The Flash - Alleged Superhero

[Selysin]

13 minutes ago, The_Gallows_Knight said:

So they have a met-human who is not really a killer, is not a hardened criminal and who genuinely needs help, and their solution is to just age him until he dies. Some fucking heroes. 

Well their solution to Barry not having powers anymore was to send Barry out in a costume guaranteed to get him beaten up instead of trying to use Cisco's powers or find another meta who shares their morals. 

[Jon AS]

Because it only almost got him killed last week, why don't we keep Wally in the dark for a while longer? Also, could Wells have sounded any creepier when he told Jessie he would find her no matter where she went? And her roommate just left her alone with the guy who just showed up and whom she clearly didn't really want to talk to? Maybe everybody in this universe is a jerk...

 

But most importantly: OMG guys, it looks like Barry might actually get his speed back!

[RedEyedGhost]

24 minutes ago, Jon AS said:

Because it only almost got him killed last week, why don't we keep Wally in the dark for a while longer? Also, could Wells have sounded any creepier when he told Jessie he would find her no matter where she went? And her roommate just left her alone with the guy who just showed up and whom she clearly didn't really want to talk to? Maybe everybody in this universe is a jerk...

I think it really says a lot about the writers of this show.

 

25 minutes ago, Jon AS said:

But most importantly: OMG guys, it looks like Barry might actually get his speed back!

Inconceivable!

[Dr. Pepper]

I knew this episode would be bad when it starts with the Flash whining about no longer being able to annoy everyone at the coffee shop by speeding through and stealing some joe.  Then we get to more keeping Wally ignorant.  Why oh why do these writers think this is in any way a good idea.  It's stupid.  It never works.  The idea that ignorance would keep certain people safe is the dumbest fucking bullshit I've ever heard.  

I guess Caitlin is picking up some 'evil superhero' tips from Barry as she decides she's going to free the known bad person in this prison inside of the dude in the mask who has been promised help and received none.  Way to go Caity.  

3 hours ago, Jon AS said:

But most importantly: OMG guys, it looks like Barry might actually get his speed back!

Simply shocking!

 

[red snow]

5 hours ago, The_Gallows_Knight said:

So they have a met-human who is not really a killer, is not a hardened criminal and who genuinely needs help, and their solution is to just age him until he dies. Some fucking heroes. 

An 18 year old too. So pretty much a juvenile. They didn't even bat an eyelid. Guess they'd have just imprisoned him if they'd found a non lethal solution.

For some reason Killer Frost sounded like she was Captain Cold throughout the episode. Maybe the actress figured the cold thing would make a good connection?

Jay's motivations continue to be non-sensical. Being addicted to speed/being the fastest one there is would have been fine but now he just wants to be evil because.

I also liked how Barry was at his happiest this week when he got to have Wally grovel in front of him. Some nice character continuity there. I also agree with others in that there's little point keeping him in the dark once it has been established that he gets kidnapped anyhow irrespective of knowing who the Flash is. I'm almost hoping Barry doesn't get his powers back this season and that Wally gets to take over for a while.

Why haven't they tried telling Barry that his true power is himself yet? Bit of an ego pep talk is surely all he really needs as we all know that deep-down Barry is a hero and that all he has to do is believe in himself and the speed force will return.

Is the guy in the mask the real Jay Garrick? It would be a shame for there not to be a genuine one. It's probably not worth bothering about as the writers probably haven't decided yet anyhow.

I haven't watched any Legends episodes yet but was wondering whether the time wraiths have shown up over there? Also, given Barry's bad behaviour regarding the timeline shouldn't Rip Hunter have a word with the Flash?

[Jon AS]

26 minutes ago, red snow said:

I haven't watched any Legends episodes yet but was wondering whether the time wraiths have shown up over there? Also, given Barry's bad behaviour regarding the timeline shouldn't Rip Hunter have a word with the Flash?

No time wraiths on Legends, Rip Hunter is a rogue time traveller and his former bosses are more concerned with getting him than with an actual massive danger to the timeline like Barry.

[Corvinus85]

The Legends team and Barry are in a heated competition over who can fuck up the timeline most.

[red snow]

45 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

The Legends team and Barry are in a heated competition over who can fuck up the timeline most.

Where's a poor time wraith to turn?

[The BlackBear]

1 hour ago, red snow said:

Jay's motivations continue to be non-sensical. Being addicted to speed/being the fastest one there is would have been fine but now he just wants to be evil because.

Well he was kind of a serial killer. Caitlin is presumably the first woman to show him any attention since his mother so he's latched onto her. The relationship now makes far more sense than him being able to fake it when he was still posing as Jay.

