Why the Catelyn hate?

[lidsa]

It seems to me a lot of people see Catelyn as their real-life bully stand-in.

2 hours ago, PrinceThatWasPromised said:

She was never able to bring herself to love/care for her children's sibling.

 And why would she? He's just a stranger who lives in her home. Ned also didn't care for bastard #732 who worked in the kitchens and possibly played with the kids from time to time.  

2 hours ago, PrinceThatWasPromised said:

She abandons caring for her youngest child when another child is injured.

It would be different if Bran had only been injured, but he was on death's door, he was comatose. The child most in need takes precedence, that's just the way parents work. And Rickon was hardly left to his own devices, he had a castle full of staff to care for him ffs. And why don't you equally blame Ned for abandoning Bran while he was sick?  

2 hours ago, PrinceThatWasPromised said:

She then left her two youngest without any family.

Yeah seriously, how could she leave her two youngest with her eldest, in the care of a wise maester and taken care of by a castle full of staff? The nerve!

2 hours ago, PrinceThatWasPromised said:

She didn't trust her son/king enough to make the correct decision

Seeing as every decision he made was an absolute clusterfuck of stupid, I quite agree with her. And Robb wasn't her king at that time, he was her son, and more importantly she was his regent. That's why his first question when they meet up in Moat Cailin was "will you send me back to Winterfell?" 

2 hours ago, PrinceThatWasPromised said:

and directly undermined them.

If only she had. But she didn't. Which is why Robb's idiocy was never reigned in.

 

2 hours ago, PrinceThatWasPromised said:

Making a big emotional show of love is hardly a good replacement for caring and doing the little things everyday for the people you care about. 

Exactly! That's why soldiers, for example, are never good parents. Or doctors and nurses. Or people who work on oil rigs. Or anybody else who has to be away from home for long periods of time. And where do we even start on Ned, I mean, he moved to King's Landing! Worst dad ever.

2 hours ago, dornishdame said:

she neglects the boy that is, essentially, her step-son.

Jon is not her step-son. A step-child is a child you agree to take care of. Catelyn was never even asked. Jon was just a stranger who lived in her home.

2 hours ago, dornishdame said:

By the time that the above scene takes place, Jon and Catelyn have been living at Winterfell together for almost a decade and a half. He has been raised alongside her own children, apparently normally shares her table at mealtimes. And in all that time, she has never called him by his name.

You can say "pass me the salt" without using a name. And for everything else she could ever have wanted of Jon, she had servants. So did Jon, by the way.

[Slowpoke Martin]

Cat captures Tyrion. Regardless of whatever stupid evidence she might have on Tyrion, just think about her actions.

-arrests son of vicious war criminal Tywin Lannister aka mr.petty

-who is brother to psychotic queen bitch and guy who pushes children out of windows 

Of course all this she does while her family is LITERALLY surrounded by enemies.

The biggest WTF moment is when she trusts Littlefinger of all people, the one person that was embarrassed by both the Tullys/Starks and would have every reason to betray Cat and her family.

It is just so frustrating that she does so many dumb things while GRRM is making her seem like the most intuitive person in the world.

[lidsa]

49 minutes ago, Slowpoke Martin said:

she trusts Littlefinger of all people, the one person that was embarrassed by both the Tullys/Starks and would have every reason to betray Cat and her family.

Except Littlefinger was cool with Lysa, seeing as she was the reason he got his job on the small council. And there were never any rumours that Littlefinger was on the outs with Lysa, the two were living in the same castle for almost a decade.  

You must seriously hate Tyrion and Ned for trusting Littlefinger as well. Tyrion especially didn't act against him, even though Tywin told him to and Tyrion knew he had been framed by Littlefinger for Bran's attack.  

53 minutes ago, Slowpoke Martin said:

-arrests son of vicious war criminal Tywin Lannister aka mr.petty

-who is brother to psychotic queen bitch and guy who pushes children out of windows 

Of course all this she does while her family is LITERALLY surrounded by enemies.

She arrests the guy who she was led to believe had attacked Bran. She arrested him because she couldn't let him go to King's Landing, because her husband said he had everything under control if things were kept secret.

And then Ned went and blabbed to Cersei.

[dariopatke]

In the show I really disliked her, but in the books she is one of my favourites.

Yes, she made a mistake when she took Tyrion, but she learned a lot from that mistake and every advice or every though were in place, even I would have let Jaime.

I really like that she is loyal to her family words, just like her brother and not like her sister (you can use Tully or Arryn, she disrespects both).

Agree with last sentance, she is way better character than Robb.

