NFL Post-Superbowl L : Wheeling Off Into the Sunset

[Jaime L]

1 minute ago, Rockroi said:

Newton looked awful; he completed 18 passes on 41 attempts (43%), no TDs, a pick, 2 lost fumbles; he , horrid game.  He made terrible reads and basically only had a hand-full of really good passes. A huge, huge part of the blame for the loss should fall on him.  

At the same time, the Denver D was the Denver D; it was unbelievable.  As good as any D that has played in a Superbowl in the last 10 years.  How much of that is on Newton v. the O-line (6 sacks) v. the the game plan.  Also, losing a WR to concussions mid game = not good.  Newton is the QB so he should get attention for the loss or the win and that's just the way the universe works.  Brady had a similar game last week, but he put up 300 yards, and had the team in the game the whole time.  

And, yeah, racism is around this one, but that still does not make criticizing Newton per se racism.  I think one thing we can all agree on is that when it came right down to it, neither QB rose to the occasion, but Manning didn't have to and Newton did.  

Yeah, right from the start it looked like the moment was too big for Cam which was surprising for the league MVP and a guy who won a title in college. But he looked too amped up early - a lot of his throws were way high. And the Broncos defense never let him get comfortable. He'd gotten so accustomed to having 4-5 seconds in the pocket, even against really good defenses like Seattle, but Denver seemed to be an entirely different animal, one he wasn't prepared for. And the more it felt like a Murphy's Law game, the more he started pressing. 

I also blame the Panthers coaching staff. Expected more read-option and jet sweeps and misdirection to take the edge of the pass rush. Seemed to be an uninspired game plan. Wade Phillips ate their lunch. Why the fuck was this guy ever out of football? 

[Howdyphillip]

2 minutes ago, Tempra said:

Um, no.  Ware's helmet didn't pose any danger to Newton and his arm would have, at most, swiped at Newton's ankle. The only plausible scenario that doesn't make Newton look like bad is if he thought he would interfere with his teammate recovering the ball.

 

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/2/7/10934554/super-bowl-cam-newton-von-miller-fumble

Ware's helmet would have if he would have kept going forward instead of pulling off. He was heading right for him.

[trickster]

I did not think that the Panthers skill position players would win their matchups. And they could not. So even when Cam had a bit of a time (albeit only on few occasions), he had no one open to throw to. The Denver's D was just awesome, they were as good as the Seattle defense from a couple years back.

I was quite confident about Broncos winning today and even though their offense played worse than my prediction, overall the game went exactly like I thought it would. Brady had the most unstoppable weapon in Gronk and yet the Pats struggled. The Panthers had Olsen who is not in Gronk's class and a bunch of nobodies. Cam needed play makers and he had none. 

 

 

[Fiddler]

So happy for Peyton.  Even though it can be argued, I will always say Peyton is the best I have watched play the game.   Glad he was able to get the second ring (even if it was handed to him on a silver platter).  Now, for the love of all that is holy, I hope he retires.  I do not want to see him try and play next year.

I've never understood the hate Cam gets, but I for one really like him.  Hopefully he will get more chances at a ring.  It sucks that Denver's D was so great tonight that he couldn't manage to overcome his jitters.  I'm even ok with him walking off the podium after the game.  It was obvious that he was devastated and to avoid saying something that people would blast him for, he walked off.  Yeah, it's not the best look, but I can't say how I would handle that big of a disapointment.  Good luck next year Cam.  You were the MVP of the league.

As for the commercials, I thought they were allright.  My favorite, which I don't see mentioned much, was the one with the old astronaught.  As someone who takes care of my elderly father, it struck a cord with me when the son was able to get a reaction out of his father.  I had to fight some tears back.

[trickster]

1 minute ago, Jaime L said:

Yeah, right from the start it looked like the moment was too big for Cam which was surprising for the league MVP and a guy who won a title in college. But he looked too amped up early - a lot of his throws were way high. And the Broncos defense never let him get comfortable. He'd gotten so accustomed to having 4-5 seconds in the pocket, even against really good defenses like Seattle, but Denver seemed to be an entirely different animal, one he wasn't prepared for. And the more it felt like a Murphy's Law game, the more he started pressing. 

I also blame the Panthers coaching staff. Expected more read-option and jet sweeps and misdirection to take the edge of the pass rush. Seemed to be an uninspired game plan. Wade Phillips ate their lunch. Why the fuck was this guy ever out of football? 

Yeah, color me surprised as well by the Carolina game plan. They should have gone more run heavy with jet sweeps and designated runs for Cams. Their receivers were not going to win against the Bronocs secondary. So why not try other things? Not like they were behind by a lot of points. 

