Aemon Stark Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I don't necessarily care whether the new series occurs in the Abramsverse timeline. What matters is that it does not share any of the sensibility of the Abramsverse. In no particular order, I don't want to see product placement (Bud? Nokia???), "red matter" type Maguffins, ludicrous plotting (Kirk... from cadet to instant captain??), or any Michael Giacchino music (barf). That's not to say that the Prime Universe was all quality. Apart from First Contact (and maybe Generations), the TNG movies aren't all that great, though much of this (I believe) had to do with a lack of budgetary commitment from Paramount. The less said about Nemesis the better - it was a mess both from a writing angle and from production values. I don't think there's been a cheaper-looking Trek movie apart from The Final Frontier... and it is still the Holiday Special of Trekdom. Similarly Enterprise felt like a tired retread, following on the heels of Voyager which wasn't exactly the freshest in execution if not necessarily in concept (and it's fair to say that Voyager never lived up to or fully addressed its premise, something Ron Moore talked about extensively after he left the series). My dream (of course) would be a post-DS9 series set in Cardassia (or nearby) as it rebuilds from the Dominion War. That's probably not going to happen, even though the story and character potential is fairly incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Aemon, I'd love to see a post-Dominion War series too. Why is DS9, probably the best of the Trek series, always the bastard step-child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Aemon, I'd love to see a post-Dominion War series too. Why is DS9, probably the best of the Trek series always the bastard step-child? The post Dominion War setting of the Novels is the real deal. Particularly once they dealt with the Borg in a final matter and moved on to a Cold War setting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemon Stark Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I've only ever read The Never-ending Sacrifice by Una McCormack, which covers much of the post-war context. I want so much more. Recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Jaxom, But, in the original series there was a "Cold War" between the Federation and the Klingons. How is the "Typhon pact" anything but a retred? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 It's bigger scale? I don't have a clean answer other than to say that that particular thought never even entered the equation for me, Scot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Criston of House Shapper Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Ok, as a casual Star Trek viewer I have only seen: - TNG, which is kind of boring at times - DS9, which was very fun in the episodes that matter and not so much in those episodes you can place out of order - Voyager, which was one of the first TV shows I ever watched, so I'm a bit nostalgic about it, I liked the crew but it suffers from the same problem as the other shows, the fact that if you take any given episode out of it, nothing changes - Enterprise, which was ok in season 3 and was boring before that and painful to get through in season 4. - the first movie. It's boring, so I decided not to watch any others. So, I'm someone who hasn't seen Into Darkness or the movie before that, I don't recall its name. Can someone explain to me what the JJverse is and how it's different from the normal one? What I'd like to get would be a reboot of DS9 that concentrates on the stuff that matters and is part of a continuous storyline, because those things are what's great about Star Trek, the world-building and the technology, they've just never really made a compelling story. Who really wants to see that whole timetravelling bullshit they do sometimes? So, I'd like a DS9 that concentrates on the Dominion War, the Marquis, the Klingon power struggles, the Bajoran vs Cardassians relationship, the prophets, that sort of stuff. I know this will never happen, but it would be great. Or maybe I'm just rambling nonsense at this point. Edit: I just mispronounced Cardassians as Kardashians in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 30 minutes ago, Criston of House Shapper said: So, I'm someone who hasn't seen Into Darkness or the movie before that, I don't recall its name. Can someone explain to me what the JJverse is and how it's different from the normal one? Basically in the 2009 Star Trek movie somebody travels back in time to when Kirk and his crew are still cadets, and does things that will cause stuff to play out differently this time around. Explaining more about how it's different would enter spoiler territory. But stylistically the two JJ Abrams movies were different from the previous Star Trek stuff. More action-y. Into Darkness had a terrible plot that just re-hashed Wrath of Kahn for the third time. Also I would totally watch Keeping up with the Cardassians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 37 minutes ago, Criston of House Shapper said: - the first movie. It's boring, so I decided not to watch any others. I have seen the first film but I can hardly remember anything about it other than the general premise. It's not really representative of the other films, I'd say the other films are more interesting although not always in a good way. I'd say Wrath of Khan, The Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country and First Contact are definitely worth watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 54 minutes ago, Criston of House Shapper said: Ok, as a casual Star Trek viewer I have only seen: - What I'd like to get would be a reboot of DS9 that concentrates on the stuff that matters and is part of a continuous storyline, or you could watch Babylon 5. Show was ahead of the curve with having multiseason arcs and while there are still in-between episodes it's very rare they have absolutely nothing to do with a story arc be it plot or character based. There's a show I'd like to see someone have a crack at again. Not that there's much reason to as it has everything there already. Maybe someone should make another show like it at least. 18 hours ago, Aemon Stark said: I don't necessarily care whether the new series occurs in the Abramsverse timeline. What matters is that it does not share any of the sensibility of the Abramsverse. In no particular order, I don't want to see product placement (Bud? Nokia???), "red matter" type Maguffins, ludicrous plotting (Kirk... from cadet to instant captain??), or any Michael Giacchino music (barf). Exactly. They could make an excellent show set in the Abramsverse that embraces all the good elements of the TV show. It'd be hard to manage a weekly version of Into Darkness (although the writers of "flash" are consistently good at writing nonsense science) in terms of SFX/Action. A part of me is dreaming that Fuller brings some of the Hannibal cast with him. LAwrence Fishburne as a captain. Hugh Darcy as the scientist, Mads Mikelsen as whoever the hell he wants. I'd be confident that Fuller would concoct some really quirky/interesting crewmates and he usually gets good actors even if none of the above are involved. The weird thing with new trek is that pretty much the entire cast are TV available (simon pegg possibly being the exception). None of the others are purely TV stars and many of them have actually done TV in between the Trek films. If they wanted to guarantee a lot of interest a straight up tv show