A 2016 Old Nan refresher. Facts, Possibilities & Speculation.

[Macgregor of the North]

 

I recently done two pieces on the World book Stark family tree, where I determined births etc. from the assumption Cregan was born in 108AC. Part 1. and Part 2. Differed by Cregan having children with his third wife Lynara at different times and it changed the timelines a bit. 

 

However, in both pieces(more possible in part1), it became possible that Willams son Brandon was born at a time that made it possible for D&E to be at WF at the same time as Nan. 

 

I have thought, and still think that D&E do actually arrive at WF in 212-213AC.

If Old Nan arrives a bit later than this then D&E could have stayed on a bit to live with and work for the Starks at WF for a while in return for their help putting the Ironborn reavers led by Dagon down. This probably happened in the end due to Egg contacting his family and Targaryen intervention.

 

Knowing/thinking this obviously lends massive credibility to already speculated possibilities.

Nan and Dunk could have definitely met.

Nan and Dunk could have kissed in the WF gods wood.

Nan and Dunk could have had a child which could have continued a line of children that produced Hodor since we know Nan is Hodors Great Grandmother. 

 

This is from Bran - AGOT, always helpful when thinking on Nan:

 

No one really knew how old she was, but his father said she’d been called Old Nan even when he was a boy. She was the oldest person in Winterfell for certain, maybe the oldest person in the Seven Kingdoms. Nan had come to the castle as a wet nurse for a Brandon Stark whose mother had died birthing him. He had been an older brother of Lord Rickard, Bran’s grandfather, or perhaps a younger brother, or a brother to Lord Rickard’s father. Sometimes Old Nan told it one way and sometimes another. In all the stories the little boy died at three of a summer chill, but Old Nan stayed on at Winterfell with her own children. She had lost both her sons to the war when King Robert won the throne, and her grandson was killed on the walls of Pyke during Balon Greyjoy’s rebellion. Her daughters had long ago married and moved away and died. All that was left of her own blood was Hodor, the simpleminded giant who worked in the stables, but Old Nan just lived on and on, doing her needlework and telling her stories.

 

 

Nan facts:

1. Old Nan came to Wet Nurse for Brandon Stark, Willam Stark and Lyanne Glovers only son after Lyanne died in the birthing bed.

 

2. After the death of Willams son Brandon at three years old of a Summer chill, Old Nan is allowed to stay at WF with her own children.

 

3. Old Nan's confirmed family consists of two sons, two daughters at least, one Grandson, and one Great Grandson named Walder but known as Hodor. 

 

4. Living family left of Old Nan confirmed so far are Walder/Hodor. With Bran and the Cotf at the moment. 

 

5. Deceased family of Old Nan:

a. Two sons both died in RR. (282-283AC)

b. At least Two daughters , married, moved away and died long ago.

c) A Grandson. Killed on the walls of Pyke during Balon Greyjoys rebellion. (289AC).

 

6. In 263-271AC Ned is a boy at WF before he heads to the Vale to be Jon Arryns ward and she is called Old Nan at this time, perhaps meaning she is an older woman at this time. 

 

7. When Old Nan arrives at WF she already has children. Not confirmed if she has both sons and her daughters at this time but 100% at least two children at time of arrival as the quote says she stayed on with her own "children", this leaves it open to speculation she maybe hasn't had all her children by this point. 

 

8. Old Nan knows fucking awesome stories!.

 

Old Nan possibilities:

 

1. Old Nan is from the North.

 

2. Old Nan is a Widow, or a woman that we in modern times class as a Single mother.

 

3. Old Nans arrival at WF could be from 208-217AC.

 

4. For Old Nan to have possibly two children by the time she reaches WF she could be as young as 15-16.(Harsh I know, but life is harsh especially that far back).

 

5. If Old Nan arrived at WF in 208AC and she was 16 she could be born as early as 192AC. ( a wee side note here, Maester Aemon was born 198AC, Died 300AC.).

 

6. If Old Nan arrived at WF in say 212AC and she was 18 she could have been born in 194AC. Another example.

 

7. If Old Nan is say 16-20 years old in 208AC-217AC Then by the time Ned is a boy in 263-271AC she could be in her 70s. 

 

8. If Old Nan is born 194AC. In 271 when Ned leaves for the Vale she is 77 years old. Old Nan indeed!. So this would mean In 298AC Old Nan would be 104 years old. 

 

Sorry to ramble there with examples but it's pretty interesting findings, using these types of calculations we can come close to Nans age and birth date I think, and from that we can place her time of arrival at WF slightly easier.

More Old Nan possibilities. 

 

9. Both Old Nans sons fought and died in 282-283. "If" it was Old Nans sons who came to WF with her in 208-217AC they would be infants then and by 282-283AC would be old men around 70. This is not a likely age to fight in RR at all although I can't rule it out, Barristan Selmy is in his 60s by Meereen battle and he's raring to go.

 

10. It may be more likely The children who Old Nan arrived with and stayed on with could be her daughters. The sons may not be born yet and come later when Nan is settled at WF. 