[Howdyphillip]

 I also just watched the Cam Newton press interview, and it really wasn't that bad at all. He sat there for a couple of minutes and answered questions. He was honest and respectful, and then he got up and left. He was obviously emotional, but I really don't understand the reaction to it. 

[James Arryn]

12 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

 I also just watched the Cam Newton press interview, and it really wasn't that bad at all. He sat there for a couple of minutes and answered questions. He was honest and respectful, and then he got up and left. He was obviously emotional, but I really don't understand the reaction to it. 

I've often been confused by a lot of heat he gets. Racism doesn't even explain all of it, because he gets shit for things other black players don't get shit for. Maybe not quarterbacks, though. Don't want to lump it all on racism or racism by proxy (ie non-racists' views unwittingly shaped by racially motivated chatter) but it's a better answer than anything else I can think of.

 

On the fumble play I rewatched it and tbh it still looks like I thought it looked. Let's settle this like gentlemen: we'll ask Jaime for his take and agree to disagree with w/e that is.

[Howdyphillip]

 I also just watched the Cam Newton press interview, and it really wasn't that bad at all. He sat there for a couple of minutes and answered questions. He was honest and respectful, and then he got up and left. He was obviously emotional, but I really don't understand the reaction to it. 

I've often been confused by a lot of heat he gets. Racism doesn't even explain all of it, because he gets shit for things other black players don't get shit for. Maybe not quarterbacks, though. Don't want to lump it all on racism or racism by proxy (ie non-racists' views unwittingly shaped by racially motivated chatter) but it's a better answer than anything else I can think of.

 

On the fumble play I rewatched it and tbh it still looks like I thought it looked. Let's settle this like gentlemen: we'll ask Jaime for his take and agree to disagree with w/e that is.

That is hilarious... When in doubt, always ask the Washington fan and then vehemently disagree with him

Come on Jamie... It is up to you now.

[trickster]

I think Manning may come back next year on a much reduced salary laden with incentives and bonuses. Look for Elway to pay Miller and tag Malik Jackson and then get a stud running back. The rest of the key players are all under contract. 

I think Peyton can play better, he has accepted his game manager role. He has the ability to study and get better in Kubiak's offense. 

John Elway's stats in the first SB win were eerily similar to (a little worse than) Peyton's. And he came back.

I hope Peyton retires, but it is not a done deal like most people are assuming.

 

[Jaime L]

7 minutes ago, trickster said:

Yeah, color me surprised as well by the Carolina game plan. They should have gone more run heavy with jet sweeps and designated runs for Cams. Their receivers were not going to win against the Bronocs secondary. So why not try other things? Not like they were behind by a lot of points. 

Agreed. And the run plays they did call were just uninspired runs right up the gut, often into a Wade Phillips blitz. He had no problem bringing extra guys often because of that lack of respect for the Panthers weapons. 

5 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

I've often been confused by a lot of heat he gets. Racism doesn't even explain all of it, because he gets shit for things other black players don't get shit for. Maybe not quarterbacks, though. Don't want to lump it all on racism or racism by proxy (ie non-racists' views unwittingly shaped by racially motivated chatter) but it's a better answer than anything else I can think of.

 

On the fumble play I rewatched it and tbh it still looks like I thought it looked. Let's settle this like gentlemen: we'll ask Jaime for his take and agree to disagree with w/e that is.

 

That is hilarious... When in doubt, always ask the Washington fan and then vehemently disagree with him

Come on Jamie... It is up to you now.

You guys are talking about the fumble that Cam didn't dive to retrieve, yes? I'll be honest when I watched it initially, I thought he definitely should have made more an effort to get it. Yes, he probably would have been throwing himself in harm's way but this is the Superbowl. You gotta lay it all on the line. 

And it wasn't just Cam...it was a team-wide issue. Like after Ward had the INT, stumbled around and then fumbled it...there were 2 Panthers right by the ball and yet it was Trevathan who dived in and recovered it. Broncos just constantly seemed to want it more.

[trickster]

11 minutes ago, Triskan said:

Why does Papa John get to be one of the first people Peyton meets on the field?  Not that I would want this.  That is unbelievably weird.

He was there to deliver that free pizza after Superb Owl

 

[Jace, Extat]

1 hour ago, Jaime L said:

Yeah, right from the start it looked like the moment was too big for Cam which was surprising for the league MVP and a guy who won a title in college. But he looked too amped up early - a lot of his throws were way high. And the Broncos defense never let him get comfortable. He'd gotten so accustomed to having 4-5 seconds in the pocket, even against really good defenses like Seattle, but Denver seemed to be an entirely different animal, one he wasn't prepared for. And the more it felt like a Murphy's Law game, the more he started pressing. 