of the films would probably work best. Im only throwing that one out there - I think that would be a very bad thing as it would encourage them to keep the same level of silliness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemon Stark Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Criston of House Shapper said: What I'd like to get would be a reboot of DS9 that concentrates on the stuff that matters and is part of a continuous storyline, because those things are what's great about Star Trek, the world-building and the technology, they've just never really made a compelling story. Who really wants to see that whole timetravelling bullshit they do sometimes? So, I'd like a DS9 that concentrates on the Dominion War, the Marquis, the Klingon power struggles, the Bajoran vs Cardassians relationship, the prophets, that sort of stuff. I know this will never happen, but it would be great. Or maybe I'm just rambling nonsense at this point. Why bother with a reboot? I'm not interested in a remake of existing stories and, really, while that might work for a movie (not in the case of Into Darkness...), it really really doesn't for a TV series*. But you could easily do a series set in the immediate aftermath of the war or 10-15 years later. Whether it would include any DS9 characters I'm not sure - it could - but it could be serialized and character driven. Thankfully that's the trend in TV these days. It would be so great... *Yes BSG was a remake and whatever you might say about the ending, the original 70s series was about as far away as it can get in tone and sensibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 25 minutes ago, red snow said: or you could watch Babylon 5. Show was ahead of the curve with having multiseason arcs and while there are still in-between episodes it's very rare they have absolutely nothing to do with a story arc be it plot or character based. There's a show I'd like to see someone have a crack at again. Not that there's much reason to as it has everything there already. Maybe someone should make another show like it at least. I think I'd definitely prefer a show that's like DS9 / B5 rather than an attempt to remake/reboot either of them. There's plenty of potential to do a DS9-style show somewhere in the Trek Universe without it necessarily having anything to do with Bajor or The Dominion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Did someone above just actually refer to the 4th season of Enterprise as "boring"? That's gotta be a first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 1 hour ago, williamjm said: I think I'd definitely prefer a show that's like DS9 / B5 rather than an attempt to remake/reboot either of them. There's plenty of potential to do a DS9-style show somewhere in the Trek Universe without it necessarily having anything to do with Bajor or The Dominion. Yeah - space station on the border/middle of a dispute is always good fun. It also provides a good excuse for aliens to get together as well (whereas it's not as likely on a spaceship unless they have a strict quota eg you'd expect starfleet to have a crew representative of the Federation races) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Criston of House Shapper Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 10 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said: Did someone above just actually refer to the 4th season of Enterprise as "boring"? That's gotta be a first. No, I said it was painful to get through. It was really bad, over the top and overall not fun. 11 hours ago, Aemon Stark said: Why bother with a reboot? I'm not interested in a remake of existing stories and, really, while that might work for a movie (not in the case of Into Darkness...), it really really doesn't for a TV series*. But you could easily do a series set in the immediate aftermath of the war or 10-15 years later. Whether it would include any DS9 characters I'm not sure - it could - but it could be serialized and character driven. Thankfully that's the trend in TV these days. It would be so great... *Yes BSG was a remake and whatever you might say about the ending, the original 70s series was about as far away as it can get in tone and sensibility. Ok, you're making a lot of sense here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 6 hours ago, Criston of House Shapper said: No, I said it was painful to get through. It was really bad, over the top and overall not fun. Still a first. I've never seen anyone come close to saying what you're saying. Because it's bonkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 I don't remember being particularly impressed by it......it didn't help that after the longest straight arc in Star Trek ever (S3) when we all assumed they'd go home they suddenly threw Alien Nazi's at us. That was dumb, and didn't start of S4 promisingly. There was some good arcs, but then of course they limped to the one of the most hated episodes of any Trek ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Criston of House Shapper Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 42 minutes ago, DaveSumm said: I don't remember being particularly impressed by it......it didn't help that after the longest straight arc in Star Trek ever (S3) when we all assumed they'd go home they suddenly threw Alien Nazi's at us. That was dumb, and didn't start of S4 promisingly. There was some good arcs, but then of course they limped to the one of the most hated episodes of any Trek ever. Yes, exactly, f*ing Alien Nazis. Most of those 2-3 episode arcs in season 4 sucked. And the format was just weird. The mirror universe wasn't fun and the finale was stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Quote I'll concede the finale. It was poorly done, though it might have worked as a concept episode if it hadn't been forced into a series finale. Maybe. Otherwise, you're bonkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 Quote I'd love to see a post-Dominion War series too. Why is DS9, probably the best of the Trek series, always the bastard step-child? There are various arguments to this. One was that the notion that DS9 was the best Trek series was something that really only gained traction after it became clear how weak Enterprise was going to be and there was going to be a big break before any new Trek was made. At the time it was on-air, DS9 certainly had devoted fans but there were a lot of people, including hardcore Trek fans, who absolutely hated it because of the serialisation, the war story (the notion being that it wasn't real Trek because in real Trek the war would have been averted), the Defiant being a warship ("The Federation does not build warships!") and so on. And for certain Trek fans, suggesting DS9 was better than TOS or TNG was heresy. It's only really in the last few years that it's become a widespread opinion. The general audience didn't really care, and Paramount wasn't sure how to sell the show. It's notable that the audience figures spiked for Way of the Warrior ("Look! Klingons!") and Trials and Tribbleations ("Look! Kirk and Spock!") and not much else apart from that. Especially as the producers nuked almost every ratings-grabbing idea Paramount came to them with ("Let's do a Borg episode!", "No"). They did enough to stay on the air and that was enough for them. It reminds me how, for a good few years, Empire Strikes Back was really not regarded as the best Star Wars movie. That opinion only really became widespread in the early 1990s but is now pretty much canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.