Jojen Paste

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Nice. Take that you Bolton-loving, Jojen paste-denying, lizard lions.

Har!

Bolton lovers best remember Lord Leech hid from the lizard-lions when he traveled through the Neck in his posh covered wagon. Pshaw, Roose was afeard of lizard-lions (Reed) and bog devils using their guerrilla tactics.

Weirwood sap. Get the Glenfiddich ready.

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

Consider this...

Quote

He was walking through the crypts beneath Winterfell, as he he had walked a thousand times before. The Kings of Winter watched him pass with eyes of ice, and the direwolves at their feet turned their great stone heads and snarled. Last of all, he came to the tomb where his father slept, with Brandon and Lyanna beside him. "Promise me, Ned," Lyanna's statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood.

This is the start of the Ned's chapter after he warns Cersei and before Littlefinger betrays him. Lyanna's eyes weeping blood suggests to me that death (blood) follows knowledge (what we see). So this suggests to me that Ned's discovery of the twincest will lead to his death and even that the realm will bleed, much like the realm bled after Rhaegar gave Lyanna a blue rose, which is so ironic since the reason The Ned warned Cersei was to keep the realm from bleeding the way it did during Robert's Rebellion. 

Now consider these quotes...

Quote

At the center of the grove an ancient weirwood brooded over a small pool where the waters were black and cold. "The heart tree," Ned called it. The weirwood's bark was white as bone, its leaves dark red, like a thousand bloodstained hands. A face had been carved in the trunk of the great tree, its features long and melancholy, the deep-cut eyes red with dried sap and strangely watchful. They were old, those eyes; older than Winterfell itself. They had seen Brandon the Builder set the first stone, if the tales were true; they had watched the castle's granite walls rise around them. It was said that the children of the forest had carved the faces in the trees during the dawn centuries before the coming of the First Men across the narrow sea.

Catelyn I, Game 2

Quote

 

The sun was sinking below the trees when they reached their destination, a small clearing in the deep of the wood where nine weirwoods grew in a rough circle. Jon drew in a breath, and he saw Sam Tarly staring. Even in the wolfswood, you never found more than two or three of the white trees growing together; a grove of nine was unheard of. The forest floor was carpeted with fallen leaves, bloodred on top, black rot beneath. The wide smooth trunks were bone pale, and nine faces stared inward. The dried sap that crusted in the eyes was red and hard as ruby. Bowen Marsh commanded them to leave their horses outside the circle. "This is a sacred place, we will not defile it."

When they entered the grove, Samwell Tarly turned slowly looking at each face in turn. No two were quite alike. "They're watching us," he whispered. "The old gods."

 

Jon VI, Game 48

Quote

 

All wildling villages looked much alike, though. A huge weirwood grew in the center of this one . . . but a white tree did not mean Whitetree, necessarily. Hadn't the weirwood at Whitetree been bigger than this one? Maybe he was remembering it wrong. The face carved into the bone pale trunk was long and sad; red tears of dried sap leaked from its eyes.

. . .

He turned back to the weirwood and studied the carved face a moment. It is not the face we saw, he admitted to himself. The tree's not half as big as the one at Whitetree. The red eyes wept blood, and he didn't remember that either. Clumsily, Sam sank to his knees. "Old gods, hear my prayer. The Seven were my father's gods but I said my words to you when I joined the Watch. Help us now. I fear we might be lost. We're hungry too, and so cold. I don't know what gods I believe in now, but . . . please, if you're there, help us. Gilly has a little son." That was all that he could think to say. The dusk was deepening, the leaves of the weirwood rustling softly, waving like a thousand blood-red hands. Whether Jon's gods had heard him or not he could not say.

 

Samwell III, Storm 46

Quote

The crofter's village stood between two lakes, the larger dotted with small wooded islands that punched up through the ice like the frozen fists of some drowned giant. From one such island rose a weirwood gnarled and ancient, its bole and branches white as the surrounding snows. Eight days ago Asha had walked out with Aly Mormont to have a closer look at its slitted red eyes and bloody mouth. It is only sap, she'd told herself, the red sap that flows inside these weirwoods. But her eyes were unconvinced; seeing was believing, and what they saw was frozen blood.

The Sacrifice, Dance 62

Quote

 

The boy looked at the bowl uncertainly. "What is it?"

"A paste of weirwood seeds."

Something about the look of it made Bran feel ill. The red veins were only weirwood sap, he supposed, but in the torchlight they looked remarkably like blood. He dipped the spoon into the paste, then hesitated.

"Will this make me a greenseer?"

