Ned's prediction about Arya

[Joan Jett]

Just now, Risto said:

And the point of the SSM is that every line in the series have particular purpose. You are arguing that the point of certain line is one thing, some people believe it to be another. That is just people seeing different things in the same thing. Which then negates the position that people are holding their heads in sand. Lastly, GRRM didn't deny the romance, because he wasn't asked about the romance. The way I see it, he said that there is a point to the emphasis on love Arya and Jon feel for each other. 

Yes. And that point is that it will lead to romance. Their strong feelings have that important purpose.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

8 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

Yes. And that point is that it will lead to romance. Their strong feelings have that important purpose.

Or it was to emphasise that in a bleak world like Westeros pure siblings' love can happen and it's not all about sex. I am the only one who see OberynElia like situatiuon during the last of Jon's chapters in ADWD?

[Mladen]

5 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

Yes. And that point is that it will lead to romance. Their strong feelings have that important purpose.

Well, that is one view. Another is that they feel, have felt and will always feel great sibling love for each other. Not every sibling love leads to incest. 

[Joan Jett]

12 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

So it’s in his DNA? I didn’t knew that incest was a DNA thing, I always thought that it was a culture thing and Jon was raised in a not Targ non incest, heck they even see incest as an abomination, thing.

 

I was half joking when I said that, but yes I suppose Jon could be genetically prone to incest. Several other targaryen men in history also could have been. GRRM has already said that the genetics in his series are magical and strange.  It's fantasy after all. Like the Baratheon black hair thing for example.

Anyway there have been previous Targaryens who developed romantic/sexual feeling for their siblings all on their own. Aegon I was attracted to Rhaenys and married her because of it. They weren't betrothed, he just loved her. 

Jaeharys II fell in love with his sister and they ran away together. Their father was against it, they were not betrothed. 

Aemon the dragonknight was rumored to have been in love with his sister Naerys. They weren't supposed to be together, but they (probably) loved each other anyway. 

[Joan Jett]

3 minutes ago, Risto said:

Well, that is one view. Another is that they feel, have felt and will always feel great sibling love for each other. Not every sibling love leads to incest. 

That's true. But this one probably will. Foreshadowing and all.

[Cas Stark]

I never saw Ned's conversation with Arya as any kind of foreshadowing.  People see foreshadowing in literally every sentence.  I don't see anything resembling foreshadowing that Arya will be Queen, all of her foreshadowing is about death, to the point that when she dies it's going to be 'oh yeah, i guess that was super obvious the whole time' like it was when Robb died.

The author doesn't have any time left to create a romance between Arya and Jon, especially since Book Arya is still 12 and still in Essos, there is no time for them to reconnect and then have romantic feelings.  This is an idea that he had once and wisely abandoned, but he maintained the strong connection and love between the two as brother and sister.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

9 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

I was half joking when I said that, but yes I suppose Jon could be genetically prone to incest. Several other targaryen men in history also could have been. GRRM has already said that the genetics in his series are magical and strange.  It's fantasy after all. Like the Baratheon black hair thing for example.

Anyway there have been previous Targaryens who developed romantic/sexual feeling for their siblings all on their own. Aegon I was attracted to Rhaenys and married her because of it. They weren't betrothed, he just loved her. 

Jaeharys II fell in love with his sister and they ran away together. Their father was against it, they were not betrothed. 

Aemon the dragonknight was rumored to have been in love with his sister Naerys. They weren't supposed to be together, but they (probably) loved each other anyway. 

I know that, but I believe that is the culture of the uberhumanTargs not the DNA, families like Martells or Baratheons don't seem to have the same issue.

[grinny]

8 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

I was half joking when I said that, but yes I suppose Jon could be genetically prone to incest. Several other targaryen men in history also could have been. GRRM has already said that the genetics in his series are magical and strange.  It's fantasy after all. Like the Baratheon black hair thing for example.

Anyway there have been previous Targaryens who developed romantic/sexual feeling for their siblings all on their own. Aegon I was attracted to Rhaenys and married her because of it. They weren't betrothed, he just loved her. 

Jaeharys II fell in love with his sister and they ran away together. Their father was against it, they were not betrothed. 

Aemon the dragonknight was rumored to have been in love with his sister Naerys. They weren't supposed to be together, but they (probably) loved each other anyway. 

But that is actual more cultural than anything else.

All those examples you named, grew up knowing that siblings are highly potential love interest.

[Joan Jett]

7 minutes ago, grinny said:

But that is actual more cultural than anything else.

All those examples you named, grew up knowing that siblings are highly potential love interest.

Not Jaehaerys II and his sister. Their father forbid them from marrying, he didn't want anymore targaryen incest. The kids fell in love anyway. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

3 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

Not Jaehaerys II. Their father forbid them from marrying, he didn't want anymore targaryen incest. The kids fell in love anyway. 

Yet is their history their culture. Egg couldn't erase two Westerosi centuries of history.

[purple-eyes]

7 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

Not Jaehaerys II and his sister. Their father forbid them from marrying, he didn't want anymore targaryen incest. The kids fell in love anyway. 

they were raised in a house which always recognized and preferred sibling incest over thousands of years. Aegon v himself was betrothed to his sister too. Not to mention their most wonderful ancestors like aegon I and jaehaerys ii are into incest. 

