Lady Stoneheart, worst in-law ever?

[Wild _Rover]

if the Blackfish meets up with the BWB with Jayne what do you think LS reaction will be? LS has obviously lost touch with a lot of her humanity and Catlyn wasn't the warmest of people to begin with so i dont know if i would put it past her to blame Jayne for the RW. If she tells the BWB to hang her how do you think it would play out?

[Edd Tollett's One Vote]

If LS decided to hang her I'm sure the BF would go to her defence. I think he knows Jeyne is just an innocent girl, and he's fairly astute. I think he'd realise that Cat wasn't really Cat anymore. 

 

[dariopatke]

Why would she hang her? She seems devoted to Robb. BF would never allow that,too. I see him taking BwB from LSH. And perhaps even start taking castle by castle when everyone else od busy.

[Wild _Rover]

Yea thats where im at basically. Either the BF will save her or the BWB would turn on LSH. 

1 hour ago, dariopatke said:

Why would she hang her? She seems devoted to Robb. BF would never allow that,too. I see him taking BwB from LSH. And perhaps even start taking castle by castle when everyone else od busy.

 She might not hang her but I could def see LSH wanting her dead because she might look at Jayne and feel she's one of the reasons why Robb is dead. Cat was pretty horrible to Jon just for being alive undead Cat seems to be more resentful and full of hate.

[chrisdaw]

Yeah, something has to spur Arya on to deciding that Stoneheart has to go. Jayne is the leading candidate, Elmar might be the lead in.

[Queen Alienor]

Well, LS seems to try and kill pretty much anyone associated with the RW, so it's certainly possible that she'd blame Jeyne. The BF would never let anything happen to Jeyne, though.

It could lead to him taking the leadership of the BwB from LS, or him mercykilling LS, I guess, but I'm not sure.

[Maxxine]

Why would she hang her? She seems devoted to Robb. BF would never allow that,too. I see him taking BwB from LSH. And perhaps even start taking castle by castle when everyone else od busy.

Well she didn't have reason to hang to Brienne, Pod, or Hyle but she still did it. Plus if BwB found out found out about the pardon her family got, that's enough of a link to the RW and Robb's demise for her to find reason even if it's not Jeyne's fault. We know from Brienne's pov she's not thinking reasonably. But if BF is there I agree he wouldn't allow it. Maybe he kills her or gets the Brotherhood to listen to sense. Assuming she doesn't try to hang him too.

But question: How do you kill LS since she's already dead? I know Beric was brought back too and was enough human that you could kill him again. But LS seems more gone than Beric ever was. Is that going to make a difference?

[dariopatke]

Well she didn't have reason to hang to Brienne, Pod, or Hyle but she still did it. Plus if BwB found out found out about the pardon her family got, that's enough of a link to the RW and Robb's demise for her to find reason even if it's not Jeyne's fault. We know from Brienne's pov she's not thinking reasonably. But if BF is there I agree he wouldn't allow it. Maybe he kills her or gets the Brotherhood to listen to sense. Assuming she doesn't try to hang him too.

But question: How do you kill LS since she's already dead? I know Beric was brought back too and was enough human that you could kill him again. But LS seems more gone than Beric ever was. Is that going to make a difference?

She did, I would hang them if I was in her position. She sent Brienne with Jaime and what were the words before Robb's death? "Jaime Lannister sends his regards". From that you conclude that Jaime not only didnt bring your daughters back, but killed your only living son. Now you see Brienne carring sword of your dead husband and wearing Lannister armor, her squire's last name is Payne, who killed Ned? Ilin Payne. Next Brienne seems to be devoted to Jaime and this is evidence that summs suspicions on her loyalty so she is a traitor.

Brienne is the best person in series, but based on information what she has, it is completly reasonable why she decided they should hang. And of course I am not saying she is reasonable, this is only for this descision.

I see that Brynden see what a crazy bitch she is if she wants to kill Jeyne and takes BwB for himself and start to liberate RL with them. House Tully was good to common people and people will rally to his side, remember what Edmure did in the middle of aCoK.

She wont kill Brynden, he was more loyal to Robb than anyone. He held Riverrun until the last moment and surrendered it only when Edmure and baby's life was in danger, "Family, Duty, Honor", true Tully.

