Jump to content

Which married couple is most in love?


Tom Sevenstreams

Recommended Posts

12 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

He was angry that aerys did something indecent during the bedding. He tried to resign after a drunk aerys commented on her breasts. He was angry when aerys commented on her death too. Something like "a fair flower" stuff. 

I would say Tywin is very sensitive on aerys/Joanna relationship. 

 

Does he really need some ulterior motive to be bad for Aerys abusing his position and molesting his wife?

Does he really need an ulterior motive about resigning when Aerys is publicly mocking his wifes breasts?

The king (very much in his cups) asked her if giving suck to them had "ruined your breasts, which were so high and proud." The question greatly amused Lord Tywin's rivals, who were always pleased to see the Hand slighted or made mock of, but Lady Joanna was humiliated. Tywin Lannister attempted to return his chain of office the next morning, but the king refused to accept his resignation.

We have it on good authority that Joanna wore the pants in their relationship (so to speak), if she was humiliated then he too would have been. How do you think Ned or Stannis would take Robert making such a joke at their expense?

And does he really need an ulterior motive to be angry when he is mocking her death and blaming it on Tywin's pride?

Upon hearing of his birth, King Aerys infamously said, "The gods cannot abide such arrogance. They have plucked a fair flower from his hand and given him a monster in her place, to teach him some humility at last."

This is pretty flimsy evidence, especially when Tywin is noted to be especially prideful over all things. He does not like being mocked and that was what Aerys was doing. Him being pissed off, especially when Aerys is targetting both him and his wife, is a very fair reason for him to be angry without inventing some ulterior motive about it being about Joanna loving Aerys.

 

She may well have been, but the above is not evidence of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Does he really need some ulterior motive to be bad for Aerys abusing his position and molesting his wife?

Does he really need an ulterior motive about resigning when Aerys is publicly mocking his wifes breasts?

The king (very much in his cups) asked her if giving suck to them had "ruined your breasts, which were so high and proud." The question greatly amused Lord Tywin's rivals, who were always pleased to see the Hand slighted or made mock of, but Lady Joanna was humiliated. Tywin Lannister attempted to return his chain of office the next morning, but the king refused to accept his resignation.

We have it on good authority that Joanna wore the pants in their relationship (so to speak), if she was humiliated then he too would have been. How do you think Ned or Stannis would take Robert making such a joke at their expense?

And does he really need an ulterior motive to be angry when he is mocking her death and blaming it on Tywin's pride?

Upon hearing of his birth, King Aerys infamously said, "The gods cannot abide such arrogance. They have plucked a fair flower from his hand and given him a monster in her place, to teach him some humility at last."

This is pretty flimsy evidence, especially when Tywin is noted to be especially prideful over all things. He does not like being mocked and that was what Aerys was doing. Him being pissed off, especially when Aerys is targetting both him and his wife, is a very fair reason for him to be angry without inventing some ulterior motive about it being about Joanna loving Aerys.

 

She may well have been, but the above is not evidence of it.

Sure. I know there is not much firm evidence. But it is an interesting twist. 

By the way, rhaella also said aerys turned her lady into whore. She does not say: my husband was too interested in my ladies. 

And world book is highly towards lannister and tried to make aerys look bad. If they felt they had to write Joanna lost maidenhead to aerys and enjoyed to be paramour, then I think it must be quite public so that they can not say the opposite. Otherwise they can simply say aerys dishonored her or just deleted this part to avoid embarrassing lannister.  

Actually Aerys and tywin's drama over Joanna is too strong, if aerys was completely an outsider, it would not be that dramatic. You see, LF and cat and Ned are never like this. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it ok to mention someone from the past ?
Ageon 1 and Rhaenys seems very much in love, or rather Aegon 1 loved her very much he burnt all the castles in Dorne save Sunspear. After her death he didn't bother to find a new wife or mistress and ignored the rumor about Rhaenys' adultery
Jaehaerys and Alysanne, no mistress mentioned, she was a co-ruler too
Maekar and Dyanna Dayne, he married at young age and it wasn't a political marriage. 
Duncan and Jenny of Oldstone, he surrendered his claim to the throne and chose to wed a commoner instead 
Jaeharys 2 and Shaera, apparently had been in love since they were children and later eloped

Worst marriage is probably Robert and Cersei, Orys and Argella's couldn't be decent too. He killed her father



 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, redtree said:

Is it ok to mention someone from the past ?
Ageon 1 and Rhaenys seems very much in love, or rather Aegon 1 loved her very much he burnt all the castles in Dorne save Sunspear. After her death he didn't bother to find a new wife or mistress and ignored the rumor about Rhaenys' adultery
Jaehaerys and Alysanne, no mistress mentioned, she was a co-ruler too
Maekar and Dyanna Dayne, he married at young age and it wasn't a political marriage. 
Duncan and Jenny of Oldstone, he surrendered his claim to the throne and chose to wed a commoner instead 
Jaeharys 2 and Shaera, apparently had been in love since they were children and later eloped

Worst marriage is probably Robert and Cersei, Orys and Argella's couldn't be decent too. He killed her father



 

She could have hated her father though, to be fair. I think there are a few characters (both in ASOIAF and other works of fiction I can think of) who would be rather pleased by the prospect of their father being killed, as bad as that may sound.

Not saying they were in love of course, but it does remain a possibility. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

She could have hated her father though, to be fair. I think there are a few characters (both in ASOIAF and other works of fiction I can think of) who would be rather pleased by the prospect of their father being killed, as bad as that may sound.

Not saying they were in love of course, but it does remain a possibility. 

Any of Craster's children for example.

