Ashur Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 On 10/2/2016 at 0:24 AM, A Song of Ass and Fire said: Not necessarily. One could do a statistical analysis based solely on the data provided in the text. A sort of ladder system, ranking fighters against each other by how they performed in battles described in the text. You wouldn't be able to compare every fighter to every other fighter, but you could make an objective analysis that would be useful once people put their own subjective opinions into it - if you think A is a better fighter than B, and B beat C, who beat D, then you know A is better than C and D. To star with, "fighter" is a far too wide concept. If we separate it in certain fighting modalities (jousting, melee, hand to hand on horseback, archery, etc) we come closer to a more objetive measurement. But even so, the events listed in the books are not enough as to properly rank every character. For example, Brandon Stark... what did we know about him? Yep, everybody says he was great with sword in hand. Probably superb at melee, not so superb jousting. But it is a guess. The only real fact that we do have is him beating Littlenfinger. The only objetive analysis posible is that he is much better than Littlefinger. Same for lots of characters. Black Walder? Great renown, but did we know who he fighted? Blackfish Tully? Gerold Dayne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoren "The Wanderly Crow" Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 23 hours ago, Kenton Stark said: Thank you. I agree with you. The only person that could give accurate rankings would be GRRM himself. I was just trying to stimulate some conversation about the subject, not confirm that my rankings of thought process was the most accurate. Just for discussion shake, which categories would you use to rank the fighters? Maybe, Jousting, Sword fighting, hand to hand close combat, strategy and tactics, endurance, speed, strength, heavy striking weapons, archery, use of environment, defense etc...I feel another topic coming on. Technical abilities could be an important for fighters like Jon or even Bron who is more clever and cunning that strong and fast! Jon would be able to bring ghost into the fight as a special move.. Enough said..someone make the game!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melisandre's White Pubes Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 3 hours ago, Ashur said: To star with, "fighter" is a far too wide concept. If we separate it in certain fighting modalities (jousting, melee, hand to hand on horseback, archery, etc) we come closer to a more objetive measurement. But even so, the events listed in the books are not enough as to properly rank every character. For example, Brandon Stark... what did we know about him? Yep, everybody says he was great with sword in hand. Probably superb at melee, not so superb jousting. But it is a guess. The only real fact that we do have is him beating Littlenfinger. The only objetive analysis posible is that he is much better than Littlefinger. Same for lots of characters. Black Walder? Great renown, but did we know who he fighted? Blackfish Tully? Gerold Dayne? Right, it's impossible to do a good objective grading system, but I was hoping for at least a kind of half-assed objective rating system ("This is what we do know") instead of a thoroughly subjective one, based on the thread title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Stark Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 5 hours ago, A Song of Ass and Fire said: Right, it's impossible to do a good objective grading system, but I was hoping for at least a kind of half-assed objective rating system ("This is what we do know") instead of a thoroughly subjective one, based on the thread title. I was trying to stimulate a discussion. This is a fictional world with fictional characters, so there is no true objective litmus test for ranking the best fighters. I used what I remembered from the text, SSM and my own experience and training in combat arts and competition to validate the rankings as best I could. It was meant to be fun and I wanted to hear other peoples thoughts on the subject. If the thread title misled you I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Storm Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 On February 9, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Kenton Stark said: I didn't want to side track another poster's thread, so I started a new one. James Steller started a post about the best fighters in Westeros. Great topic but a lot of the lists are arbitrary and very subjective. So I started a list with the fighters given a specific grade. Now I understand the grade is just MHO , but I think I can at least somewhat objectively justify the grade I gave each fighter. Would love to see others thoughts. Feel free to add someone I missed, disagree with my grades, question my rationale, etc. I'm looking forward to hearing what everyone thinks. Arthur Dayne- 98 Gerold Hightower-88 Daemon Blackfyre-96 Aemon the Dragonknight- 96 Daemon Targ- 93 Bittersteel- 92 Fireball--92 Bloodraven- 88 Baelor Breakspear- 92 Duncan the Tall-95 Barristan Selmy- 98 Young Robert Baretheon- 94 Jaime Lannister- 95 Garlan Tyrell- 94 Great Jon- 94 Rhaegar - 88 Loras Tyrell- 93 Halfhand- 90 Mance- 93 Oberyn- 95 Mountain-95 Hound-95 Victorian-90 Andrik- 90 Dagmer- 85 Jorah- 85 Brienne- 93 Blackfish-92 Strongboar- 93 Daemon Sand-87 Roland Storm-88 Iron Emmett-84 Gerold Dayne-75 Balon Swann-92 Areo Hotah- 91 Bronn-86 Lyn Corbray-86 Guy Morrigan-85 Bryce Caron- 85 Phillip Foote-85 Bronze Yohn-92 Robar Royce-85 Arys oakheart- 85 Nute the Barber-80 Hosteen Frey- 81 Black Walder-80 Theon-78 Adam Marbrand- 81 Daven Lannister-78 Jon Snow- 85( could go 92 if matures into promise) Jason Mallister-87 Beric Dondarrion- 86 Thoros-86 Lem-85 Jory Cassel-84 Brandon Stark -92 (Ned's brother) Tormound-85 Asha Greyjoy-76 Donal Noye -78 Ned Stark- 84 Archibald Yronwood,-87 Strong Belwas-92 Khal Drogo-93 Syrio Forel.-93 Daario Naharis-87 Lancel Lannister-70 Trant-75 Blount 65 You seem a bit down on the Iron Islands. Do you think as 1v1 fighters they are inferior and get an advantage on the sea? Just curious I know this is just a fun ranking. Give guys like Belwas and Drogo armor (I bet they wouldn't take it though) and they would be higher up. We saw the value of armor vs pit fighters when Barriston went after Hizdahr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Stark Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 On 2/12/2016 at 4:27 PM, Rob Storm said: You seem a bit down on the Iron Islands. Do you think as 1v1 fighters they are inferior and get an advantage on the sea? Just curious I know this is just a fun ranking. Give guys like Belwas and Drogo armor (I bet they wouldn't take it though) and they would be higher up. We saw the value of armor vs pit fighters when Barriston went after Hizdahr. Good point. I think the Iron Island guys would definitely get some bonus point in a one on one battle at sea, but we haven't seen any Iron Islander that I can think of be successful in a one on one battle against very renowned fighters. They usually have the element of surprise on their side and people are reacting to them. Then they leave before facing assembled talented fighters. Can you think of any I might have missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangover of the Morning Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 What's an objective grading system? Some of these people live hundreds years apart and not all of them had a chance to prove themselves in a battle. The Dragonknight or Daemon Blackfyre might have been best warriors of their time but maybe they would be only average by the current (in-story) standards or vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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