Chopping her head of should do the job.

[Wild _Rover]

18 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

 

18 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

But question: How do you kill LS since she's already dead? I know Beric was brought back too and was enough human that you could kill him again. But LS seems more gone than Beric ever was. Is that going to make a difference?

 

You can always cut the head off.

 

 

 

 

 

[SeanF]

28 minutes ago, Wild _Rover said:

 

You can always cut the head off.

That may not be enough.

I guess that burning would do it, though.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Stoneheart doesn't know about Sybell Westerling's betrayal, that was discussed in private with Jaime. Maybe not even Tom o' Sevens - Stoneheart's man inside Riverrun - knows exactly what happened. 

[MaybeINeverSawACamel]

4 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Yeah, something has to spur Arya on to deciding that Stoneheart has to go. Jayne is the leading candidate, Elmar might be the lead in.

I know a lot of people want to see Arya do this, as it shows Arya what unbridled vengeance does to a person, but please GRRM, Send her to the North, to UnJon.

 

Also, Walder Frey may be second worst inlaw. Poor Edmure.

[dariopatke]

That may not be enough.

I guess that burning would do it, though.

How will she recover from that? You could take her arms and legs, but I doubt Brynden would do that to his niece.

Burning certanly seals the deal.

I know a lot of people want to see Arya do this, as it shows Arya what unbridled vengeance does to a person, but please GRRM, Send her to the North, to UnJon.

 

Also, Walder Frey may be second worst inlaw. Poor Edmure.

Oh yes, I am looking for that reunion since they separated at WF and I think WoW is time for that.

Edmure is a good lord and a good man. He certanly didn't deserve everything that happened to him. I hope he gets Riverrun back and perhaps makes his second son Lord of the Crossing, he will be Frey and if they continue to die like flies it just might happen. I cant wait that Stannis pulls Night Lamp on ser Stupid.

[Eden-Mackenzie]

Lady Stoneheart's reaction to Jeyne, should they meet, will greatly depend on whether or not she learns of Sybell Westerling's role in planning the Red Wedding. Of course, once the Westerling's are known to be forgiven and not punished, rumors of the role will likely start to leak out, so the timing of this meeting will be crucial. But like everyone else, I think the Blackfish will prevent her from harming Jeyne. However, should Tyrion ever meet Lady Stoneheart, then yes, she will definitely be a nightmare of a mother-in-law...

I personally think Lady Stoneheart is eventually going to work her way North; Nymeria's wolfpack appears to be moving that way, it's where several of the key perpetrators of the Red Wedding are currently located, where Rickon will likely reappear, and so on. Arya's trail in the Riverlands is about to go cold, there has yet to be a Sansa sighting, so other than Lannisters and Freys there isn't much to keep her in the Riverlands. Her handling of Robb's crown, and her interest in Jaime and Brienne could show she is seeking her children, rather than simply seeking vengeance.   Brienne is going to head North at some point to seek vengeance against Stannis, Stoneheart could easily decide to tag along, she may decide to blame Stannis too, for not supporting Ned, for murdering Renly thereby preventing his alliance with Robb, for calling Robb a traitor, etc.

[mediterraneo]

I'm quite sure she would happily kill Edmure's wife, though and then give him the fault of the Red Wedding.

[dariopatke]

Lady Stoneheart's reaction to Jeyne, should they meet, will greatly depend on whether or not she learns of Sybell Westerling's role in planning the Red Wedding. Of course, once the Westerling's are known to be forgiven and not punished, rumors of the role will likely start to leak out, so the timing of this meeting will be crucial. But like everyone else, I think the Blackfish will prevent her from harming Jeyne. However, should Tyrion ever meet Lady Stoneheart, then yes, she will definitely be a nightmare of a mother-in-law...

I personally think Lady Stoneheart is eventually going to work her way North; Nymeria's wolfpack appears to be moving that way, it's where several of the key perpetrators of the Red Wedding are currently located, where Rickon will likely reappear, and so on. Arya's trail in the Riverlands is about to go cold, there has yet to be a Sansa sighting, so other than Lannisters and Freys there isn't much to keep her in the Riverlands. Her handling of Robb's crown, and her interest in Jaime and Brienne could show she is seeking her children, rather than simply seeking vengeance.   Brienne is going to head North at some point to seek vengeance against Stannis, Stoneheart could easily decide to tag along, she may decide to blame Stannis too, for not supporting Ned, for murdering Renly thereby preventing his alliance with Robb, for calling Robb a traitor, etc.