I also blame the Panthers coaching staff. Expected more read-option and jet sweeps and misdirection to take the edge of the pass rush. Seemed to be an uninspired game plan. Wade Phillips ate their lunch. Why the fuck was this guy ever out of football? 

To be fair, they played a cake schedule and then had both of their playoff opponents completely fail to show up in the first half.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I don't think Peyton likes it when the mountains turn blue.

 

How do I really know it's cold? Sense of touch? Taste? Naw, I've been using those all my life. I want to use my eyes! 

[dbunting]

Damn, well I have to admit I had that one mostly wrong. I expected more out of the Carolina offense. Cam had success running and yet they didn't do much of it, don't understand that since nothing else was working. Carolina's defense played great, just as well as Denvers. Kone Early would have been MVP had the Panthers won, like 3 sacks, forced fumble and INT.

Manning played as I thought he would, not very well. The Denver defense was as good as everyone said it was. They just kept coming and coming. As bad of a season as Manning had I can't see any reason why he would come back again. He missed a lot of time and was benched. When he came back he didn't play very well and he could go out as a champion, what more could you want? Nice to see former Cowboy Demarcus Ware get a ring after suffering on Dallas teams for so long.

[Rockroi]

So, the more I think on it, I think the biggest take-aways from this game were 1) how great the Denver D was and 2) how terrible this game will be, long term, for Newton.  

THe Denver D has been talked to death and there is no need to rehash it.  But Newton's dud of a game would have been bad enough- many players lay an egg in a Superbowl and, well, it happens and everyone moves on.  And I will say outright that I think at least a PORTION of the criticism directed at Newton ios because he's black and because many white Americans are "sleeper-agent-level" racists.  

But the criticism of Newton was his attitude; that he was a cocky, arrogant QB who was a perfect front-runner; he laid in on thick in wins, but when things got tough he became petulant and evasive.  

Lets not mince words, Newton's actual game was putrid; maybe one of the worst SB performances since ... O'Donnell?  Its hard to say.  He threw picks, he fumbled, he could not avoid pressure; and he failed to raise his game when his team needed him to.  All that.  But worse: he was utterly and totally overwhelmed and consumed by the moment.  Cam Newton looked and played small; he seemed lost; throws were too high; he tried to do too much; and most of the day looked like he was not ready.  

Now, when the Superbowl was over, Newton decided to lay a bigger egg in his post-game presser.  He sulked through the questions, just whiny and throwing a mini-hissy fit.  "We lost" etc.  Terribel answers from a multi-millionaire who seemed to, not for the first time this day, shrink when the lights were the brightest,  Now look, as a fan of Darth Hoodie, his post-game press conferences are horrid after a loss; he displays grumpyness and an attitude of "just-how-fast-can-I-get-out-of-here" as Newton.  And his rep has suffered because of it.  Also, who THE FUCK gives a "good" post-loss press-conference?  I mean, other than Brady? 

Newton's post-game conference is now hanging around his neck because its the last image we have of him; and it lived up to the hype that many ascribed to him- that of a pompous and cocky pro-athlete who loves to talk it up when he wins and demands his privacy when he loses.  That was not, at all, a good look for Newton. He is going to have this label on him for a while and his PR people will work to massage the message a bit as the season starts in 2016 (ie: a fluff interview by ESPN: "I could have handled that better" and announcers in the booth saying pre-canned lines "Jim, that just tells me that Cam Newton gets it.").  But right now, the WORST thing Cam Newton could have done was live down to the opinions the "haters" had of him and he did that.  Over and over again.  

The only way Cam Newton can grow out of this now is not to have a good PR campaign or anything like that; but to get to another Superbowl and do something he was utterly incapable of doing this year- act like he's been there before.  

 

[dbunting]

27 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

Now, when the Superbowl was over, Newton decided to lay a bigger egg in his post-game presser.  He sulked through the questions, just whiny and throwing a mini-hissy fit.  "We lost" etc.  Terribel answers from a multi-millionaire who seemed to, not for the first time this day, shrink when the lights were the brightest, .  

 

Not sure where exactly Cam has shrunk before? Was it in the College National championship game where he won? Or the Divisional round where he dominated, or the Conference round where he dominated?

