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Jon was born in starfall


house of dayne

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I think its obvious that he was not born at the tower of joy...such a small structure would be a poor place to hide a pregnant woman...the text only supports that neds men fought and killed the kingsguard at the tower amd only two left...ned and reed..furthermore it seems obvious that rhaegar and arthur would choose the comforts of the dayne family seat...if we accept that jon must have been born in starfall, ostensibly under dayne care, how does that change your view of jons parentage?

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Then I am sure he is son of Ned and Ashara. 

In this case, Three KG guarded a pregnant lyanna and she delivered a still born after Ned finally met her and then she died.

And jon is the real lord stark, savior as well as sword of the morning and wielder of Dawn, coming from a holy union of quiet wolf and star maiden. His parents secretly married in front of heart tree at harrenhal. 

And ashara killed herself using dawn so she is nissa nissa as well as bleeding star. 

 

 

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Oh, I noticed you mean jon is still son of lyanna and rhaegar but he was born in starfall? 

So jon was kept in starfall and lyanna was sent to toj and died. 

This actually makes a lot sense since Ned is looking for lyanna. It is much safer to hide lyanna somewhere else, so that Rebellion will not find jon when they search for lyanna. People will not notice jon if he did not have lyanna with him. 

KG and rhaegar are so stupid. If they separated jon and lyanna, then nobody needs to die! 

 

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I've always felt that either the TOJ was really located on Dayne land, or it was High Hermitage, which sounds tower like and would explain Darkstar's being dangerous, or at Starfall itself and just lied about it out of fear of retribution. A random tower in the mountains of Dorne, closer to Storms End, manned only by 3 KG, has always been tough to swallow.

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49 minutes ago, house of dayne said:

I think its obvious that he was not born at the tower of joy...such a small structure would be a poor place to hide a pregnant woman...the text only supports that neds men fought and killed the kingsguard at the tower amd only two left...ned and reed..furthermore it seems obvious that rhaegar and arthur would choose the comforts of the dayne family seat...if we accept that jon must have been born in starfall, ostensibly under dayne care, how does that change your view of jons parentage?

1) Not obvious at all

2) What makes you assume it is "such a small structure"?

3) Lynna would be pregnant, not an elephant. She still only needs a standard sized room. Even a small shack overlooking the sea would suffice.

4) Somewhere relatively unknown would be a far better place to hide than somewhere with a larger population able to fess up the secret to others.

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3 minutes ago, Beautiful Bloody Sword said:

I've always felt that either the TOJ was really located on Dayne land, or it was High Hermitage, which sounds tower like and would explain Darkstar's being dangerous, or at Starfall itself and just lied about it out of fear of retribution. A random tower in the mountains of Dorne, closer to Storms End, manned only by 3 KG, has always been tough to swallow.

The most strange thing is that rhaegar, lyanna and two KG can hide in this tower for one year! 

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3 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

1) Not obvious at all

2) What makes you assume it is "such a small structure"?

3) Lynna would be pregnant, not an elephant. She still only needs a standard sized room. Even a small shack overlooking the sea would suffice.

4) Somewhere relatively unknown would be a far better place to hide than somewhere with a larger population able to fess up the secret to others.

To be fair, TOJ must be very small. 

It only has three men as guards. 

It can be taken down by two men (maybe injured too) and a few horses. 

It did not have a name before (as far as we know) . 

I bet it is just a small watch tower which may only fit like 10 people. 

 

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Just now, purple-eyes said:

I guess she can keep bleeding? 

so she gave birth in starfall only to be unhealthy from the delivery and decided to not stay and get better, instead travel to the tower of joy?

ok

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I don't understand how it's obvious. You don't need some incredibly large place to birth a baby. People have babies in cars. Plus a random tower in the middle of the desert is a better hiding place than a castle everyone knows about. And she died in a pool of blood, which is why most people believe that she had a baby to begin with. So if she didn't have the baby at TOJ where did the blood come from? Regardless, if the pool of blood doesn't indicate a birth the whole theory falls apart anyway.