She and QoT are my favourite female characters and the only ones I really like. Maybe Brienne can go to that list, too.

The only thing I dont like about her is treatment of Jon, he wasnt the one with who Ned was unfainthfuly, but I can partialy understand why she did that, but I strogly opose that behaviour, especialy that It should have been you scene, then I thought that she is sooo bad, after attack on Bran and travel to KL I became to see that she is cool and when she reunited wih Robb and you can see how much trial has changed her, then she bbecame one of my favourites and stayed there until her throat was slit.

I dont like LSH, but I like her work.

3) The whole I'm going to leave my crippled 7 year old son and 3 year old son home while I travel around with my 15 year old son whose a king and surrounded by warriors was a terrible decision. I didn't mind her leaving to KL initially but making the conscious not to return was ridiculous especially for someone who claims to love her kids so much.

That was one of the best descisions she ever made, just think about that, Bran and Rickon are safe in WF with Luwin and Rodrick and Robb needs to lead army, gain trust of his lords and keep ot and he needs someone who can tell him when he is wrong and more importantly he needs someone he can trust and who are those men if she stayed up? Roose or his almost father-in-law? Rickard Karstark? B and R didnt need her as much as Robb did.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

4 hours ago, lidsa said:

Although I am neither, I'm going to say on behalf of wives and mothers that "wives and mothers" are actually all individuals, with unique thoughts, feelings and behaviours.

That was exactly my point. 

[Lord Lannister]

Yet another "why don't people like what I do" thread... the fact of the matter different people are going to have different tastes in what they like and what they don't. That doesn't mean anyone's wrong. You may as well write up an essay about the superiority of your favorite color supported by half truths and subjective logic, because these threads are about that silly.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

6 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

--snip--

His words rang against Catelyn's ears, harsh and cruel as the pounding of a war drum. Her throat was dry as bone. I did this. These two boys died so my daughters might live.

She actually regularly has doubts about her actions and regrets about them. 

But only AFTER they have caused irreparable harm. At the time she gives her advice or makes her decisions, she appears to believe she's infallible because of who she is, rather than because it's a truly well thought out and carefully considered plan. You do realize that every single example you gave in your post was her realizing that she's gone off half cocked and screwed up (or had a bass-ackwards opinion) AGAIN? But it never seems to stop her... even after death. 

[LadyoftheNorth72]

Regarding how Cat treated Jon, I have a hard time discussing it without getting unduly emotional. So I will just say that I sincerely hope LS's every moment is spent being tormented by the shade of Jon's birth mother, whoever she was; since that woman was unable to be a mother to her baby and Cat refused to. 

I guarantee that if something happened to me and my husband remarried a woman who treated my children that way, I'd go Gozer on her ass. Luckily, I know my husband or older kids would get her first. 

[PrinceThatWasPromised]

Jon's no stranger. He's her children's brother as far as they know.

[Woman of War]

13 hours ago, David Selig said:

BTW, I really don't get this forum's obsession in ranking the characters based on how many mistakes they make. It's a novel, not a sporting competition. When they make mistakes, it usually makes for more interesting reading and more chances for character development.

THIS!

and I can very much relate to Cat because the mistakes she makes are those I would probably make in similiar situations - and probably for the same reasons.

She is not passive, not  someone who waits to be rescued, she activelyy takes her own and her family's fate into her own hands. Yes, she does some irrational and overly hasty moves but those characters who act are the ones who make those so very interesting mistakes and move on the plot. 

Apart from that: We need her mistakes to move the story forward.

Really, I do not get this forum's obsession with Cat, why is she so divisive?

[Ruhail]

Why are we comparing shit written characters from an overrated show to a great and well rounded one like Catelyn?

[lidsa]

3 hours ago, LadyoftheNorth72 said:

I sincerely hope LS's every moment is spent being tormented by the shade of Jon's birth mother

I can't even begin to imagine how much you must hate Jon for mistreating two babies.

Smh.

[David Selig]

5 hours ago, LadyoftheNorth72 said:

Regarding how Cat treated Jon, I have a hard time discussing it without getting unduly emotional. So I will just say that I sincerely hope LS's every moment is spent being tormented by the shade of Jon's birth mother, whoever she was; since that woman was unable to be a mother to her baby and Cat refused to. 

I am sure LS couldn't care less about such a shade if he had appeared and would just laugh at how dumb the shade is. Of course Lyanna's shade would come to haunt her since she knows that she would have done the same or worse in Cat's place just like any noblewoman in Westeros.