What Frey is in the North? Big Walder had nothing to do with RW and ser Stupid dies in Asha I or something like that.

The funniest thing is that Stannis could not support Ned, there was no time, we don't know wpuld Robb accept Renly's terms and Robb was a traitor. She failed to see that if Robb bent the knee, Stannis would pardon him.

[Eden-Mackenzie]

1 hour ago, dariopatke said:

What Frey is in the North? Big Walder had nothing to do with RW and ser Stupid dies in Asha I or something like that.

The funniest thing is that Stannis could not support Ned, there was no time, we don't know wpuld Robb accept Renly's terms and Robb was a traitor. She failed to see that if Robb bent the knee, Stannis would pardon him.

I believe Ser Stupid refers to Hosteen, not Aenys, and information from the TWOW sample chapters is supposed to be in spoiler tags. Regardless of which of them has been given this delightful nickname, there are at least the two of them in the North, and there were at least three others (Rhaegar, Jared, and Symond of Frey Pie infamy), not to mention  their men. There are quite a few Freys in the world, it is entirely possible we aren't given a full lineup every time they are present. Lady Stoneheart doesn't seem to be too particular about which Freys she kills, including men-at-arms. Hosteen was one of the Freys ransomed from Tywin, later he is with Roose at Harrenhal, along with Aenys. It's not a terrible stretch to think they may have been involved in the Red Wedding. Roose is in the North as well, currently occupying her home; if I was the one seeking vengeance for the Red Wedding, Roose Bolton would be first on my list. There are plenty of targets for her in the North.

The funny thing is, if Stannis had not fled to Dragonstone, or if he had bothered to respond to any of Ned's letters, there could have been time for him to support Ned, and Ned was supporting Stannis's claim. If I recall correctly, Renly said Robb could be King in the North if he acknowledged Renly as King on the Iron Throne, whereas Stannis said something to the effect of Robb is just as much a traitor in his eyes as Renly, and they will both get what's coming to them. In the eyes of the law, all three of them were traitors. But none of this truly matters, as you yourself said earlier in the thread, Lady Stoneheart is not necessarily the most reasonable creature out there. If she adds Stannis to her list, who is going to speak against it?

[dariopatke]

I believe Ser Stupid refers to Hosteen, not Aenys, and information from the TWOW sample chapters is supposed to be in spoiler tags. Regardless of which of them has been given this delightful nickname, there are at least the two of them in the North, and there were at least three others (Rhaegar, Jared, and Symond of Frey Pie infamy), not to mention  their men. There are quite a few Freys in the world, it is entirely possible we aren't given a full lineup every time they are present. Lady Stoneheart doesn't seem to be too particular about which Freys she kills, including men-at-arms. Hosteen was one of the Freys ransomed from Tywin, later he is with Roose at Harrenhal, along with Aenys. It's not a terrible stretch to think they may have been involved in the Red Wedding. Roose is in the North as well, currently occupying her home; if I was the one seeking vengeance for the Red Wedding, Roose Bolton would be first on my list. There are plenty of targets for her in the North.

The funny thing is, if Stannis had not fled to Dragonstone, or if he had bothered to respond to any of Ned's letters, there could have been time for him to support Ned, and Ned was supporting Stannis's claim. If I recall correctly, Renly said Robb could be King in the North if he acknowledged Renly as King on the Iron Throne, whereas Stannis said something to the effect of Robb is just as much a traitor in his eyes as Renly, and they will both get what's coming to them. In the eyes of the law, all three of them were traitors. But none of this truly matters, as you yourself said earlier in the thread, Lady Stoneheart is not necessarily the most reasonable creature out there. If she adds Stannis to her list, who is going to speak against it?

I appologise for not putting a spoiler tag. Ser Stupid refers to ser Hosteen.

When you said involved I thought more like Lame Lothar or Black Walder and I got confused if they are in the North too.

Jaime would be my first pick for vengance and then Roose.