"Your blood makes you a greenseer," said Lord Brynden. "This will help awaken your gifts and wed you to the trees."

Bran did want to be married to a tree … but who else would wed a broken boy like him? A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. A greenseer.

He ate.

It had a bitter taste, though not so bitter as acorn paste. The first spoonful was the hardest to get down. He almost retched it right back up. The second tasted better. The third was almost sweet. The rest he spooned up eagerly. Why had he thought that it was bitter? It tasted of honey, of new-fallen snow, of pepper and cinnamon and the last kiss his mother ever gave him. The empty bowl slipped from his fingers and clattered on the cavern floor. "I don't feel any different. What happens next?"

Leaf touched his hand. "The trees will teach you. The trees remember." He raised a hand, and the other singers began to move about the cavern, extinguishing the torches one by one. The darkness thickened and crept toward them.

"Close your eyes," said the three-eyed crow. "Slip your skin, as you do when you join with Summer. But this time, go into the roots instead. Follow them up through the earth, to the trees upon the hill, and tell me what you see."

 

Bran III, Dance 34

[Lost Melnibonean]

Quote

"Why won't this three-eyed crow come to us? Why couldn't he meet us at the Wall? Crows have wings. My brother grows weaker every day. How long can we go on?"

Jojen coughed. "Until we get there."

Bran I, Dance 4

[Lost Melnibonean]

I posted this upthread over ago year ago...

Quote

We meet the ghost of High Heart here. . .

Quote

The next day they rode to a place called High Heart, a hill so lofty that from atop it Arya felt as though she could see half the world. Around its brow stood a ring of huge pale stumps, all that remained of a circle of once-mighty weirwoods. Arya and Gendry walked around the hill to count them. There were thirty-one, some so wide that she could have used them for a bed.

. . .

Beside the embers of their campfire, she saw Tom, Lem, and Greenbeard talking to a tiny little woman, a foot shorter than Arya and older than Old Nan, all stooped and wrinkled and leaning on a gnarled black cane. Her white hair was so long it came almost to the ground. When the wind gusted it blew about her head in a fine cloud. Her flesh was whiter, the color of milk, and it seemed to Arya that her eyes were red, though it was hard to tell from the bushes. "The old gods stir and will not let me sleep," she heard the woman say. "I dreamt I saw a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag, aye. I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings. I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted, with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror. All this I dreamt, and more. Do you have gifts for me, to pay me for my dreams?"

Arya IV, Storm 22

So, the ghost is short, old, and white with red eyes, perhaps an albino. And she has prophetic dreams like Jojen, who we recall has eyes the color of moss. (Bran III, Clash 21) And she lives on, near, or under a hill crowned with weirwood stumps. Later, through Jaime, we learn that weirwood never rots, (Jaime, Dance) and that their magical properties apparently survive even after they are cut down (See Jaime VI, Storm 44).

Then we meet Bloodraven, the last greenseer. . .

Quote

Before them a pale lord in ebon finery sat dreaming in a tangled nest of roots, a woven weirwood throne that embraced his withered limbs as a mother does a child.

His body was so skeletal and his clothes so rotted that at first Bran took him for another corpse, a dead man propped up so long that the roots had grown over him, under him, and through him. What skin the corpse lord showed was white, save for a bloody blotch that crept up his neck onto his cheek. His white hair was fine and thin as root hair and long enough to brush against the earthen floor. Roots coiled around his legs like wooden serpents. One burrowed through his breeches into the desiccated flesh of his thigh, to emerge again from his shoulder. A spray of dark red leaves sprouted from his skull, and grey mushrooms spotted his brow. A little skin remained, stretched across his face, tight and hard as white leather, but even that was fraying, and here and there the brown and yellow bone beneath was poking through.

"Are you the three-eyed crow?" Bran heard himself say. A three-eyed crow should have three eyes. He has only one, and that one red. Bran could feel the eye staring at him, shining like a pool of blood in the torchlight. Where his other eye should have been, a thin white root grew from an empty socket, down his cheek, and into his neck.

Bran II, Dance 13

So, greenseers sit in tangled nests of weirwood roots from which they receive nourishments. And Bloodraven, like the ghost is a small albino with a red eye.

Quote

"In a sense. Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. By these signs do the gods mark those they have chosen to receive the gift. The chosen ones are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few, for every song must have its balance. But once inside the wood they linger long indeed. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. Greenseers. "

Bran III, Dance 34

And now we see that greenseers are marked by red or moss-colored eyes, although Jojen insisted he was not a greenseer, but merely possessed of the greensight (Bran I, Storm 9). But it seems likely that the difference between a greenseer and a person with the greensight is more a matter of degree, rather than a different category entirely. We are told greenseers are not robust, and we know that neither Bloodraven, the ghost, and Jojen are robust.

