Which married couple is most in love?

[bryan_targaryen]

Davos and Marya Seaworth seem like a homely couple very much in love. They don't seem like the dramatic couples the sort of Rhaegar and Lyanna, but the persistency of Davos about returning home to his wife and taking care of his children tells a lot.

He apparently cheated on her several times though.

And he's never home

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

Ned and Cat.

Job and Ygritte - not technically married but Ygritte is Jon's wife as far as Wildling customs and laws are concerned. 

Tywin and Joanna.

[NymeriaTheWolf]

- Ned and Cat are a powerful married couple due to the fact their marriage was loveless in the beginning but their love was growing through the years .

- Tywin and Joanna was absolutely a happy marriage .

- Robb and Jeyne : although the fact that her family was plotting with Tywin to kill him But Jeyne Loved him and he also loved her and I believe their nights together was the similar like Robb/Talisa in season 3 ,, mmm may be not that much 

But I agree with most of the replies that most of the true love stories ended sadly like (Renly/Loras) , (Barristian/Ashara) , (Rhaella/Bonifer) , May be that GRRM way of view true love that must be a sad tale 

[Talla Tarly]

Tysha and Tyrion.

Although it only lasted for weeks and ended in an absolute disaster.

[Veloknight]

On 2/10/2016 at 2:00 PM, Unbent_Unbroken said:

That's...a pretty naive view of love. Ned and Cat have a mature, grounded love

Definitely. Ned + Cat are on the list.

On 2/11/2016 at 5:11 AM, redtree said:

 Orys and Argella's couldn't be decent too. He killed her father

On 2/11/2016 at 5:18 AM, HelenaExMachina said:

She could have hated her father though, to be fair. I think there are a few characters (both in ASOIAF and other works of fiction I can think of) who would be rather pleased by the prospect of their father being killed, as bad as that may sound.

Not saying they were in love of course, but it does remain a possibility. 

It's worth noting that, in this society, Argella's situation isn't all that uncommon. It's not as though it was personal between Orys and Argilac, and unlike the fate that some (say, Sansa) looked forward to, she kept her castle and was treated - so far as we know - with all the appropriate dignity. Keep in mind that before this, Argilac was willing to offer her up as a third! wife to Aegon, which couldn't have been thrilling.

On 2/11/2016 at 5:11 AM, redtree said:

Is it ok to mention someone from the past ?
Ageon 1 and Rhaenys seems very much in love, or rather Aegon 1 loved her very much he burnt all the castles in Dorne save Sunspear. After her death he didn't bother to find a new wife or mistress and ignored the rumor about Rhaenys' adultery.
Jaehaerys and Alysanne, no mistress mentioned, she was a co-ruler too
Maekar and Dyanna Dayne, he married at young age and it wasn't a political marriage.
Duncan and Jenny of Oldstone, he surrendered his claim to the throne and chose to wed a commoner instead 
Jaeharys 2 and Shaera, apparently had been in love since they were children and later eloped

On 2/11/2016 at 6:47 AM, SeanF said:

The whole relationship between Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya, is one that I'm keen to find out more about.

Aegon and Visenya were clearly not on good terms, but presumably, stayed together for political reasons.  Visenya was no doubt very keen to promote Maegor, and probably commented endlessly about Aenys' shortcomings.

Did Rhaenys take lovers?  If she did, was Aegon bothered (especially if he was sterile, and could pass off Rhaenys' son as his?)

Did Visenya and Rhaenys love each other, or were they bitter rivals?

I strongly think that Aegon had very serious fertility issues, and that it's quite possible he understood that, so long as Rhaenys could pass off her son as his own, it was the only way the dynasty would survive. Visenya may have thought different - hence the idea that Maegor was conceived through some form of sorcery. I also kind of like the idea that Aegon, while a traditionalist in many ways, was also kind of chill on sexuality - he was poly, he knew it, and he didn't get especially jealous of Rhaenys, so long as their own relationship and succession were secure. The idea that he could bend an entire continent to his will, break all their most sacred laws regarding marriage, and yet in his actual personal relationships not believe he was any better/different than his wives certainly paints an interesting picture of the man. Alternately, he was so deeply in denial that he turned a blind eye - but that seems more like Robert Baratheon to me.