Yes, I really resent Stannis for not summoning Ned to Dragonstone or send Davos to KL.

Aye, he was a traitor just as Renly and he offered Renly, SE, seat on SC and position of heir. Robb would get WF and wardenship, maybe even a seat in SC if he asks for it and Stannis would help him to retake North. Renly offered him title amd nothing more, he has to swear fealty to Renly and acknowlege him as overlord, it was pretty much the same as Stannis would give him, if he asked Stannis to have a title like Dorne, he might accept it, but I am not sure about that because of Stannis' will to compromise even a little bit.

I dont see anyone oposing adding his name to the list, but I have a question, if Brynden rescues Jeyne and Edmure and finds LSH they will want to retake Riverlands and they will need a King for that, I dont see new King in the North or at least not at Riverlands, so who will they back to get their lands back? Obviously not Lannister and it leaves us with Aegon and Stannis. Stannis may give them back if they bend he knee and with Aegon it is not sure, he might give them but yet they rebeled and killed his family, they may get Riverrun back, but tile of LP certanly goes to Darrys. What do you think about this?

[Eden-Mackenzie]

11 minutes ago, dariopatke said:

I appologise for not putting a spoiler tag. Ser Stupid refers to ser Hosteen.

When you said involved I thought more like Lame Lothar or Black Walder and I got confused if they are in the North too.

Jaime would be my first pick for vengance and then Roose.

Yes, I really resent Stannis for not summoning Ned to Dragonstone or send Davos to KL.

Aye, he was a traitor just as Renly and he offered Renly, SE, seat on SC and position of heir. Robb would get WF and wardenship, maybe even a seat in SC if he asks for it and Stannis would help him to retake North. Renly offered him title amd nothing more, he has to swear fealty to Renly and acknowlege him as overlord, it was pretty much the same as Stannis would give him, if he asked Stannis to have a title like Dorne, he might accept it, but I am not sure about that because of Stannis' will to compromise even a little bit.

I dont see anyone oposing adding his name to the list, but I have a question, if Brynden rescues Jeyne and Edmure and finds LSH they will want to retake Riverlands and they will need a King for that, I dont see new King in the North or at least not at Riverlands, so who will they back to get their lands back? Obviously not Lannister and it leaves us with Aegon and Stannis. Stannis may give them back if they bend he knee and with Aegon it is not sure, he might give them but yet they rebeled and killed his family, they may get Riverrun back, but tile of LP certanly goes to Darrys. What do you think about this?

I think Brynden is capable of organizing a reasonably effective resistance movement, escalating the previous actions of the BWB, and potentially taking the Riverlands back by force, especially if additional forces (from the Iron Throne side) are needed in the North to combat Stannis. Jaime has also ordered the Freys to turn their Red Wedding hostages over to the crown, which is something I know I tend to forget, but if the BWB can get those guys back as well, that will free up a lot of families to rejoin the resistance. I do think Stannis may be slightly more likely to compromise now than he was when he met with Renly and Cat, plus he is trying to remove the Lannister allies from the North. The one potential issue with joining forces with Stannis is Brienne though - she did vow to avenge Renly. Aegon is too much of a wildcard in my opinion, especially with the fAegon issues, but yeah, I'm not sure Aegon (or Dany) would be likely to support the Tully/Stark cause. Which brings us to Rickon - even as a figurehead King in the North, he could really be a game-changer. Of course he could also be a complete nut case, and his mental health will likely not be improved by any potential meetings with his undead mother...

Not sure about Darry as new LP though, the only remaining Darrys that we are aware of are women married to Freys. There has been a bastard mentioned, but that's about all we know about him.

Jaime did not actually have anything to do with planning the RW, and he really does seem to be trying to keep his vow to Cat - he hasn't taken up arms, and he is trying to return Sansa, via Brienne. The trick is going to be convincing LSH of that though...

[LadyoftheNorth72]

3 hours ago, dariopatke said:

What Frey is in the North? Big Walder had nothing to do with RW and ser Stupid dies in Asha I or something like that.

 

Well, there's these three large pies in the pantry at Winterfell, if you want a late night snack... Then there are the guests who were present when Manderley first served those very popular pies. 

Winterfell has actually been stuffed for a while with Boltons, Freys, and others that LS would just love to see again.