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Where are those 200 Valyrian steel blades in westeros?


purple-eyes

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It was said that there are 200 of them in seven kingdoms. And thousands in the whole world.

But We only knew less than 10 of them.

Where are the rest of them?

If they have 200 in the realm, by average each realm will have about 30, almost one for each house.

How come Tywin had such a hard time to get one?

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Hm, i think that many swords are lost in battles during the Targaryen's Reign. Example: Battle in the Trident, many weapons are lost in that rivers. And... The swords may have been stolen. The Valyrian Steel is valuable, so traders can have it sold out of Westeros.

 

" Valyrian steel blades were scarce and costly, yet thousands remained in the world, perhaps two hundred in the Seven Kingdoms alone. " Tyrion

Tyrion is not sure about it, and i don't believe because the Valyrian Steel is too valuable to be overlooked, unless many swords are lost.

 

 

 

Sorry for my bad english.

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I would not expect a mention for each and every one of them. The author should be allowed a degree of vagueness in such issues, or else we should not expect to ever get an ending to the series (it takes a lot sans this level of detail, imagine if he *had* to go there...).

Anyhow, it is supposed to be a matter of honour to keep your valyrian blade even if you have lost much of the rest, so there may be minor houses that do not need to be mentioned, but still owning a valyrian steel sword (and refuse to part with it).

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It also bolsters the fact that the total number of noble Houses is vastly larger than the Houses that have been named, even in the Glossaries.

For example, just in the North, which is the region we have the most information on from the main series, there are likely around 150 lordly Houses, and probably around 1000 "Landed Knight" Houses. This is extrapolated from Lord Manderly having a dozen lords and 100 landed knights in his domain alone.

So across the entire Westeros, we are probably talking in the region of 1500 lordly Houses, and maybe as many as ten thousand Landed Knight Houses.

The 200 Valyrian blades are distributed between this vast number.

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I don't know because GRRM hasn't told us, because where they are now because is not important. What's important is that when the Others come and the realm get their shit together there about 200 warriors defending the realm with VS. That's why GRRM would have thrown that number out there.

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56 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

I don't know because GRRM hasn't told us, because where they are now because is not important. What's important is that when the Others come and the realm get their shit together there about 200 warriors defending the realm with VS. That's why GRRM would have thrown that number out there.

Maybe George is purposely doing that to make us think there will be a great battle with White Walkers VS Valyrian Steel clad warriors

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1 hour ago, moonshield said:

If you consider that house Mormont had Valyrian steel sword its not that farfetched to assume other minor houses also hold on to theirs :)

 

Take House Crobray for example. They are extremely impoverished (House Momont on the other hand never was rich), yet they refuse to sell their extremely valuable and well-crafted Valyrian sword Lady Forlon with a heart-shaped Ruby pommel.

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1 hour ago, moonshield said:

If you consider that house Mormont had Valyrian steel sword its not that farfetched to assume other minor houses also hold on to theirs :)

That's the thing, the world building here is full of holes. If it costs as much as an army while the Freehold was still around, how on earth did the Mormonts, one of the weaker houses of the North, ger one? They should never have had the money for it in the first place. Then you have exactly one other house in the North with such a weapon - The Starks of Winterfell. Fine, I can get that the kings of Winter managed to get one, with the entire wealth of the North.... But the Mormonts should never have had any. The Umbers and the Karstarks are richer, and yet have none. The lands around Barrowton are rich and should provide far more income, and yet you don't hear of house Ryswell having a sword. Bolton and even richer Manderly also lack one. So how on earth did the Mormonts come up with a sword only thier liege lords were able to get, while other and richer lords have none?

The Hightower I get. They are as rich as the Lannisters. The Lannisters lost thiers, and the Tyrells were only Lords Paramoint after Aegon, meaning that any sword hypothetically held by house Gardener was likely lost with Mern IX on the Field of Fire. Orphan-Maker also came from the Reach and was lost during the Dance. Tarly still has sword, which makes the Reach the place with the most known swords aside from the Targs themselves. Likely because the Reach is the wealthiest region, where the most lords can afford one. This goes well with the theme that the Reach is Westeros' bread basket, and where a knight walks around in full plate armor, where as the further north you go, the lower the technological level is. The Sword Red Rain is assumed by some in the Fandom to have come from house Reyne. Fine, a rich house from the Westerlands, and they also could not get the funds for another sword. But where are the rest? Surely another Westerland house has mines and funds to buy itself a blade. Then we get to the places where it's just odd. Houses Arryn and Durrandon are never mentioned as having a VS sword. Kings of powerfull realms, the Stormlands specifically was wealthy from taking over most of the area that is today the Crownlands and the Riverlands, and still they could not afford one? Or did they simply not care to spend so much for a fancy sword? At least one is known to exist in the Vale. House Martell also lacks a sword, but at least there one can somehow reason that Dorne is not as wealthy as other places in Westeros due to it being mostly an autarkic economy, with the desert negating most options for economic surplus, and the difficult shore making it unable to have decent naval trade. But overall, we have met most important houses, and practically none of them have a VS sword. They are all over the place, with the Mormonts losing thiers to Jeor's son replacement, house Corbray losing it's sword to a deserving second son, house Harlaw's sword being at the hands of a relative rather than the lord. It is possible that there are ~200 weapons, just not where one can easily find them. Which is stupid, there is no way in hell a man like Tywin Lannister can't find a single guy with a blade who prefers the cash to be a lord in his own right, rather than have a kewl sword.

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House Mormont's "poverty" is relative.

They have the resources to raise in excess of 1000 soldiers, and provide the logistics and supplies to equip and march them to war.