 He and his team didn't win, he made mistakes. He passed for almost twice as many yards as Manning, same amount of INT, he also led his team in rushing. Carolina outgained Denver by over a hundred yards. He fumbled, was strip sacked, same as Manning. It's not like Newton just puked up a fumble, they were forced. Michael Ohr was barely even getting a hand on Ware and Miller as they ran past him to hit Newton.

He also missed some passes and threw way too hard on others. But I don't think he was overwhelmed and crumbled at all. He faced a historically good defense and it showed. As for the press conference, yeah he showed immaturity, or passion, depending on your POV.

Manning played just as poorly but his team was better and hid his performance, otherwise I think most comments everywhere would be "see Manning lost another big game, his legacy is tarnished." When in reality he was carried to the finish line, which is great because that's what a team sport is all about.

[Tempra]

14 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Not sure where exactly Cam has shrunk before? Was it in the College National championship game where he won? Or the Divisional round where he dominated, or the Conference round where he dominated?

Probably when he let Kaepernick superman all over BOA stadium in the playoffs a few years back.

14 minutes ago, dbunting said:

He also missed some passes and threw way too hard on others. But I don't think he was overwhelmed and crumbled at all. He faced a historically good defense and it showed. As for the press conference, yeah he showed immaturity, or passion, depending on your POV.

I would question someone's definition of the word "passion" if they ascribed it to Newton'so post game presser.

[Rockroi]

24 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Not sure where exactly Cam has shrunk before? Was it in the College National championship game where he won? Or the Divisional round where he dominated, or the Conference round where he dominated?

 He and his team didn't win, he made mistakes. He passed for almost twice as many yards as Manning, same amount of INT, he also led his team in rushing. Carolina outgained Denver by over a hundred yards. He fumbled, was strip sacked, same as Manning. It's not like Newton just puked up a fumble, they were forced. Michael Ohr was barely even getting a hand on Ware and Miller as they ran past him to hit Newton.

He also missed some passes and threw way too hard on others. But I don't think he was overwhelmed and crumbled at all. He faced a historically good defense and it showed. As for the press conference, yeah he showed immaturity, or passion, depending on your POV.

Manning played just as poorly but his team was better and hid his performance, otherwise I think most comments everywhere would be "see Manning lost another big game, his legacy is tarnished." When in reality he was carried to the finish line, which is great because that's what a team sport is all about.

Just in fairness to my comments I specifically said that "Terrible answers from a multi-millionaire who seemed to, not for the first time this day, shrink when the lights were the brightest."  IN other words, the lights were bright at the post-game press conference and he looked as bad there as he did during the game where the lights were also bright.  I was not making an over-arching commentary as to Newton's past performances.  

As far as the game itself, he looked really bad.  Some of that was pressure, no doubt, but in many ways the Panthers O-line was better than the Pats one was a two weeks ago and Newton looked worse.  I agree that he passed for "twice as many yards as Manning" but what does that really say?  Manning ALSO had a shitty game; his team didn't NEED for him to play that well (and he didn't).  If you don't think he got overwhelmed and looked lost out there, tha'ts fine, but I also watched the game and he looked pretty terrible.  

If Manning lost, I guess I would have made some jokes about it etc, but Manning played his game: simple passes, nothing daring, let the D win the game and the D won the game.  if the D did not play the game it played, Manning WOULD NOT have been able to win it for them and that would have looked just as awful.  

Because it was awful.  

[Rhom]

4 minutes ago, Tempra said:

Probably when he let Kaepernick superman all over BOA stadium in the playoffs a few years back.

I still get bitter thinking about that... The Niners dominated Carolina and had a younger roster.  Two years later and look where we are.

 

[Maithanet]

9 hours ago, Jaime L said:

The week before the game I was trying to figure out how the Broncos win the game. I got as far as this:

Step 1: Von Miller, DeMarcus Ware and Wade Phillips destroy everything.

Step 2: ?????

Step 3: Superbowl Champs!

Step 2 was a toss up between horrible special teams and bad coaching.

Special teams:  Missed 44 yard field goal, give up a 61 yard return (when punting from the 50?!), multiple stupid special teams penalties make the Panthers drive 75 yards instead of 60. 

Bad Coaching:  Remember how we talked about how the Panthers offense was totally different from the Patriots offense?  Well the Panthers coaches apparently watched the Patriots tape and thought "we should do it like that".  Carolina ran maybe 5 misdirection running plays all game, and for the most part they were successful (3-10 yards).  But they gave that up in the second quarter, never to be seen again.  After that it was just a lot of Cam Newton dropping back and hoping the O line could hold up, which was playing completely into Denver's hands.  Add in some poor throws from Newton and bad drops from receivers, and the Panthers offense just fell apart as the game went on.