Jump to content

Was there any foreshadowing for Aegon living?


TheWhiteWalker

Recommended Posts

When I first read it I was shocked when Tyrion expossed 'Young Gryff', and i think that was RR Martin's idea; to surprise us that Rhaegar's son is still alive. I don't think he gave any hints at all, tbh. Varys and Illyrio were really the only reoccuring(ish) characters that knew, and they're both extremely secretive

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not nearly enough, IMO. Oh, people will say the fact that the baby's face was unrecognizable when Gregor smashed him counts as foreshadowing, but not for me. I find it too lazy. 

Dany's vision in the House of the Undying of a cloth dragon being cheered by a crowd is a bit more convincing, though, but I think GRRM could've done better. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the baby's face being unrecognizable is more of the author saying "I'm going to leave the possibility open just in case I decide I want to go that route" more than actual foreshadowing.

The vision of the cloth dragon is not a foreshadowing of Aegon living but that Aegon actual did die. At least the way I interpret it. The mummer's cloth dragon means it's a fake so this Aegon is a fake and the real Aegon actually did die.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The face of the dead baby being unrecognizable.

The cloth dragon, which implied there would be another dragon, at all.

The dragon ensign, which was black in colour and was taken by the waves, but came back rusted red.

Two hints that another dragon, specifically a Blackfyre pretending to be a Targaryen, would show up. Aegon's destroyed face left his fate ambiguous, so it's not too farfetched to assume that the fake dragon would take his identity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

I think the baby's face being unrecognizable is more of the author saying "I'm going to leave the possibility open just in case I decide I want to go that route" more than actual foreshadowing.

Exactly, that's how I saw it.

5 minutes ago, RobOsevens said:

Where did this occur?

In Feast, but I don't see it as an Aegon-exclusive foreshadowing, as it could also refer to the loyalty of the Golden Company, how they left Westeros for the Blackfyre cause and now they're coming back as Targaryen supporters. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Exactly, that's how I saw it.

In Feast, but I don't see it as an Aegon-exclusive foreshadowing, as it could also refer to the loyalty of the Golden Company, how they left Westeros for the Blackfyre cause and now they're coming back as Targaryen supporters. 

If it were to foreshadow something concerning the Golden Company, I think they would have used Bittersteel's personal symbol instead of the generic Targ-Blackfyre dragon. Aegon being a Blackfyre is a huge deal as well, considerably bigger than the Golden Company simply coming back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are hints, both Varys/Illyrio's reluctant support of Viserys in combination with them actually wanting a Dothraki invasion as well as the House of the Undying - and there, in fact, both the vision of Aegon, Rhaegar, and Elia with Aegon identified as the promised prince and the one whose song is the song of ice and fire as well as the cloth dragon vision.

In addition there is Varys repeatedly citing Rhaenys' murder as a dreadful crime but always omitting Aegon's fate in that. That certainly can be another hint. Many people had long figured out that either Aegon or a guy claiming to be him would eventually show up by the time of ASoS (and some even back during ACoK).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Sullen said:

If it were to foreshadow something concerning the Golden Company, I think they would have used Bittersteel's personal symbol instead of the generic Targ-Blackfyre dragon. Aegon being a Blackfyre is a huge deal as well, considerably bigger than the Golden Company simply coming back.

A winged horse or a skull going from black to red? That would've been weird. The dragon makes for a more iconic image, IMO. But there's room for interpretation, the way I see it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The whole Aegon/Blackfyre storyline seems like something GRRM cooked it up during the writing of the first dunk and egg novella and the writing of ACOK.  And even then, the first mention of any of it he hinted at Aegon being a paper/mummers dragon, a very clear hint that he was a phony/fake.

I don't necessarily think it is a coincidence that (f)Aegon was first hinted at during the same time that GRRM was writing about the Blackfyre Rebellions for the first time in the first DUNK AND EGG story.  It was all created and cooked up at the same time by him.  This is also the time that many feel like the story truly "took off" from being a 3 book series to a 7 book series.  If you really analyze things, you can almost see GRRM's gears turning on the creation of ASOIAF.