Now here’s what piqued my interest. . .  The ghost is old, and Bloodraven tells us that greenseers don’t live long until they join with the wood. So, the ghost of High Heart must have herself a little weirwood nest under the hill, eh?

And consider this. . .

Quote

"The trees will teach him," said Leaf. She beckoned, and another of the singers padded forward, the white-haired one that Meera had named Snowy locks. She had a weirwood bowl in her hands, carved with a dozen faces, like the ones the heart trees wore. Inside was a white paste, thick and heavy, with dark red veins running through it. "You must eat of this," said Leaf. She handed Bran a wooden spoon.

The boy looked at the bowl uncertainly. "What is it?"

"A paste of weirwood seeds."

Something about the look of it made Bran feel ill. The red veins were only weirwood sap, he supposed, but in the torchlight they looked remarkably like blood. He dipped the spoon into the paste, then hesitated.

"Will this make me a greenseer?"

"Your blood makes you a greenseer," said Lord Brynden. "This will help awaken your gifts and wed you to the trees."

Bran III, Dance 34

So, whom do you suppose was sacrificed for the ghost of High Heart?

I just read this last night...

Quote

The great hill called High Heart was especially holy to the First Men, as it had been to the children of the forest before them. Crowned by a grove of giant weirwoods, ancient as any that had been seen in the Seven Kingdoms, High Heart was still the abode of the children and their greenseers. 

The Riverlands, TWOIAF

[Clegane'sPup]

4 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Now here’s what piqued my interest. . .  The ghost is old, and Bloodraven tells us that greenseers don’t live long until they join with the wood. So, the ghost of High Heart must have herself a little weirwood nest under the hill, eh?

It's possible LM. I mean the Lightening Lord did have himself a little weirwood nest in his hidey hole.

A Storm of Swords - Arya VI      A huge firepit had been dug in the center of the earthen floor, and its flames rose swirling and crackling toward the smoke-stained ceiling. The walls were equal parts stone and soil, with huge white roots twisting through them like a thousand slow pale snakes. People were emerging from between those roots as she watched; edging out from the shadows for a look at the captives, stepping from the mouths of pitch-black tunnels, popping out of crannies and crevices on all sides. In one place on the far side of the fire, the roots formed a kind of stairway up to a hollow in the earth where a man sat almost lost in the tangle of weirwood.

 

 

[Faera]

Ah, this old thing.

I will freely admit that I am a Jojen-paste denier if simply for the narrative sake. I can't quite understand why the consumption of Jojen would have been kept a secret when would have been a lot more impactful if GRRM has simply revealed in the final chapter for Bran in ADWD what had actually been in that Weirwood Paste. Somehow us inevitably finding out in his first or second chapter in TWOW doesn't feel right.

Having said that, I find the whole idea utterly compelling and attractive as an incredibly dark turn in Bran's story. I also must concede that of all of Bran's Fellowship, Jojen's purpose has been served. He even says as much,

Quote

"It is given to a few to drink of that green fountain whilst still n mortal flesh...Most are not so blessed. The gods gave me only greendreams. My task was to get you here. My part in this is done." [Bran III, ADWD]

1

So, while I don't completely buy Jojen Paste in itself, I am fascinated with the idea and the interpretations of passages from the book people have drawn from the back the theory. It's like... I want to believe but I need more. More, I say!

One of my favourite comments here is one of the very earliest ones @chrisdaw 's made about the thematic sense Jojen Paste makes as a sort of bridge point in which Bran either embraces the same darkness as Bloodraven, accepting sacrifices for long-term benefit, or whether Bran will remain true to himself and feel repelled by the deception of BR and the CotF.

On 09/02/2016 at 9:57 AM, chrisdaw said:

Now GRRM has thrown these two together in the cave, where BR and the COTF believe they can work in secret behind Bran's back while they teach him and he grows in not just power but also understanding. They don't have much time before the invasion comes to Westeros, but with what little time they have to work with they can try and teach Bran the nature of the power that is going to be required to save the realm and the necessity of sacrifice. Only there's a budding spanner in the works for their secrecy, Bran need only open one wrong door in Hodor's body for the premature truth to come tumbling out.