This is hell different from jon and arya. 

 

 

[Little Lark]

1 minute ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Yet is their history their culture. Egg couldn't erase two Westerosi centuries of history.

Yeah, I think the situation with Jaehaerys and Shaera was a bit different because of the Targaryen history. Unlike in other families, the taboo of marrying a sibling had been broken a hundred times over. Even the rest of Westeros considered the Targs to be above the rules when it came to incest so the inherent wrongness that Jaehaerys might have felt about falling for his sister was probably so diluted that it wouldn't have mattered what Egg's opinion was. 

[Winter's Cold]

Arya and Jon probably won't start a relationship if they fall in love due to the sibling incest taboo. However, if/when they find out that they're only cousins, there's a pretty good chance that they may end up together. Setting up a romantic relationship wouldn't be difficult either since a strong loving relationship has already been established. That can be easily transformed into a more romantic one if the two characters meet again.

Don't forget that Jon's dying thoughts were of Arya.

Quote

Stick them with the pointy end. 

 

[Winter's Cold]

54 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I never saw Ned's conversation with Arya as any kind of foreshadowing.  People see foreshadowing in literally every sentence.  I don't see anything resembling foreshadowing that Arya will be Queen, all of her foreshadowing is about death, to the point that when she dies it's going to be 'oh yeah, i guess that was super obvious the whole time' like it was when Robb died.

The author doesn't have any time left to create a romance between Arya and Jon, especially since Book Arya is still 12 and still in Essos, there is no time for them to reconnect and then have romantic feelings.  This is an idea that he had once and wisely abandoned, but he maintained the strong connection and love between the two as brother and sister.

You could say that for most characters. If Dany dies, then it was obvious. If Dany lives and becomes queen, then that was obvious as well. If Sansa dies, then she was just another Robb. If Sansa lives and becomes queen, then it was foreshadowed. You don't know 100% certain what's foreshadowing until the foreshadowed part plays out.

For example, this Sansa quote.

Quote

I never asked to play. The game was too dangerous. One slip and I'm dead.

Does this foreshadow that Sansa will die trying to play the game of thrones? 

 

Also, this Dany quote.

Quote

My flesh will feed the wolves and carrion crows, she thought sadly, and worms will burrow through my womb.

Does this signify that Dany will die by the end of the novel?

 

 

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

1 hour ago, purple-eyes said:

they were raised in a house which always recognized and preferred sibling incest over thousands of years. Aegon v himself was betrothed to his sister too. Not to mention their most wonderful ancestors like aegon I and jaehaerys ii are into incest. 

This is hell different from jon and arya. 

 

 

Lots of incest in the Stark family tree.  Ned's not the first Stark whose parents were first cousins.

[Joan Jett]

47 minutes ago, Byrnard Sandors said:

Lots of incest in the Stark family tree.  Ned's not the first Stark whose parents were first cousins.

Yep. Targaryens have a history of sibling marriage and Starks have a history of cousin marriage. Jon and Arya are both siblings and cousins in a sense. It's a perfect Targ/Stark match

[hardhome]

An odd thought, in AFFC I hypothesized that Arya would impersonate Myrcella.  If she married into the Martells her sons would become princes.  Though I'm not certain that is the answer.

[tinka10]

On 24/02/2016 at 1:06 AM, Cas Stark said:

The author doesn't have any time left to create a romance between Arya and Jon, especially since Book Arya is still 12 and still in Essos, there is no time for them to reconnect and then have romantic feelings.  This is an idea that he had once and wisely abandoned...

He doesn't really have to. It's already there, and to me it feels like he's really banging this relationship against our heads, especially in book 5. There are no indications he's abandoned this pairing yet. If he hasn't, I just hope he's subtle about it and doesn't dedicate half a novel to a blossoming romance. 

As for age, I feel like it's pointless to argue that she's too young. It's difficult for modern readers to separate our cultural sensibilities, we tend to apply them to our readings. But we forget this is set in a medieval period where the average life expectancy was around 30. People grew up fast and died young.

[chrisdaw]

It's not Jon she's going to marry. Jon is going to marry her off. Jon will be KITN, Arya will therefor be a princess. Jon marries her to the king on the IT and then bends the knee, realm consolidated, peace. Only Arya has to sacrifice what she wants, who she really wants and loves for the good of the realm. Stop hiding, stop being no-one and doing whatever you want, be Arya Stark again, go do your duty, your people, your lord, your king, Jon, need you, they need Arya Stark to be Arya Stark, not no-one and not an assassin.

[Joan Jett]

3 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

It's not Jon she's going to marry. Jon is going to marry her off. Jon will be KITN, Arya will therefor be a princess. Jon marries her to the king on the IT and then bends the knee, realm consolidated, peace. Only Arya has to sacrifice what she wants, who she really wants and loves for the good of the realm. Stop hiding, stop being no-one and doing whatever you want, be Arya Stark again, go do your duty, your people, your lord, your king, Jon, need you, they need Arya Stark to be Arya Stark, not no-one and not an assassin.

Except Jon is going to be who she marries because Jon is going to site the Iron Throne. It's all foreshadowed in book one, through dialogue and symbolism. 

Arya is going to marry the King who is also the "black bastard". That's Jon.