 

11. Old Nans Grandson who dies at Pyke in 289AC could be Hodors father. Hodor is referred to as a Stable boy. I'm not sure if this refers to him being quite young, possibly around 18 for arguments sake in 298AC, with a birth year of 280AC, so if Hodors father fought on Pyke this could mean he had time to see Hodor reach 9 years of age before going to war. If we go with a possible age of 20 years old for Hodors father at time of birth of Hodor then we could see Hodors father, Nans Grandson, being born around 260AC. All just possibilities of course. 

 

12. Another possibility. If Old Nan births one son by Dunk in 214AC. He would go on to fight in RR and die 282-283AC aged 68-69. BUT if when Dunk heads to the Wall in 233AC he spends time at WF to see Nan and his son and they rekindle old flames, Dunk could leave Nan with another son born 234-235AC who could then go on to be the father of Hodors father. 

I think there could be more meaning behind Dunk going North again other than to see Aemon and Brynden Rivers to the Wall safe. I know they travel by Ship but WF is not a terribly long ride from the Wall and King Egg may give him leave to visit his son while there.

Or alternatively if Nan and Dunk never had a child when he was at WF the first time round he could maybe still have some feelings for her over a romantic encounter with her, like a kiss, and since he is close by around 233AC he may long to see if the young slender brown haired girl from all those years ago is still around. So when they meet up again Dunk could let his feelings get the better of him even though he is a Kingsguard, and forsakes his vows.

 

 

Other Old Nan possibilities/theories:

 

I will stop numbering them as this is getting pretty extensive now, I have a habit of this.

 

It seems Old Nan arrived at WF quite quick to wet nurse for Brandon(Brandons mother dies during birth and I'm not sure how ideal it is to keep a baby alive on Cow/Goats milk or Sugar water). Could Old Nan be from quite close to WF?. Places quite close to WF:

 

Last Hearth/ The Umber household, possible connections to Large Offspring, Giants/Giants blood etc., The Old gods(Nans ancient Northern Knowledge could stem from growing up in an old gods worshipping environment).

 

The Mountain Clans. Possible connections are similar to above.

 

Northern Towns/Castles/Houses closer to WF are Torrhens Square, Deepwood motte, Cerwyn and Hornwood.

 

Molestown. Old Nan could have been a Molestown Wench. Not ideal for a Wet Nurse but this is a dire situation with a Male Starks life at stake. And if my timelines are correct then the great spring sickness may have left the realm around WF short of Lactating mothers at the time so the search went further North. Also Nan may have negotiated herself a better life away from Molestown for her and her family at this point. Also this gives us a chance that "Crows" from the Wall may have gotten Nan with child more than once and filled her head with promises and lies etc. "All crows are liars" could apply here.

 

Nan is a Wildling girl or Spearwive, with possible connections to having Giants blood. This one is interesting but I find it hard to see how even if she is a Wildling girl, how has Nans children managed to end up at WF with her. If Nan is a captured Spearwive on a scouting mission perhaps to WF and is captured then how do the children fit in? And if like ive seen  written on the forums before is true that she is in Raymun's host and captured and used as a Wet nurse then how can the years work out? Long Lake is in 226AC and Brandon is born a while before that obviously.

 

Various Nan speculation:

 

Nan is Shiera Seastar. 

 

Nan is Dornish. Connections to name Nymeria. Also Speculated Nan is Tanselle Too Tall. 

 

One of my own thoughts is that there could be a connection between Old Nan, Hodor, House Frey and House Crakehall. I can't quite figure it all out yet but Crakehalls are mentioned a lot as Big, tall and strong. Also Hodors real name could lend weight to a Frey connection. Lord Walder Frey actually took Amarei Crakehall as his third wife and had seven children, possibly connecting with a descendant of Nans along the line somewhere. So with this in mind is there a possibility that Hodor has the blood of Old Nan which could possibly be mingled with that of Giants, Could Hodor also have the Blood of Dunk in his veins, and along with that could Hodor also have Frey blood as well as Crakehall blood and Genes that contribute to his size and strength. Is it possible Hodor was born outside WF then, and upon his growing up a bit his parents either die or are alive but disappointed at his mental state, freakish size, strength and appearance and ship him back to the only known relative he has. Old Nan back in WF. 

This one here is one ive been thinking on recently and it interests me to think Hodor could have all these connections. It requires a lot of figuring out and hurts my head right now haha but I could possibly spring a theory out of it on its own sometime if it hasn't been covered before. I've not seen a piece on it yet.

 

Anyhow, to wrap up the Old Nan refresher I'll say her current status:

 

Old Nan is currently believed to be held captive at the Dreadfort. 

Some believe her to be dead. Not confirmed by a long shot, I believe she is plot protected. Why would Dreadfort/Bolton men leave a decrepit old woman who can't climb stairs without aid alive? Unless she has vital info. Or GRRM isn't finished with her and we will see/hear Old Nan again.

 

Feel free to poke holes or add anything missed.