This includes the cost of food, fodder, horses, beasts of burden, servants, etc. etc.

At a logistical cost of maybe a silver per soldier per day, that can easily equate to 30,000 silver Stags to keep a 1000 strong army in the field for a month. Make that close to 100,000 silver Stags if the mobilization lasts 3 months.

No major bannerlord is poor. The Mormonts are just poor by comparison to richer Houses. But they still have access to a rather huge amount of resources.

 

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12 minutes ago, Nyrhex said:

That's the thing, the world building here is full of holes. If it costs as much as an army while the Freehold was still around, how on earth did the Mormonts, one of the weaker houses of the North, ger one? They should never have had the money for it in the first place.

Forging Valyrian swords is a lost art, but in past times it probably was more common. Not common as in every farmer gets a Valyrian steel scythe, but if you really wanted a sword and you're a lordling you could afford it. I guess the Mormonts purchased their sword when it didnt mean you got to ruin your house for all eternity, then they passed it on to their heirs. Just speculation ofc.

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Besides, Valyrian steel swords can also be prizes from the field of battle, or awarded by kings for deeds of great honor or valor.

House Mormont got Longclaw around 500 years ago. I believe it coincided with them being awarded lordship of Bear Island, and I believe it was a result of some great service they did to House Stark on the field of battle. Maybe even in a significant war against the Ironborn, perhaps even during the re-conquest of Bear Island itself. Might be that the wrestling story is just a myth, and a Mormont slew the Ironborn champion in single combat, thus getting his Valyrian sword from his dead body.

And the Ironborn champion in turn could have obtained it during some raid in the Reach or the Riverlands.

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Yes, I believe that there are several minor houses with valyrian steel blades. Anyway, I think we can guess that not every valyrian steel weapon is known and with name. For example, the dagger given by Joff to the man who tried to kill Bran was valyrian steel (property of Robert Baratheon). I guess the Crown and some major houses have this king of more modest valyrian steel weapons.

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51 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Besides, Valyrian steel swords can also be prizes from the field of battle, or awarded by kings for deeds of great honor or valor.

House Mormont got Longclaw around 500 years ago. I believe it coincided with them being awarded lordship of Bear Island, and I believe it was a result of some great service they did to House Stark on the field of battle. Maybe even in a significant war against the Ironborn, perhaps even during the re-conquest of Bear Island itself. Might be that the wrestling story is just a myth, and a Mormont slew the Ironborn champion in single combat, thus getting his Valyrian sword from his dead body.

And the Ironborn champion in turn could have obtained it during some raid in the Reach or the Riverlands.

That was my thinking too - I'm sure a lot have changed hands over the years either by conquest or reward.

Also, some are probably kept hidden by those who acquired them dishonestly (e.g. Stolen, pillaged, killed the owner, opportunist in the aftermath of battles) but haven't had the means to rework them to hide their original identity.  I get the feeling that each sword has unique distinguishing features in the steel itself as well as the handle & pommel design.  

If I was feeling a bit tinfoilish, I might suggest that maybe someone has made it their business to acquire and stockpile Valyrian steel.  Varys, Illyrio and Euron all come to mind, as well as the citadel.  Could be for their high value or also because of known magical properties.  Hey, maybe there's an army's worth of Valyrian steel in the crypts of Winterfell!

There may also be lots bought by collectors in rich places like Quarth or distant trade posts like Asshai.  

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15 minutes ago, Maester Egg said:

Tywin gives a Valyrian steel blade to Brienne.  How many more are still sitting in the armories of the Red Keep?

Not Tywin, but Jaime, who received it from Tywin, gave the sword to Brienne. And that was made from the two handed sword "Ice", which was Ned Stark's weapon. I think that there are some valyrian steel weapons in the royal armory, but I don't think they do have additional valyrian steel swords. Just the ocasional dagger.

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6 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

It also bolsters the fact that the total number of noble Houses is vastly larger than the Houses that have been named, even in the Glossaries.

For example, just in the North, which is the region we have the most information on from the main series, there are likely around 150 lordly Houses, and probably around 1000 "Landed Knight" Houses. This is extrapolated from Lord Manderly having a dozen lords and 100 landed knights in his domain alone.

So across the entire Westeros, we are probably talking in the region of 1500 lordly Houses, and maybe as many as ten thousand Landed Knight Houses.

The 200 Valyrian blades are distributed between this vast number.

1500 lordly houses? 

White harbour is the fourth densest city in the whole westeros. And it is said it is similar to gulltown. sure they may have like a dozen vassals. But other houses may not have this luxury. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, purple-eyes said:

1500 lordly houses? 

White harbour is the fourth densest city in the whole westeros. And it is said it is similar to gulltown. sure they may have like a dozen vassals. But other houses may not have this luxury. 

 

 

The size of the city is not really linked to the number of lordships. Rather, the land area you rule would be more likely to influence that number. Nevertheless, I have considered Lord Manderly to have more vassal lords than your average Northern lord. Else around 18x12 would have given a number closer to 200 Northern lords, rather than just 150.

Karstark

Mormont

Umber

Bolton

Stark

Hornwood

Locke

Flint of Widow's Watch

Cerwyn

Glover

Tallhart

Ryswell

Dustin

Manderly

Reed

Flint of Flint's Finger

Skagos

Mountain Clans

 

Each of these regions have their share of petty lords. So I have not taken them all to have as many as House Manderly's domain.

Also, two regions could have a similar number of petty lords, but due to varying fertility and wealth the petty lords of one region could each be much more powerful than the petty lords of another region.

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