[Knight of Ashes]

I guess I'll start with the good bits: I like Harry and Jesse's interaction (in fact, Barry could do with someone like her) and E-2 Caitlin sounding like Leonard Snart was, um, entertaining.

And I'm sure it's unintentionally ironic that Zoom has his own prisons and that thay resemble the ones Team Flash have.

As for Barry losing his powers, that's about as yawn-inducing as the notion of Ollie unleashing a virus on Star City.  Right.

After getting blamed from what Thawne/Wells did and after having just witnessed in close quarters an unfortunate result of the particle accelerator explosion, Harry decides to recreate it, huh?  I should have seen this coming from a light year away.  

I can't really say I'm not gonna watch season 3; Flash has always been my favorite comic-book character so I'll likely carry on with the show. I'm just hoping it won't be as painful as this season has been.

[red snow]

6 hours ago, Knight of Ashes said:

 

And I'm sure it's unintentionally ironic that Zoom has his own prisons and that thay resemble the ones Team Flash have.

 

After getting blamed from what Thawne/Wells did and after having just witnessed in close quarters an unfortunate result of the particle accelerator explosion, Harry decides to recreate it, huh?  I should have seen this coming from a light year away.  

 

In both cases I think characters are being "inspired". Jay probably saw Barry's prisons and thought "I want some of those" while Wells was inspired by the child-man dying as a result of the particle accelerator...

I'd at least hope they'd maybe build the accelerator in the middle of a dessert or attempt to limit innocents from getting powers that turn them evil. Something tells me Caitlin will get hit as they seem to like using her as snow queen.

The CW DC shows have me scratching my head. I really enjoyed Arrow 1-2 and Flash 1 but either my standards have drastically changed or they have nose-dived in quality. I'm almost tempted to rewatch Arrow to see whether the problems were always there but I suspect they weren't. Key factors were probably 1) a manageable cast with focus on the lead, 2) Flashbacks that at least informed us about the lead (and weren't necessarily going to be a permanent fixture of the show) and 3) Manu Bennet.

Ratings wise the flash is solid at around 3.3 million. It swings about quite a bit but it seems that it has a pretty loyal fanbase (even if those figures would mean cancellation anywhere else). Do CW shows get syndicated elsewhere? It seems crazy how Person of interest gets canned with it's far superior figures on the grounds of "not performing well enough". Or do they have a good merchandise deal with it?

Arrow seems to be suffering more but again it never had amazing figures to begin with so CW standards are pretty low. Again, I don't know where the money is made. Do advertisers pay more if a show is watched by a young demographic? If so it must be a lot more.

Looking at Supernatural as a sensible comparison it's had worse figures than Arrow has managed to attain so far so I don't think the CW shows are going anywhere anytime soon. Looking at Smallville's figures, they must really miss those "glory" days as those ratings were stellar and beating Flash and Arrow with ease until season 9. They may also not feel the need to address their approach either.

[Muggle]

Barry losing his powers serves two purposes

1. The show can recreate the "flashpoint paradox scene"

2. So next season Jessie Quick and Kid Flash acquire there powers. Plus a new line of villains.

[Jon AS]

8 minutes ago, red snow said:

The CW DC shows have me scratching my head. I really enjoyed Arrow 1-2 and Flash 1 but either my standards have drastically changed or they have nose-dived in quality. I'm almost tempted to rewatch Arrow to see whether the problems were always there but I suspect they weren't. Key factors were probably 1) a manageable cast with focus on the lead, 2) Flashbacks that at least informed us about the lead (and weren't necessarily going to be a permanent fixture of the show) and 3) Manu Bennet.

I think I've claimed it before, but I think the bad aspects were always part of The Flash's recipe, it's just that it had good aspects that overshadowed the bad. This season is very dull and repetitive (this is the second time this season that Barry needs to get his groove back after facing Zoom, nevermind the obvious parallels between Zoom and Thawne), which makes the negatives stand out.

Arrow wasn't perfect either (talk about understatement...) but its problem is more that it stuck slavishly to the original formula of flashbacks + present day story and refused to let go of characters the writers liked for whatever reason. That's not to say that the screentime that would have been freed up by a different approach would necessarily have been put to good use, but the show would have had a better chance that way (though IMO it's doing better than Flash).

[Kindly Old Man]

10 minutes ago, red snow said:

The CW DC shows have me scratching my head. I really enjoyed Arrow 1-2 and Flash 1 but either my standards have drastically changed or they have nose-dived in quality. I'm almost tempted to rewatch Arrow to see whether the problems were always there but I suspect they weren't. Key factors were probably 1) a manageable cast with focus on the lead, 2) Flashbacks that at least informed us about the lead (and weren't necessarily going to be a permanent fixture of the show) and 3) Manu Bennet.