 

The reason I like this thought is that it answers one of the issues I have with Jojen Paste - why it would not have been revealed yet. Due to Bran's incapacity, he is utterly reliant on warging Summer or skin-changing Hodor in order to get about, with the latter being his preferred form to get around the cave because it allows him to go exploring the underground river with Jojen and Meera. From an outside point of view, his entire concept of time and goings-on in the cave are up for grabs. In the books, his use of Hodor's body is completely unknown to Meera, Jojen and (as far as we know) to Bloodraven and the CotF. When the question of whether it is Hodor or Bran carrying the torch and sword through the caves, the text ominously states, 'No one must ever know.'

We do need to keep the possibility open that at the very least BR might know Bran can do this simply due to the far-reaching influence of his power. That said if he doesn't know Bran is actively taking Hodor's form - Varamyr's prologue demonstrates how difficult it is to seize a human even for a gifted warg and skin-changer - then it does leave the door wide open for Bran to bust the whole operation. Given Bran already has misgivings about the cave, his fate of being "married to the tree" and even being fairly creeped out by Bloodraven, finding out that they had fed him Jojen's flesh...

I wonder how much Jojen has disclosed to Meera about "the day [he'll] die" and whether she knows how and why it will happen. He's pretty deadset that his dreams are always right, one way or the other, so there is no reason he would keep it from her. But this line has me going around in circles:

Quote

"He's being stupid," Meera said. "I'd hoped that when we found your three-eyed crow . . . now I wonder why we ever came." [Bran III, ADWD]

 

She responds to this after Bran says that Jojen is being brave in facing his fate and not trying to avoid it. The first bit is easy enough to understand as, while Jojen gives himself over to his dreams, Meera is always asking questions and seldom takes anything for granted. The thing that has always puzzled me is what she "hoped" would happen when they found Bloodraven because, throughout the whole journey, she was the one who (again) was constantly bringing up the dangers of going to the 3EC and was cautious of Coldhands. Bottom line: she didn't want to go, Jojen "Jojened" both her and Bran into going. Well, Meera laid out the options for Bran and let him pick what he wanted to do but it still stands. So, what did she hope? I'm still trying to figure it out. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

This appears to help foreshadow or setup Theon's capture of Winterfell...

Quote

"My brother has the greensight," said Meera. "He dreams things that haven't happened, but they do."

"There is no sometimes Meera." A look passed between them; him sad, her defiant." 

Bran IV, Clash 28

But with hindsight, it looks like Jojen's sadness could be related to the knowledge of his fate, and Meera's defiance could be related to her refusal to accept Jojen's fate. 

[chrisdaw]

6 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

But with hindsight, it looks like Jojen's sadness could be related to the knowledge of his fate, and Meera's defiance could be related to her refusal to accept Jojen's fate. 

Yes, that dynamic between them is constant.

What will be interesting is what the lesson is in it for Bran. Is the lesson one of accepting fate like brave Jojen did, leading Bran to the 3 eyed crow to save the world even though he knew they'd kill him. Or is it in rejecting fate Terminator 2 style and fighting like Meera would and implored Jojen to do.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

Again, I might have missed something, but if Jojen paste is real, how doeas Jojen die?

[Lost Melnibonean]

12 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Again, I might have missed something, but if Jojen paste is real, how doeas Jojen die?

I'd put my money on a bronze blade. 

[zandru]

Many will feel foolish, or possibly betrayed, when Winds of Winter comes out with many chapters featuring Jojen. My humble opinion, of course. Who am I kidding? "Humble"? Moi??

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

23 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I'd put my money on a bronze blade. 

You mean the CoTF killing him?

[Lost Melnibonean]

19 hours ago, zandru said:

Many will feel foolish, or possibly betrayed, when Winds of Winter comes out with many chapters featuring Jojen. My humble opinion, of course. Who am I kidding? "Humble"? Moi??

I have spent the last several years on these boards trying to predict where the author is headed. I know a lot of folks have a personal interest in defending characters and their preferred theories, but I don't feel that way. I enjoy it. I am looking forward to seeing how the author gets to wherever it is that he is actually going. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

17 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

You mean the CoTF killing him?

Yeap. 

[Platypus Rex]

21 hours ago, zandru said:

Many will feel foolish, or possibly betrayed, when Winds of Winter comes out with many chapters featuring Jojen. 

Guessing at GRRM's secrets is a game.  If we end up guessing wrong, we may feel disappointed.  It is normal to feel disappointed when you lose at a game.   But most people manage to be good sports about it nonetheless.

There will in most cases be no need to feel foolish or betrayed, if our guesses are wrong.  But that may depend on how rude, arrogant, or contemptuous we have acted towards those who disagree with us.

[zandru]

20 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

But that may depend on how rude, arrogant, or contemptuous we have acted towards those who disagree with us.

I see what you're saying here. Not very supportive.