge problem! Think about it: if you are not perfect and clean, your mother wont love you?! This is a BIG failure on Cat's part!
Sansa turns to Cercei when she is at the moment to go home. She know Ned wont change his mind. (Communication Ned!, last minute sort-of-explanation doesn't work with teenage girls, apparently.)

Back to the topic:
I think Jon would marry Arya, and I hope so. I just don't know how, without the 5 year gap. Things wont be as originally planned, and I am afraid, with Arya so young, it wont happen now. And a lot of other things would change as well. So if they won't marry, it will be probably because of this.
 

[purple-eyes]

3 minutes ago, Bastetcat said:

Yes, the massage is what you said! Sisterhood is important!

But I can't help thinking of Ned with a desperate face trying to say a meaningful good quality for Sansa, and failing.  
Ned understands Arya better, as Cat does Sansa. Their relationships with them mirrors each others's. 
As much as I like to think their family as a close one to the ideal (in Westeros, probably 10/10), it isn't. Not trying to understand Arya (Cat) and not appreciating Sansa (Ned) makes the kids losing faith in them.
As Arya doubts Cat's love, so Sansa doubt Ned's judgment of the situation in KL.
The result: Arya is afraid of Cat's opinion, not trusting her to want her even when she is dirty... is a huge problem! Think about it: if you are not perfect and clean, your mother wont love you?! This is a BIG failure on Cat's part!
Sansa turns to Cercei when she is at the moment to go home. She know Ned wont change his mind. (Communication Ned!, last minute sort-of-explanation doesn't work with teenage girls, apparently.)

Back to the topic:
I think Jon would marry Arya, and I hope so. I just don't know how, without the 5 year gap. Things wont be as originally planned, and I am afraid, with Arya so young, it wont happen now. And a lot of other things would change as well. So if they won't marry, it will be probably because of this.
 

That is not a big deal. 

Arya is soon 12, good for betroth. 

And who knows how long the final battle will last? 

The summer lasted for whole 10 years, if this coming winter arrived only for like half an year then it was shattered by jon snow immediately, it sounds very lame. 

It had to be longer than that. 

[kimim]

4 hours ago, Bastetcat said:

Off topic, but I love how Ned talks about Sansa here. I laugh any time I read it.: "Septa Mordane is a good woman, and Sansa … Sansa is your sister."

It is like: you are wolf-blooded, willful, beautiful, unique, etc young girl.. And well, Sansa is... like, gods, I have to find a good thing to say immediately. Ah, yeah, she is your sister.
( I am not surprised, Sansa lives in a fairly tale, and is totally naive, and because of that, she is not the girl you expect in the north to survive.)

Of course, I was extreme, I don't mean to offend Sansa.

 

Very true! On the other hand, given the context, "sister" is a powerful term. Sansa and Arya are different as sun and moon, but they're both family, both pack, and thanks to Ned's decision to be Hand, the pack is small, in alien territory. I think Jaime mocks the small size of Ned's wolf pack when they meet in KL, right before killing Ned's men, and wounding Ned. 

lol to return to the op: I think that's just Ned, trying to comfort Arya. I don't think he's being prophetic at all. He's just trying to give her a feel for the possibilities open to her and to her children.

[Beautiful Bloody Sword]

20 hours ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

Wolves are wild animals. Wild animals, by definition, tend to be more unpredicatable, aggressive, and headstrong than domesticated animals. This, by extension, makes them more dangerous. This is true about horses, pigs, cows, and any other wild animal you can think of, including wolves.

The domesitcated dog is decended from wild dogs (and wolves). Each generation was specifically bred and selected for to weed out the wild tendencies.

Coming full circle, this is why I believe "wolf-blooded" means exactly how wild animals act: unpredicatable, aggressive, and headstrong.

I agree

[Hodor's Aunt]

On 7.2.2016 at 6:13 AM, purple-eyes said:

I have brought up this somewhere but I think it is worthy for one thread.

So Ned told Arya she would marry a king.

Quote:

"You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon."

Her sons will be knights, princes, lords and even high Septon. But not king.

No matter how many sons a king has, one of them should become king and this is the most important thing for king and queen.

Usually if you say somebody marry a king, you will naturally say, you will give him a son and this son will be king one day and rule the kingdom, etc.

So this means, Arya will not bear a heir for this king. This king has already an heir.

So I think, Jon marries Dany for political reason and Arya for his personal desire, then Dany dies at childbirth (and reunite with Drogo) and gives Jon an heir.