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1 hour ago, house of dayne said:

I think its obvious that he was not born at the tower of joy...such a small structure would be a poor place to hide a pregnant woman...the text only supports that neds men fought and killed the kingsguard at the tower amd only two left...ned and reed..furthermore it seems obvious that rhaegar and arthur would choose the comforts of the dayne family seat...if we accept that jon must have been born in starfall, ostensibly under dayne care, how does that change your view of jons parentage?

Jon was born at the Tower of Joy, but it's his parentage that is in question.  I am convinced that Lyanna was the mother of that cur.  I am not at all convinced that Rhaegar was the father.  Lyanna was already pregnant when Rhaegar supposedly kidnapped her.  I suspect she was running away, a damsel in need of rescue. 

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47 minutes ago, Nozlym said:

so she gave birth in starfall only to be unhealthy from the delivery and decided to not stay and get better, instead travel to the tower of joy?

ok

It is hard, but for the secrecy, especially to protect jon from being found by rebellion, I think she would agree to be moved even she is sick. 

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1 hour ago, Nozlym said:

so she gave birth in starfall only to be unhealthy from the delivery and decided to not stay and get better, instead travel to the tower of joy?

ok

 

59 minutes ago, Beautiful Bloody Sword said:

Because that's what happens during giving birth, no matter where you are.

WHERE is it stated in the text that the blood is from child birth? She could have gotten stabbed for all we know! 

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15 minutes ago, Lame Lothar Frey said:

Jon was born at the Tower of Joy, but it's his parentage that is in question.  I am convinced that Lyanna was the mother of that cur.  I am not at all convinced that Rhaegar was the father.  Lyanna was already pregnant when Rhaegar supposedly kidnapped her.  I suspect she was running away, a damsel in need of rescue. 

If she was pregnant with Jon Snow when Rhaegar supposedly kidnapped her, then Lyanna was pregnant for more than a year. Jon Snow was born around the same time as the sack of King's Landing, according to the author. The Rebellion lasted about 1 year and Lyanna disappeared well before the Rebellion even began.

 

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4 minutes ago, Phénix. said:

 

WHERE is it stated in the text that the blood is from child birth? She could have gotten stabbed for all we know! 

The quotes refer to Lyanna "in her bed of blood". That doesn't necessarily mean that she was lying in a pool of blood, however. "Bed of blood" or "bloody bed" are euphemisms meaning childbirth, the process of childbirth and the location of childbirth. These exact phrases occur several times in the novels and they always refer to the act of giving birth to a child.

 

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1 minute ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

The quotes refer to Lyanna "in her bed of blood". That doesn't necessarily mean that she was lying in a pool of blood, however. "Bed of blood" or "bloody bed" are euphemisms meaning childbirth, the process of childbirth and the location of childbirth. These exact phrases occur several times in the novels and they always refer to the act of giving birth to a child.

 

okay but to say she died of childbirth is still speculation. Is it her bed? we don't know. Who is to say she was the one who gave birth?? land where in the book is "Bed of blood" or "bloody bed" mention? red herring?

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8 minutes ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

If she was pregnant with Jon Snow when Rhaegar supposedly kidnapped her, then Lyanna was pregnant for more than a year. Jon Snow was born around the same time as the sack of King's Landing, according to the author. The Rebellion lasted about 1 year and Lyanna disappeared well before the Rebellion even began.

 

Right around the sack gives a lot of leeway, in a timeline that is problematic to begin with.  The only thing with any kind of precision that was given to us is this, Jon is 8, 9 or so months older than Dany.  In other words, not quite a year but very close.  Even if Lyanna died from childbirth, and this is not even proven, it doesn't mean it was Jon that came out.  The baby could have been stillborn.  Jon was still a baby by then, but certainly not a new-born, squealing little pig of a baby.  Why, or why would Ned stick around to build stone cairns, from a demolished tower at that, when he had a new-born babe to deal with!  Hell, why tear down a secure shelter when you have a newly born baby to deal with!

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Nowhere does it ever say that lyanna was ever at the tower of joy..everyone assumes that...perhaps she was always in starfall and died there in a bloody bed..it makes sense to think that kg left starfall to cut ned off at the pass..the battle took place at toj but the birth did not..to assume that you would need to explain the logistics of ned and reed travelling through dorne alone with nrwborn baby without raising any suspicion in daynish lands...after killing the sword of the morning

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