How can you stand to read the books at all, BTW? Compared to all the terrible acts done even by the good guys, Cat's behaviour towards Jon is extremely minor. Your hero Jon Snow killed a guy for disobeying him, separated a baby from his mother with threats and almost murdered Thorne because he felt insulted by a truthful remark of his. And he's probably the least morally questionable main character.

[HexMachina]

5 hours ago, LadyoftheNorth72 said:

Regarding how Cat treated Jon, I have a hard time discussing it without getting unduly emotional. So I will just say that I sincerely hope LS's every moment is spent being tormented by the shade of Jon's birth mother, whoever she was; since that woman was unable to be a mother to her baby and Cat refused to. 

I guarantee that if something happened to me and my husband remarried a woman who treated my children that way, I'd go Gozer on her ass. Luckily, I know my husband or older kids would get her first. 

But that isn't what happened. Catelyn was already married to Ned when he (supposedly) fathered Jon. So a more apt comparison is your husband bringing home a child, while you were married to him, and saying "Look honey, we have a lodger! Love him!" 

And again, why should Cat have an obligation to mother to a child that isn't hers? There were plenty of other women in Winterfell, let one of them play mother to Jon. 

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, Woman of War said:

THIS!

and I can very much relate to Cat because the mistakes she makes are those I would probably make in similiar situations - and probably for the same reasons.

She is not passive, not  someone who waits to be rescued, she activelyy takes her own and her family's fate into her own hands. Yes, she does some irrational and overly hasty moves but those characters who act are the ones who make those so very interesting mistakes and move on the plot. 

Apart from that: We need her mistakes to move the story forward.

Really, I do not get this forum's obsession with Cat, why is she so divisive?

One issue that came up on a couple of threads about "Did Catelyn Abuse Jon?" was that some people identify Catelyn with step-parents they've got on very badly with.

Catelyn has the worst run of bad luck of any major protagonist in this story.  It's easy criticise her for decisions that turn out very badly, but which, with better luck, could have turned out well.

[Sunandspear]

Catelyn in my opinion is one of the most well-written characters in the series (if not the best-written one). When I was reading her chapters, I could totally believe that she's a real person, that she exists/existed. Maybe that's why people judge her harsher than she deserves. If they can cut some slack to some other characters, because they're characters from a fantasy book, they can't do that with Cat, because Cat seems so real or because they associate her with people from real life like other posters pointed out.

Plus there are also her issues with Jon and considering that Jon's one of the main characters and has got a lot of fans, Cat gets demonized more than she deserves.

I don't deny that she is flawed, that she's made stupid mistakes, but I think she's not a bad person and she's a great character.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

6 hours ago, LadyoftheNorth72 said:

 

I guarantee that if something happened to me and my husband remarried a woman who treated my children that way, I'd go Gozer on her ass. Luckily, I know my husband or older kids would get her first. 

If we were talking about a book set in our own time period then I'd be more inclined to agree with you, but we are not and Jon's situation is not the norm.

Look at Lord Hornwood's bastard, fostered with the Glovers rather than living with Lady Hornwood.

Look at Edric Storm, living at Storm's End rather than at King's Landing with his father and his wife or Brightwater Keep with his mother and her new husband.

Look at Lord Hewwet's bastard daughter "His lordship's bastard daughter," laughed Hotho. "Before Euron took the castle, she was made to wait at table on the rest and take her own meals with the servants."

Very few bastards will have been treated better by the husband/wife of their noble parent than Jon was. The usual thing to have done would have been to foster the child to spare the embarrassment of the noble's partner. Cat was put in a very unusual position for her station.

[Knight Of Winter]

7 hours ago, LadyoftheNorth72 said:

Regarding how Cat treated Jon, I have a hard time discussing it without getting unduly emotional. So I will just say that I sincerely hope LS's every moment is spent being tormented by the shade of Jon's birth mother, whoever she was; since that woman was unable to be a mother to her baby and Cat refused to. 

I guarantee that if something happened to me and my husband remarried a woman who treated my children that way, I'd go Gozer on her ass. Luckily, I know my husband or older kids would get her first. 

And how would you feel if your husband brought home his son by another women that he sired while married to you? Remember, in Westeros divorce is not an option.

[The Egg]

You know what's the worst thing about Cat in the books? She's boring.
She always assumes she's right and she's always wrong, but that's not the problem. The problem is that she's unpleasant to everyone around her and that she bores the reader with a ton of reasoning that are 99% always the same and never, ever bring her anywhere.

She is a well-written and well-rounded chatacter, that's for sure. But why should I like her? She's mostly confined to her motherly love, as if she wasn't a person herself...