Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 16 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said: Your answers are all here... Never trust a Sith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Independent George Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Just what do we think Weedon, Cassel, and Kellen Moore were??? Terrible backups? Weeden was their designated backup since last season; the other guys were acquired and thrown in out of desperation. While there's something to be said about a veteran backup, Weeden is terrible. The only reason he's still around is that Mike Holmgren panicked after getting outbid for RG3 and reached for a QB (bringing us full circle), so he still gets '1st round pick' cred in the league the way Trent Richardson does. That's not to say other teams don't also have poor backups, but Romo is 35 with a moderate injury history. This is a good time to look for the next McCown brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrum Aeternum Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 9 hours ago, Independent George said: Why is it that I always felt sorry for Todd Marinovich, but feel nothing but contempt for Manziel? It's not (just) the domestic violence, either; I hated Manziel long before I ever heard about that. For me it's their backgrounds. Manziel fits the precise definition of a spoiled, entitled douchebag, while Marinovich was largely viewed as a victim of his father's manipulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, Independent George said: Terrible backups? Weeden was their designated backup since last season; the other guys were acquired and thrown in out of desperation. While there's something to be said about a veteran backup, Weeden is terrible. The only reason he's still around is that Mike Holmgren panicked after getting outbid for RG3 and reached for a QB (bringing us full circle), so he still gets '1st round pick' cred in the league the way Trent Richardson does. That's not to say other teams don't also have poor backups, but Romo is 35 with a moderate injury history. This is a good time to look for the next McCown brother. My overall point was that you can't just "draft a mediocre back-up." All those guys were drafted to be exactly that. Yes, the Browns reached on Weeden, but he would have been a 2nd or 3rd round pick had they not done that and would have been precisely what you advocate. They have turned out to be terrible back-ups, but they weren't drafted with that in mind. I don't know that I believe there is such a thing in the NFL as a mediocre back-up other than Kirk Cousins or Osweiller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Independent George Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 My overall point was that you can't just "draft a mediocre back-up." All those guys were drafted to be exactly that. Yes, the Browns reached on Weeden, but he would have been a 2nd or 3rd round pick had they not done that and would have been precisely what you advocate. They have turned out to be terrible back-ups, but they weren't drafted with that in mind. I don't know that I believe there is such a thing in the NFL as a mediocre back-up other than Kirk Cousins or Osweiller. That's a fair point, and I agree on the low odds of finding a viable backup in the mid rounds in any given year. I'm just advocating the Walsh theory of taking a chance on a QB every year and hoping one of them turns out ok, even if you've already got a starter. Speaking of Cousins, can we give a little credit to Shanahan here? For all his many faults, the guy has proven absolutely brilliant at two of the most difficult tasks in football: identifying and training up QB talent. He got Pro Bowl level seasons out of Jake Plummer and Brian Griese. Jay Cutler was a rising star under his tutelage. Pre-injury/Snyderized RG3 was a force to be reckoned with. There's got to be someplace in the league that can use him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 35 minutes ago, Independent George said: Speaking of Cousins, can we give a little credit to Shanahan here? For all his many faults, the guy has proven absolutely brilliant at two of the most difficult tasks in football: identifying and training up QB talent. He got Pro Bowl level seasons out of Jake Plummer and Brian Griese. Jay Cutler was a rising star under his tutelage. Pre-injury/Snyderized RG3 was a force to be reckoned with. There's got to be someplace in the league that can use him... Yeah Cousins' excellent season vindicated Shanahan quite a bit. It suddenly makes a bit more sense why he'd consistently speak so highly of a goofy 4th rounder who was frequently a disaster early on. It takes on a different feel now, less about sticking it to RG3 and more about recognizing the mostly intangible qualities that lead to being successful in the league. And, yes, look at his track record. The guy gets more out of QBs and RBs than anyone. His one major weakness is that he's constantly failed at identifying quality DCs. But still guys who bring huge value-adds to an offense aren't just out there generally. He probably should have been hired in this last cycle but it's possible he's still demanding too much control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Independent George Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Andy Reid and Mike Shanahan are the only guys I can think of that have been able to consistently squeeze good performance out of mediocre QBs, and Shanahan's the only one that has been able to consistently ID talent in the first place. How much of an arrogant jerk do you have to be where nobody wants you even though you've got the NFL equivalent of super powers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 3 hours ago, Jaime L said: Yeah Cousins' excellent season vindicated Shanahan quite a bit. It suddenly makes a bit more sense why he'd consistently speak so highly of a goofy 4th rounder who was frequently a disaster early on. It takes on a different feel now, less about sticking it to RG3 and more about recognizing the mostly intangible qualities that lead to being successful in the league. And, yes, look at his track record. The guy gets more out of QBs and RBs than anyone. His one major weakness is that he's constantly failed at identifying quality DCs. But still