Ratings wise the flash is solid at around 3.3 million. It swings about quite a bit but it seems that it has a pretty loyal fanbase (even if those figures would mean cancellation anywhere else). Do CW shows get syndicated elsewhere? It seems crazy how Person of interest gets canned with it's far superior figures on the grounds of "not performing well enough". Or do they have a good merchandise deal with it?

Arrow seems to be suffering more but again it never had amazing figures to begin with so CW standards are pretty low. Again, I don't know where the money is made. Do advertisers pay more if a show is watched by a young demographic? If so it must be a lot more.

It's not just you, I also think both Arrow and Flash have had steep declines in quality since S2 and S1 respectively. Flash used to be a fun show back when Barry seemed like a nice guy who enjoyed using his powers for good. Arrow... just everything used to work better. Manu was awesome, but also his whole arc was much more engaging. Neal McDonough could be terrific but his plotline has been kind of disjointed, nothing about it has drawn me in at all. People hate Felicity now because of all the stupidity with her and Olly, but she used to be great when she was the part of the team that leavened all of the emo brooding. 

I'd be surprised if either of these shows go anywhere after next year given that CW just renewed some shows with less than 1/3 of their ratings. From what I've read CW's budgets are significantly cheaper than the other networks. And yeah advertisers are focused mainly on the 18-49 demographic.

[red snow]

1 hour ago, Jon AS said:

I think I've claimed it before, but I think the bad aspects were always part of The Flash's recipe, it's just that it had good aspects that overshadowed the bad. This season is very dull and repetitive (this is the second time this season that Barry needs to get his groove back after facing Zoom, nevermind the obvious parallels between Zoom and Thawne), which makes the negatives stand out.

 

That's true, the corny/stupid aspects were part of the appeal of Flash at first. The villain is repetitive especially when they bring back Thawne every 8 episodes to remind us how similar they are.

53 minutes ago, Kindly Old Man said:

It's not just you, I also think both Arrow and Flash have had steep declines in quality since S2 and S1 respectively. Flash used to be a fun show back when Barry seemed like a nice guy who enjoyed using his powers for good. Arrow... just everything used to work better.

I think this is also part of it. Barry season 1 was a nice guy and a breath of fresh air compared to Olly's dourness. Now he's a sociopath but the worst thing is it's unintentional. At least Olly's lightening up in season 4 was intentional - even if I'm not a fan of it.

[Batman]

So, wait, why did Barry give up his speed again? To save Wally? OK, but Zoom let him go after he agreed. Cisco literally drove him home. And Barry was faster than him thanks to Thawne. Why not just punch him in the face and not allow him time to escape this go around? Because he made a deal? That makes no sense. 

[RedEyedGhost]

4 hours ago, Batman said:

So, wait, why did Barry give up his speed again? To save Wally? OK, but Zoom let him go after he agreed. Cisco literally drove him home. And Barry was faster than him thanks to Thawne. Why not just punch him in the face and not allow him time to escape this go around? Because he made a deal? That makes no sense. 

Because... Well he was gonna... Yeah and then... And don't forget about... ...... .........

Jaxom didn't show up to defend the show this week, so that tells me it was off the charts bad

Has anybody looked at the ratings lately? I feel like they have to be dropping.

 

[red snow]

6 hours ago, Batman said:

So, wait, why did Barry give up his speed again? To save Wally? OK, but Zoom let him go after he agreed. Cisco literally drove him home. And Barry was faster than him thanks to Thawne. Why not just punch him in the face and not allow him time to escape this go around? Because he made a deal? That makes no sense. 

He may do a lot of questionable things but Barry keeps his word - especially when it comes to making the life of a supervillain easier.

 

2 hours ago, RedEyedGhost said:

Because... Well he was gonna... Yeah and then... And don't forget about... ...... .........

Jaxom didn't show up to defend the show this week, so that tells me it was off the charts bad

Has anybody looked at the ratings lately? I feel like they have to be dropping.

 

It's hard to say the last few episodes have fluctuated making it hard to say. There was a downward trend but then there was a boost with the Earth 2 episodes. There hasn't been anything to suggest people are tuning out for good.

[Jon AS]

There's the possibility that some people are doing what several of us have said they'd do in this thread: see out the season, then drop the show.

[red snow]

4 hours ago, Jon AS said:

There's the possibility that some people are doing what several of us have said they'd do in this thread: see out the season, then drop the show.

it's only polite of us. They need to drop a massive set up for the next season being interesting to bring me back next season. Mirror Master and some non-speed based villains would help. Or addressing why Barry is such a dick.