Agreed about the named Targaryen couples. Maekar isn't commented on much, but it's very telling that he never remarried even though he was king for about nine years and a widower the whole time. Also Ned+Cat, Tywin+Joanna, Robb+Jeyne (fuelled by youth and passion, most likely, but no less loving for it). Overall, Westerosi marriages don't have a great track record, but there are a few good examples.

[SeanF]

That's...a pretty naive view of love. Ned and Cat have a mature, grounded love

Definitely. Ned + Cat are on the list.

Orys and Argella's couldn't be decent too. He killed her father

She could have hated her father though, to be fair. I think there are a few characters (both in ASOIAF and other works of fiction I can think of) who would be rather pleased by the prospect of their father being killed, as bad as that may sound.

Not saying they were in love of course, but it does remain a possibility.

It's worth noting that, in this society, Argella's situation isn't all that uncommon. It's not as though it was personal between Orys and Argilac, and unlike the fate that some (say, Sansa) looked forward to, she kept her castle and was treated - so far as we know - with all the appropriate dignity. Keep in mind that before this, Argilac was willing to offer her up as a third! wife to Aegon, which couldn't have been thrilling.

Is it ok to mention someone from the past ?

Ageon 1 and Rhaenys seems very much in love, or rather Aegon 1 loved her very much he burnt all the castles in Dorne save Sunspear. After her death he didn't bother to find a new wife or mistress and ignored the rumor about Rhaenys' adultery.

Jaehaerys and Alysanne, no mistress mentioned, she was a co-ruler too

Maekar and Dyanna Dayne, he married at young age and it wasn't a political marriage.

Duncan and Jenny of Oldstone, he surrendered his claim to the throne and chose to wed a commoner instead

Jaeharys 2 and Shaera, apparently had been in love since they were children and later eloped

The whole relationship between Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya, is one that I'm keen to find out more about.

Aegon and Visenya were clearly not on good terms, but presumably, stayed together for political reasons. Visenya was no doubt very keen to promote Maegor, and probably commented endlessly about Aenys' shortcomings.

Did Rhaenys take lovers? If she did, was Aegon bothered (especially if he was sterile, and could pass off Rhaenys' son as his?)

Did Visenya and Rhaenys love each other, or were they bitter rivals?

I strongly think that Aegon had very serious fertility issues, and that it's quite possible he understood that, so long as Rhaenys could pass off her son as his own, it was the only way the dynasty would survive. Visenya may have thought different - hence the idea that Maegor was conceived through some form of sorcery. I also kind of like the idea that Aegon, while a traditionalist in many ways, was also kind of chill on sexuality - he was poly, he knew it, and he didn't get especially jealous of Rhaenys, so long as their own relationship and succession were secure. The idea that he could bend an entire continent to his will, break all their most sacred laws regarding marriage, and yet in his actual personal relationships not believe he was any better/different than his wives certainly paints an interesting picture of the man. Alternately, he was so deeply in denial that he turned a blind eye - but that seems more like Robert Baratheon to me.

Agreed about the named Targaryen couples. Maekar isn't commented on much, but it's very telling that he never remarried even though he was king for about nine years and a widower the whole time. Also Ned+Cat, Tywin+Joanna, Robb+Jeyne (fuelled by youth and passion, most likely, but no less loving for it). Overall, Westerosi marriages don't have a great track record, but there are a few good examples.

An heir is essential, especially when starting a dynasty. So if Aegon couldn't produce children , then he'd probably be content for both his wives to look elsewhere for a father, so long as it was all handled with discretion.

It would be similar to the way Ser Laenor Velaryon was willing to acknowledge Rhaenyra's children as his, despite not being the father.

In both cases, the alternative would be a hugely embarrassing annulment.

[Shuvuuia]

21 hours ago, bryan_targaryen said:

He apparently cheated on her several times though.

 

And he's never home

I think it depends on what really happened. It's likely he, like many sailors, slept with other women when away from home to satisfy "sexual needs". Does Marya know about it? Is she ok with it as long as it was impersonal sex like masturbation? Do they have an agreement? Would he be ok with Marya sleeping with other men while he is away?

And from the time of Robert's Rebellion to the war of the five kings, he was probably at home more often than he would've been  if he was still a common sailor/smuggler. People often speak how loyal he is to Stannis, but in the books he is constantly thinking of his family and puts his family first, it's just that their whole fortune is tied to Stannis and his cause.

[Raisin' Bran]

I do not know if all of these have been suggested, but I do know that most have.  For my own thought process, I am going to suggest every couple I can think of that fits the criteria of genuine love.