guys who bring huge value-adds to an offense aren't just out there generally. He probably should have been hired in this last cycle but it's possible he's still demanding too much control. My understanding is that the Niners came down to Kelly and Shanny. Chip wanted to keep Kaep and rehabilitate him. Shanny wanted to ditch him and draft a QB in the first. JedBaalke went with Chip. We'll see what history makes of the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 15 minutes ago, Rhom said: My understanding is that the Niners came down to Kelly and Shanny. Chip wanted to keep Kaep and rehabilitate him. Shanny wanted to ditch him and draft a QB in the first. JedBaalke went with Chip. We'll see what history makes of the decision. It's interesting then that after Kelly got hired that Kaepernick was openly dreaming of being the Jets QB. Anyway it was clearly the right move because ESPN is predicting the 49ers will win the Superbowl next year so that has to feel pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, Jaime L said: It's interesting then that after Kelly got hired that Kaepernick was openly dreaming of being the Jets QB. Anyway it was clearly the right move because ESPN is predicting the 49ers will win the Superbowl next year so that has to feel pretty good. With quality content like that, I just can't believe ESPN is the only Disney property losing money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Just now, Rhom said: With quality content like that, I just can't believe ESPN is the only Disney property losing money... Hey, some of that article was humorous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 9 hours ago, dbunting said: Yes, but reaching for a QB with a top 4 pick, when there are players there that have a proven track record(unlike the guy they keep saying Dallas will pick) against top level college players is less of a crap shoot. It's more like Danielson catching the fly with chopsticks, meanwhile Mr. Myagi(Cleveland) tries and tries and tries...and keeps missing the good players they could have had. The bazooka analogy still holds in this scenario. You may get the fly with the residual explosion (though you won't know it until you can sift through the wreckage). And if you didn't get the fly, you're left explaining to your boss why you blew a hole out of his wall and he fires you then hires someone else to get the fly and now they have to fix the hole you left as well. But either way, there's one hell of an explosion. 6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: Never trust a Sith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 42 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said: *Throws rock at Jacelyn Daggers* The next one will be a safari ball. And make no mistake, PQJ, I have no moral qualms with capturing you and forcing you to battle your kin for an eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Independent George Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Never trust a Sith! Raaaaacist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Pesci Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 ESPN reporting Vontaze Burficts 3 game suspension has been upheld. Pencil in Steelers - Bengals for the Week 4 Monday night game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 On 2/10/2016 at 6:44 AM, Ferrum Aeternum said: For me it's their backgrounds. Manziel fits the precise definition of a spoiled, entitled douchebag, while Marinovich was largely viewed as a victim of his father's manipulations. Huh? Marinovich was an addict, and that is what cost him his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Joe Pesci said: ESPN reporting Vontaze Burficts 3 game suspension has been upheld. Pencil in Steelers - Bengals for the Week 4 Monday night game... Or SNF. Definitely happening though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrum Aeternum Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Swordfish said: Huh? Marinovich was an addict, and that is what cost him his career. Yes, but the prevailing view (at least at the time) was that his dad drove him so hard from a very early age to be the perfect athlete ("Robo QB") that he pushed him into that life of addiction. Now, whether that is an unfair characterization or not I can't say, but it was the perception of the time. Manziel on the other hand has by all accounts lived a cushy life of privilege and entitlement, so he naturally wouldn't engender much sympathy when he fucks up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Ferrum Aeternum said: Yes, but the prevailing view (at least at the time) was that his dad drove him so hard from a very early age to be the perfect athlete ("Robo QB") that he pushed him into that life of addiction. Now, whether that is an unfair characterization or not I can't say, but it was the perception of the time. Manziel on the other hand has by all accounts lived a cushy life of privilege and entitlement, so he naturally wouldn't engender much sympathy when he fucks up. I don't think there's a succesful QB in the last 20 years who wasn't pushed hard by his parents.. or someone.. So i don't buy that excuse. There is a really good article on him here, which i coincidentally jsut stumbled on a couple weeks ago: http://reprints.longform.org/todd-marinovich-the-man-who-never-was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 13 minutes ago, Swordfish said: I don't think there's a succesful QB in the last 20 years who wasn't pushed hard by his parents.. or someone.. So i don't buy that excuse. There is a really good article on him here, which i coincidentally jsut stumbled on a couple weeks ago: http://reprints.longform.org/todd-marinovich-the-man-who-never-was Holy crap. I was at that USC-UCLA game in 1990 that the article recounts. My mom's then-boss, who was always very kind to our family, gave us a couple of tickets. He was a huge USC booster. I went with my good friend at the time, who was a big UCLA fan (I was too, as that was the dominant rooting interest in my group of friends). So we were a couple of thirteen year olds in UCLA gear sitting in the middle of a USC alumni section. What a crazy game that was. Marinovich vs. Touchdown Tommy Maddox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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