I do wonder about Orys and Argella.  Was it a case of "marry me, or die"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, redtree said:

Is it ok to mention someone from the past ?
Ageon 1 and Rhaenys seems very much in love, or rather Aegon 1 loved her very much he burnt all the castles in Dorne save Sunspear. After her death he didn't bother to find a new wife or mistress and ignored the rumor about Rhaenys' adultery

The whole relationship between Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya, is one that I'm keen to find out more about.

Aegon and Visenya were clearly not on good terms, but presumably, stayed together for political reasons.  Visenya was no doubt very keen to promote Maegor, and probably commented endlessly about Aenys' shortcomings.

Did Rhaenys take lovers?  If she did, was Aegon bothered (especially if he was sterile, and could pass off Rhaenys' son as his?)

Did Visenya and Rhaenys love each other, or were they bitter rivals?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

She could have hated her father though, to be fair. I think there are a few characters (both in ASOIAF and other works of fiction I can think of) who would be rather pleased by the prospect of their father being killed, as bad as that may sound.

Not saying they were in love of course, but it does remain a possibility. 

Why would she hate her father? 

I do not remember her father did something bad to her. 

It does sound strange that she married the one who killed her own father and took their lands. 

But I guess she has no other choice. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, purple-eyes said:

Why would she hate her father? 

I do not remember her father did something bad to her. 

It does sound strange that she married the one who killed her own father and took their lands. 

But I guess she has no other choice. 

Any number of reasons - he abused her, she covets his power, he always left the toilet seat up, etc. We don't know anything about their relationship, I'm just throwing out that yeah, it's possible she disliked her father. Not that it's a certainty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

The whole relationship between Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya, is one that I'm keen to find out more about.

Aegon and Visenya were clearly not on good terms, but presumably, stayed together for political reasons.  Visenya was no doubt very keen to promote Maegor, and probably commented endlessly about Aenys' shortcomings.

Did Rhaenys take lovers?  If she did, was Aegon bothered (especially if he was sterile, and could pass off Rhaenys' son as his?)

Did Visenya and Rhaenys love each other, or were they bitter rivals?

They are full siblings. They conquered together. And visenya was mad at her death. So probably they had good relationship. Of course visenya may be a little bitter and jealousy Since aegon favored rhaenys very obviously. 

But for rhaenys's child and grandchildren, obviously visenya did not care that much. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

They are full siblings. They conquered together. And visenya was mad at her death. So probably they had good relationship. Of course visenya may be a little bitter and jealousy Since aegon favored rhaenys very obviously. 

But for rhaenys's child and grandchildren, obviously visenya did not care that much. 

It's not necessarily true that she disliked Rhaenys' children and grandchildren. Her own son more or less ruled alongside Aenys for many years. It is entirely possible she hastened Aenys' death, correct, but this could be viewed more in a Bloodraven kind of way - she is willing to do what is ruthless but necessary to ensure the Targaryen survival, no matter how hard. If she was purely wanting her own son to take the throne, she could have acted long before then. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

She could have hated her father though, to be fair. I think there are a few characters (both in ASOIAF and other works of fiction I can think of) who would be rather pleased by the prospect of their father being killed, as bad as that may sound.

Not saying they were in love of course, but it does remain a possibility. 

It's possible but he didn't only kill her father, he also killed the name Durrandon and its title for eternity. She was supposed to rule as a queen regnant but instead she got degraded only as a consort lady to a strongly rumored bastard and we know how people see a bastard in Westeros world. Her pride must've taken a fall too. 

But i guess it was her only choice if she wanted any Durrandon blood running through Stormland's ruler, which was her best choice. The name might be gone but not the blood. It was either that or Aegon most likely would marry her to some other storm lords. Better Orys than a former liege lord who betrayed her. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

They are full siblings. They conquered together. And visenya was mad at her death. So probably they had good relationship. Of course visenya may be a little bitter and jealousy Since aegon favored rhaenys very obviously. 

But for rhaenys's child and grandchildren, obviously visenya did not care that much. 

 

11 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

It's not necessarily true that she disliked Rhaenys' children and grandchildren. Her own son more or less ruled alongside Aenys for many years. It is entirely possible she hastened Aenys' death, correct, but this could be viewed more in a Bloodraven kind of way - she is willing to do what is ruthless but necessary to ensure the Targaryen survival, no matter how hard. If she was purely wanting her own son to take the throne, she could have acted long before then. 

 

If Visenya hastened Aenys' death (I suspect she did) then I agree it was probably because she saw him as a disastrous king who was on the point of losing Westeros, through his incompetence.

Even her support for Maegor over Aenys' children could be seen in that light.  Maegor was an adult and a proven warrior, and they were facing a major rebellion by the Faith Militant.  She might well have concluded that 13 year old Prince Aegon would be incapable of fighting the rebels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't forget Egg and Betha!

Maybe Dunk and his potential wife.

also I think it is not yet certain if Maekar married for love, although I love that hypothesis.And Bloodraven and Shiera may have had a nice open relationship (or not).

I think Ned and Cat deeply love each other, and Davos loves his wife, but she may be ehm, disappointed in their marriage due to the recent events (like getting 4/7 of their sons killed and then going North and getting himself "killed"). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tywin's situation seems suspicious. 

There is no doubt that he loved her. But she possibly loved aerys at some point in her early life. So we can not say Joanna loved him back. In grrm's world, most people only truly loved one person in whole life. 

Tywin maybe her second choice since she can not marry aerys. (Why did not aerys use polygamy though?) 

Also I think she left Twin to become a silent sister. Remember Jamie's dream? I believe that's his mother and she is very much alive

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...