Ned & Cat, Robb & Jeyne, Dany & Drogo, Tyrion & Tysha, Tywin & Joanna, Jon & Ygritte (wilding custom counts), Davos & Marya, Garlan Tyrell & Leonette Fossaway (at least they seemed pleasant with each other at the Purple Wedding, and by themselves from Sansa's POV, Leonette did teach Sansa the high harp).

I could make speculation for Lord Selwyn Tarth, Brienne's father. Brienne recalls her father having a new woman every year (Catelyn VI). It follows that Lord Selwyn did not take a new wife after Brienne's mother died, perhaps out of heart break, despite having no male heir. Of course, Lady Tarth could have been set aside. Though death seems a more likely explanation (Brienne's mother was said to be dead in show), based on Brienne's demeanor.

By the same reasoning, Hoster Tully and Minisa Whent could have been genuinely in love. From Hoster's page on the wiki:

Quote

Minisa died in childbirth with her fourth son, who also died shortly after. Minisa's death deeply saddened Hoster, who never fully recovered.

As a side note, people can be genuinely in love even if they are not "passionate" about the other person. As suggested above, a grounded love is real love. My grandparents have been married for almost 70 years (will be 70 years in September 2016), I can tell they are still very much in love. But I would not consider their love to be a passionate, burning, all-consuming love.

[Dofs]

On 11/02/2016 at 0:38 AM, purple-eyes said:

Grrm remained very vague on Joanna's feeling over Tywin and aerys. This is intentional. He could just say Joanna loved Tywin and aerys was a crazy guy drooling over another man's wife. But he did not. In stead, he put some rumors there.

Imo, I don't think GRRM put much thought into Tywin-Joanna-Aerys thing or into Joanna's character overall. When asked about why Tywin and Joanna got married, he couldn't answer because he didn't remember. In the expanded Westerlands section, posted on his site, the section about Joanna contradicts what's written about her in the Aerys section in the World Book, meaning that what happened between Joanna and Aerys is not something that he really cares about (or else he wouldn't have written two different versions of Joanna's visit in KL in different sections).

Hence I believe he is vague not because he hides something, but because he didn't deem it important enough to mention.

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

Lancel and Gatehouse Ami.

[redtree]

8 hours ago, SeanF said:

I strongly think that Aegon had very serious fertility issues, and that it's quite possible he understood that, so long as Rhaenys could pass off her son as his own, it was the only way the dynasty would survive. Visenya may have thought different - hence the idea that Maegor was conceived through some form of sorcery. I also kind of like the idea that Aegon, while a traditionalist in many ways, was also kind of chill on sexuality - he was poly, he knew it, and he didn't get especially jealous of Rhaenys, so long as their own relationship and succession were secure. The idea that he could bend an entire continent to his will, break all their most sacred laws regarding marriage, and yet in his actual personal relationships not believe he was any better/different than his wives certainly paints an interesting picture of the man. Alternately, he was so deeply in denial that he turned a blind eye - but that seems more like Robert Baratheon to me.

An heir is essential, especially when starting a dynasty. So if Aegon couldn't produce children , then he'd probably be content for both his wives to look elsewhere for a father, so long as it was all handled with discretion.

It would be similar to the way Ser Laenor Velaryon was willing to acknowledge Rhaenyra's children as his, despite not being the father.

In both cases, the alternative would be a hugely embarrassing annulment.

I think Aegon had fertility issue too, which is very common with the Targaryen family. People married young back then and it's weird that at 27 he had no children at all even with 2 wives. Did Visenya and Rhaenys has a lot of miscarriage and stillbirth or simply nothing ? Perhaps Sharra Arryn took notice and that was why she offered Ronnel to be his heir

What i don't believe is that Aenys wasn't his blood, it's like Robert Arryn's case. Jon was a good warrior, tall and handsome when he was young but only produced 1 stillborn until Robyn was born, the weakling who was still breastfeeded until his mother's death. Aenys wasn't as bad, the quote where it said that once he cried for forthnight when he was a baby and people doubted whether he was the Conqueror's son is pretty bonkers, every baby i've known cried all night long during their teething, it could be that Aenys was teething. After Quicksilver hatched he grew up too in the sense of physically and mentally. Compared to Maegor's martial skill off course Aenys was far below him but he was mentioned not to embrassed himself in sword and lance so that means he was a middling fighter. 