And this baby will become king someday. Arya can have a lot of sons, but they will be knights, princes, lords, high septon, whatever, but not king.

 

"Prince" may refer to a king's heir (as in "Prince of Dragonstone"). If taken as a prophecy it would mean that the king Arya is to marry would outlive her.

[Bastetcat]

On 2016. február 7. at 6:13 AM, purple-eyes said:

I have brought up this somewhere but I think it is worthy for one thread.

So Ned told Arya she would marry a king.

Quote:

"You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon."

Her sons will be knights, princes, lords and even high Septon. But not king.

No matter how many sons a king has, one of them should become king and this is the most important thing for king and queen.

Usually if you say somebody marry a king, you will naturally say, you will give him a son and this son will be king one day and rule the kingdom, etc.

So this means, Arya will not bear a heir for this king. This king has already an heir.

So I think, Jon marries Dany for political reason and Arya for his personal desire, then Dany dies at childbirth (and reunite with Drogo) and gives Jon an heir.

And this baby will become king someday. Arya can have a lot of sons, but they will be knights, princes, lords, high septon, whatever, but not king.

Or after Dany dies, Jon marries a second wife who is Arya, this is also possible. But I do not think GRRM will do this. If he makes them marry, it has to be a polygamy marriage to increase the drama. And I think this is the "third treason for love". Jon will betray Dany for his love in Arya, because he will introduce a second wife into their marriage. Dany, in this cases as Visenya, would not be very happy I guess, but she loves Jon and also needs his help to save the world, so she accepts it.

 

HBO show changed this to "you will marry a high lord". I think this is because HBO show does not want to do polygamy.

It maybe OK to happen in the book, but for the TV show, this is just not that......proper.

However, it is more important for the story plot that Jon marries Dany, not Arya. So Arya has to be removed from this polygamy marriage.

I guess Arya would marry Gendry who is a combination of Gendry and Edric in the show, the future new lord of Storm's end.

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believed the quote meant to show the king would live long (unlike the previous ones), so his son wont become a king, but perhaps his grandchild will be. Like Walder Frey's son probably never be lords of the Twins, but a grandchild will/could be. (Hypothetically speaking, I am not going into the Frey-Red Wedding topic.)

And I think the prince that was promised could be Jon, even if he become a king someday in the future. The title (prince) could be referring to the time the "hero" do his big move. So during the long night, and the Others's invasion he is a prince, then aftermath he becomes king.
(And I don't thing we hear about Aemon that he could have become king by a council is a coincidence. He said it to Sam (I think, I am not sure), who already made Jon a leader once. I believe Sam - who is at the citadel, becoming a maester!!! will make the same move, and he (Sam) will be the ultimate "Kingmaker" in the end. )

So Arya could marry a prince or a king, it doesn't matter. What is important in Arya's answer is that she wouldn't be someone's wife because someone orders her so (like Sansa. THAT is Sansa. Not the title (queen, wife, mother, etc.), but the behavior (obedience, following the current system's rule). 
 

[Winter's Cold]

On 2/7/2016 at 8:15 AM, Joan Jett said:

"sons will be knights, princes, lords and even high Septon. But not king."

I think you're focusing too much on the fact that 'King' isn't listed among the occupations of the future sons. 'Prince' is listed and crowned princes are in line to become king. It doesn't have to say King, but you keep seeing what you want to see.

Same with the people saying the 'You will marry a King' quote actually applies to Sansa. Ned himself told Sansa that she would marry a Lord, not a King. He only said Arya would marry a King. 

"No, that's Sansa."

Just to be logical, at that point in the story Sansa was publicly betrothed to the Prince and was expected by everyone to become queen. So Arya expected Sansa to be queen and not herself. 

It's curious that this exact type of blatant foreshadowing happens to Jon Snow in the second book. Mormont's raven screams 'King' twice. Jon says its directed at Mormont. According to you guys, that means Jon won't be King but Mormont somehow will beyond all reason. Jon's just not that type of guy anyway. Except foreshadowing put in by the author doesn't work that way and I don't know why so many of you are trying to force it to. Arya becoming queen is so terribly hard for you all to imagine that you mentally block any suggestions at it and do mental gymnastics to deny textual hints. 

I think it's interesting that these people believe that the female pov with most chapters and also the only pov with a chapter in every single book is somehow insignificant. Arya accomplishing all she has only to die without doing anything of consequence is as likely as Jon Snow staying dead, Dany never reaching Westeros, Tyrion dying of greyscale and Bran not playing a role in the war against the White Walkers. Like it or not, Arya is one of the five main characters in the series along with Jon, Arya, Tyrion, Bran and Dany. George has told us countless times that he knows how the character's stories ends. Arya's role belongs to only Arya. She can't replaced by any other character. Whether that role is killing someone important or marrying a certain king, Arya is the one that will fulfill it.