Laying out all the evidence and timelines, I think (f)Aegon is a Blackfyre, along with Illyrio and/or Varys.  (It always struck me weird that we don't know Varys's last name, after all).  It's all setting up a 5th Blackfyre Rebellion, this time it will be Dany Targaryen thwarting off the Blackfyres.  I also think this is one of the main reasons why Barriston Selmy is with Dany....as Selmy was directly involved with the Blackfyres in the past (he actually is the one who killed the last known Blackfyre, ending the 4th rebellion).

I don't know what impact this is all going to have in the grand scheme of things, but I do think that this is where (f)Aegon, Varys, and Illyrio's plot arc is going.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, SevasTra82 said:

 

Laying out all the evidence and timelines, I think (f)Aegon is a Blackfyre, along with Illyrio and/or Varys.  (It always struck me weird that we don't know Varys's last name, after all).  It's all setting up a 5th Blackfyre Rebellion, this time it will be Dany Targaryen thwarting off the Blackfyres.  I also think this is one of the main reasons why Barriston Selmy is with Dany....as Selmy was directly involved with the Blackfyres in the past (he actually is the one who killed the last known Blackfyre, ending the 4th rebellion).

 

I know this isn't a show forum but the fact that they left out Aegon and killed off Barriston for the fun of it supports your train of thought. If they weren't using the Aegon storyline, they didn't need Barriston.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, SevasTra82 said:

The whole Aegon/Blackfyre storyline seems like something GRRM cooked it up during the writing of the first dunk and egg novella and the writing of ACOK.  And even then, the first mention of any of it he hinted at Aegon being a paper/mummers dragon, a very clear hint that he was a phony/fake.

I don't necessarily think it is a coincidence that (f)Aegon was first hinted at during the same time that GRRM was writing about the Blackfyre Rebellions for the first time in the first DUNK AND EGG story.  It was all created and cooked up at the same time by him.  This is also the time that many feel like the story truly "took off" from being a 3 book series to a 7 book series.  If you really analyze things, you can almost see GRRM's gears turning on the creation of ASOIAF.

Laying out all the evidence and timelines, I think (f)Aegon is a Blackfyre, along with Illyrio and/or Varys.  (It always struck me weird that we don't know Varys's last name, after all).  It's all setting up a 5th Blackfyre Rebellion, this time it will be Dany Targaryen thwarting off the Blackfyres.  I also think this is one of the main reasons why Barriston Selmy is with Dany....as Selmy was directly involved with the Blackfyres in the past (he actually is the one who killed the last known Blackfyre, ending the 4th rebellion).

I don't know what impact this is all going to have in the grand scheme of things, but I do think that this is where (f)Aegon, Varys, and Illyrio's plot arc is going.

I think it'll never be revealed that it is actually a Blackfyre affair, makes Dany's story more of a tragedy.

She'll end up slaying someone she believes her kin, that'll be a major part of her moral downfall if you ask me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RobOsevens said:

Thanks Sullen, I can't recall it tho. Going to have a look at it tonight

 

1 hour ago, Sullen said:

Inn of the Crossroads.

The story is told in AFfC to Brienne, IIRC.

I hope this helps:

A Feast for Crows - Brienne VII

"Is the dragon sign still there?" asked Podrick.
 
"No," said Septon Meribald. "When the smith's son was an old man, a bastard son of the fourth Aegon rose up in rebellion against his trueborn brother and took for his sigil a black dragon. These lands belonged to Lord Darry then, and his lordship was fiercely loyal to the king. The sight of the black iron dragon made him wroth, so he cut down the post, hacked the sign into pieces, and cast them into the river. One of the dragon's heads washed up on the Quiet Isle many years later, though by that time it was red with rust. The innkeep never hung another sign, so men forgot the dragon and took to calling the place the River Inn. In those days, the Trident flowed beneath its back door, and half its rooms were built out over the water. Guests could throw a line out their window and catch trout, it's said. There was a ferry landing here as well, so travelers could cross to Lord Harroway's Town and Whitewalls."
 
"We left the Trident south of here, and have been riding north and west . . . not toward the river but away from it."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...