Laenor's case is different because it's not because he was infertile but because he was gay. He didn't care about Rhaenyra's love life and in turn Rhaenyra didn't care about his while Aegon loved Rhaenys very much. 

Men simply don't take cuckolding easily, Victarion killed his wife for her affair and what's broke the camel's back for Jaime was Lancel's confession, they both loved their wife/lover so much but after cheating ? It's over for them, maybe like Victarion he loves her still but there's no way a relationship could continue after that. Jaime burnt Cersei's letter, didn't even bother to read the content. I don't think Aegon would be that different

[Veloknight]

21 minutes ago, redtree said:

 Perhaps Sharra Arryn took notice and that was why she offered Ronnel to be his heir

Interesting idea!

Quote

What i don't believe is that Aenys wasn't his blood,

Son or nephew, Aenys is his blood either way.

Quote

Men simply don't take cuckolding easily, Victarion killed his wife for her affair and what's broke the camel's back for Jaime was Lancel's confession, they both loved their wife/lover so much but after cheating ? It's over for them, maybe like Victarion he loves her still but there's no way a relationship could continue after that. Jaime burnt Cersei's letter, didn't even bother to read the content. I don't think Aegon would be that different

Woah, be careful with that brush! It's definitely true that people, as a rule, don't like being cheated on, but it's also more complicated than that. Some people are just polyamarous, and may not feel the same degree of jealousy that you or I might. Furthermore, men and women can love children not of their body, and do so through adoption all the time. It's true that most people might prefer to have their own biological offspring, but Aegon the Conqueror is not most people.

For specific examples, Victarion is a pig, and we know Jaime has been manipulated and used by Cersei for years, turning him into a person he barely recognizes in her schemes and his despondency over his dishonor. When he finds out she's betrayed him physically, he loses any remaining desire to go back into that relationship. But Aegon may have a different kind of marriage to his sisters, and all three of them, despite their personal disagreements, work closely and in concert. Aegon may be called The Conqueror, but the Conquest was a team effort in which the sisters played an equal role, and Aegon seems to have recognized that. It's also fitting, from an author that likes to subvert and play with tropes, that the great warrior who founded a kingdom was unable to perform one of the most basic "manly" tasks a King can have: begetting an heir.

[redtree]

7 minutes ago, Veloknight said:

Woah, be careful with that brush! It's definitely true that people, as a rule, don't like being cheated on, it's more complicated than that. Some people are just polyamarous, and may not feel the same degree of jealousy that you or I might. Furthermore, men and women can love children not of their body, and do so through adoption all the time. It's true that most people might prefer to have their own biological offspring, but Aegon the Conqueror is not most people.

Actually i don't look down on poly relationship as long as all the people involved agree and the commitment made not under duress. It's other people's life so whatever, as long as they are not hurting anyone they should be able to have their way. Aegon perhaps (though i highly doubt it) consented for Rhaenys to had her fun with singers or mummers but passing down her child and made him the heir while Maegor who was his blood available ? It's just difficult to see that

[Veloknight]

Just now, redtree said:

Actually i don't look down on poly relationship as long as all the people involved agree and the commitment made not under duress. It's other people's life so whatever, as long as they are not hurting anyone they should be able to have their way. Aegon perhaps (though i highly doubt it) consented for Rhaenys to had her fun with singers or mummers but passing down her child and made him the heir while Maegor who was his blood available ? It's just difficult to see that

Oh, I didn't meant to imply that you did, just wanted to bring up the possibility.

I have several loosely connected conjectures:

1. He knows he's infertile, and he knows that Maegor is either magically conceived and possibly infertile himself, or suspects that Visenya may have just conceived a bastard with more discretion than Rhaenys. If this "chill Aegon" is fully cognizant of his infertility, it would explain why he wouldn't believe Maegor was his own any more than Aenys (why would he?). It would also explain his behavior after the Hellholt: the Ullers claim to have proof that one or both of his heirs is a fraud, and more damagingly that he is impotent.
   1. a.) Alternately, he accepts that Maegor is his, but thinks that if Maegor takes after his father, then the dynasty is doomed. Since there's no reason to believe Prince and Hand Maegor will ever want for anything, he might just say, "best get on with it" to himself, and start from a line that will last. His own legacy goes beyond his specific line of descent - pretty much the only thing he can know about either of these men is that they are his blood, because they are definitely his nephews.
2. He knows on some level, which is why her affairs don't surprise or hurt him. He's either so besotted with Rhaenys, or sufficiently aware on some level of his infertility, that he ignores the Aenys-Maegor dilemma. He psychologically needs to believe his child with the woman he loves most is his natural heir, even if some part of his mind has already accepted that Aenys is not.