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

On 2/7/2016 at 0:13 AM, purple-eyes said:

I have brought up this somewhere but I think it is worthy for one thread.

So Ned told Arya she would marry a king.

Quote:

"You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon."

Her sons will be knights, princes, lords and even high Septon. But not king.

No matter how many sons a king has, one of them should become king and this is the most important thing for king and queen.

Usually if you say somebody marry a king, you will naturally say, you will give him a son and this son will be king one day and rule the kingdom, etc.

So this means, Arya will not bear a heir for this king. This king has already an heir.

So I think, Jon marries Dany for political reason and Arya for his personal desire, then Dany dies at childbirth (and reunite with Drogo) and gives Jon an heir.

And this baby will become king someday. Arya can have a lot of sons, but they will be knights, princes, lords, high septon, whatever, but not king.

Or after Dany dies, Jon marries a second wife who is Arya, this is also possible. But I do not think GRRM will do this. If he makes them marry, it has to be a polygamy marriage to increase the drama. And I think this is the "third treason for love". Jon will betray Dany for his love in Arya, because he will introduce a second wife into their marriage. Dany, in this cases as Visenya, would not be very happy I guess, but she loves Jon and also needs his help to save the world, so she accepts it.

 

HBO show changed this to "you will marry a high lord". I think this is because HBO show does not want to do polygamy.

It maybe OK to happen in the book, but for the TV show, this is just not that......proper.

However, it is more important for the story plot that Jon marries Dany, not Arya. So Arya has to be removed from this polygamy marriage.

I guess Arya would marry Gendry who is a combination of Gendry and Edric in the show, the future new lord of Storm's end.

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah, it won't happen that way, purple eyes. 

Here's a better story.  Jon marries Arya and squeezes out an ugly duckling or two.  Mel really fucks up and convinces Jon that he's AA.  Jon buys into it and stabs Arya in the heart with his sword to create lightbringer.  And nothing happens.   No lightbringer, no magic.  Just a dead Arya and a grief-stricken Jon Snow.  Mel asks where the nearest loo is, walks away, and is never seen again after they discover one horse missing.  Jon Snow pledges himself to the Great Other.  He becomes the Great Other's right-hand man, ala Darth Vader to Palpatine.  They run the realm for a while until the weather returns to normal.  The dragons come in, turns them all to smoldering briquets, and Jon finally gets to rest in peace, to be with his Arya. 

[Meera of Tarth]

3 hours ago, Sam2Sexy said:

Nah, it won't happen that way, purple eyes. 

Here's a better story.  Jon marries Arya and squeezes out an ugly duckling or two.  Mel really fucks up and convinces Jon that he's AA.  Jon buys into it and stabs Arya in the heart with his sword to create lightbringer.  And nothing happens.   No lightbringer, no magic.  Just a dead Arya and a grief-stricken Jon Snow.  Mel asks where the nearest loo is, walks away, and is never seen again after they discover one horse missing.  Jon Snow pledges himself to the Great Other.  He becomes the Great Other's right-hand man, ala Darth Vader to Palpatine.  They run the realm for a while until the weather returns to normal.  The dragons come in, turns them all to smoldering briquets, and Jon finally gets to rest in peace, to be with his Arya. 

So what's the point in killing Arya to create Lightbringer if he is going to become a pupil of the Great Other? When does his descent to the "Dark Side" happen, considering how much does he love Arya, maybe when he rises from the dead? Because if it happens after killing his beloved sister, the next step to becoming a malicious man doesn't make any sense....

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I don't believe what you seem to believe bi=ut that makes me think about two things. Firstly  Arya told him "No that's Sansa." so she seems that she denies her *destiny* and secondly if we believe that this might come true we can say the same about what he told about Bran "or enter your mother's Faith and become the High Septon" and somehow I don't see the new greenseer becoming the High Septon.

[standing_on_the_]

He never said marry a king he said marry some high lord...major difference and makes your whole theory ridiculous

[Joan Jett]

4 minutes ago, standing_on_the_ said:

He never said marry a king he said marry some high lord...major difference and makes your whole theory ridiculous

In AGOT the quote is "you will marry a king". Reread it if you have to. It's there. Ned also refers to himself as "father to queens" in an earlier chapter. 

You must be thinking of the show, they changed it to "High Lord".