There's a lot of incompatibility in these, and I don't claim to have figured something out - it was just a hunch I had that makes sense to me and adds some color to the characters.

[purple-eyes]

In the reality many sterile men are willing to let his wife get a sperm donor to make a baby by something in vitro. 

I guess this is aegon's case. 

He had two wives so he can not blame rhaenys is barren. He did not take more wives because it would be more embarrassing if none of his new wives can get pregnant. Which is the case of Maegor. 

So he accepted aenys as his son. Visenya obviously used magic, but I think Maegor did not come from aegon's seed either. I agree the speculation that visenya made a male clone of herself (or maybe another man's seed too, but not aegon)

I guess maegor was born like how mel birthed a shadow baby. 

 

[OIL, BLOOD, Water]

Visenya and Aegon

[SeanF]

I strongly think that Aegon had very serious fertility issues, and that it's quite possible he understood that, so long as Rhaenys could pass off her son as his own, it was the only way the dynasty would survive. Visenya may have thought different - hence the idea that Maegor was conceived through some form of sorcery. I also kind of like the idea that Aegon, while a traditionalist in many ways, was also kind of chill on sexuality - he was poly, he knew it, and he didn't get especially jealous of Rhaenys, so long as their own relationship and succession were secure. The idea that he could bend an entire continent to his will, break all their most sacred laws regarding marriage, and yet in his actual personal relationships not believe he was any better/different than his wives certainly paints an interesting picture of the man. Alternately, he was so deeply in denial that he turned a blind eye - but that seems more like Robert Baratheon to me.

An heir is essential, especially when starting a dynasty. So if Aegon couldn't produce children , then he'd probably be content for both his wives to look elsewhere for a father, so long as it was all handled with discretion.

It would be similar to the way Ser Laenor Velaryon was willing to acknowledge Rhaenyra's children as his, despite not being the father.

In both cases, the alternative would be a hugely embarrassing annulment.

I think Aegon had fertility issue too, which is very common with the Targaryen family. People married young back then and it's weird that at 27 he had no children at all even with 2 wives. Did Visenya and Rhaenys has a lot of miscarriage and stillbirth or simply nothing ? Perhaps Sharra Arryn took notice and that was why she offered Ronnel to be his heir

What i don't believe is that Aenys wasn't his blood, it's like Robert Arryn's case. Jon was a good warrior, tall and handsome when he was young but only produced 1 stillborn until Robyn was born, the weakling who was still breastfeeded until his mother's death. Aenys wasn't as bad, the quote where it said that once he cried for forthnight when he was a baby and people doubted whether he was the Conqueror's son is pretty bonkers, every baby i've known cried all night long during their teething, it could be that Aenys was teething. After Quicksilver hatched he grew up too in the sense of physically and mentally. Compared to Maegor's martial skill off course Aenys was far below him but he was mentioned not to embrassed himself in sword and lance so that means he was a middling fighter.

Laenor's case is different because it's not because he was infertile but because he was gay. He didn't care about Rhaenyra's love life and in turn Rhaenyra didn't care about his while Aegon loved Rhaenys very much.

Men simply don't take cuckolding easily, Victarion killed his wife for her affair and what's broke the camel's back for Jaime was Lancel's confession, they both loved their wife/lover so much but after cheating ? It's over for them, maybe like Victarion he loves her still but there's no way a relationship could continue after that. Jaime burnt Cersei's letter, didn't even bother to read the content. I don't think Aegon would be that different

Generally, that's true, but things may be different if you're a king in need of an heir. Even if he wasn't the biological father of Aenys and/or Maegor, at least he could be sure that that their mothers were Targaryens.

[lidsa]

Ned&Catelyn and Jaehaerys&Alysanne are the best couples and "most in love", in my opinion.

[desire]

Prince of dragonflys and Jenny

[Jon's Queen Consort]

11 hours ago, OIL, BLOOD, Water said:

Visenya and Aegon

Aegon almost hated Visenya. His *true* love was Rhaenys.