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Who will be the main character of TWoW and ADoS?


Bran the Shipper

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GRRM has said that characters are all starting to converge and meet up again starting with WoW. This is smart because you can include and advance multiple POV characters and storylines in single chapters. So it won't be so much who gets the most POV chapters, just who gets to be the most influential. And I agree with the above: Tyrion, Dany, Bran and Jon are the top 4, and also the most likely to make it into DoS as well (although I see Tyrion dying in DoS).

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Maybe she never goes to Westeros. [emoji14]

Lol. Now that might be an ending that will piss off everyone. I want Dany to sit the IT at the end but I could deal with it if she didn't as long as it's a good story. For her to never even get there would make a lot of ppl mad. The ppl who like her obviously. But even for the ppl who don't bc if she never gets there she the biggest red herring in literary history. She would be completely inconsequential to the story. Bad enough she's been so removed from every other major storyline for 5 books

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Well we have 3 POVs to cover a lot of Mereen ground for the battle there: Tyrion, Barristan and Victarion with each a chapter. Dany's chapter with the Dothraki and making them join her at Mereen would require 3-4 chapters: a chapter of her exhange with them when discovered and being taken to Vaes Dothrak, a chapter at Vaes Dothrak with the Dosh Khaleen and an exodus. By her 4th chapter she could already be back in Mereen. Add a 2nd chapter of Tyrion for the battle aftermath during Dany's absence and then that would be about 8 chapters for Essos before Dany can leave for Westeros.

The North has several POVs to tell the plot for different settings: Melisandre can relate the aftermath of the assassination on Jon and his healing/resurrection, plus arrival of news from Barrowton or Dreadfort, as well as the arrival of fake Arya. Add a Jon chapter of his wolf/coma/resurrection experience (similar to Bran's right before waking up in aGoT). Meanwhile Asha can cover the Battle of Ice, attack or taking WF with deception in 2 chapters, with 1 chapter of Theon taking the Dreadfort with deception with the aid of Mors Umber and his men, and another as a witness to see Roose's troops being crushed by Stannis' army against the walls of the Dreadfort. Mel's aftermath chapter could also include some other news by raven from say Barrowton claiming to be under attack by Ironborn (though it's actually a false flag raid by Bear Islanders with the boats they took from Asha). 1 Davos chapter may be enough to relate him finding Rickon, and another one back either in White Harbor or Dreadfort or WF to rejoin Stannis with Rickon as the Stark. And then at least a second Jon chapter regarding the threat of the Others. So, a lot can be covered with 8-9 chapters for the North.

The Riverlands: most likely the prologue that includes Jeyne Westerling as a character (and thus Edmure too), at least a chapter from either Jaime's or Brienne's POV regarding his confrontation with LS, an Arya chapter while she wargs Nym in her sleep can likely show us the pack dealing with Addam Marbrand. A Brienne chapter could tell us what she's been up to before she lured Jaime away, including having a conversation with Gendry. There would be a RW 2.0. chapter at Riverrun (Brienne or Jaime), and one rescuing the hostages being escorted by Freys from the Twins to the Ruby Ford along KR. So, 5 chapters and a prologue could suffice for the RL.

The Vale: Alayne/Sansa chapters. I suspect 3 chapters for the tourney and festivities with the third heralding disaster (avalanche), a 4th chapter as the survivors leave to defend the Bloody Gate being attacked by mountain clans, and a 5th with Sansa slaying a savage giant LF and being kidnapped or willingly flee with the Mad Mouse. So, 5 chapters for the Vale.

Ironborn: perhaps a Damphair chapter for news on Euron, but certainly one or two Asha or Theon chapters heading for the islands and calling a new kingsmoot. Sam with a chapter for the attack on Oldtown. That's 4 chapters.

Dorne & Aegon: Areo Hotah has 1 chapter regarding Darkstar, maybe a 2nd at Starfall. Arianne has at least 2 chapters we know of regarding Aegon's progress. She'll probably catch up to him by the 3rd. Add one or two JonCon chapters and so 6-7 chapters for Dorne and Aegon.

KL: Cersei POVs for her own trial, that of Margaery's, and possible councel meeting or news from battle threat by Aegon, with a 4th chapter her trying to burn KL and flee to CR with whichever child still living.Again 4-5 chapters.

Braavos: I suspect Arya may have no more than 3 chapters, maybe 4.

Greenseers and flashbacks: Bran has at least one chapter with flashback to ToJ and attempting to reach Jon's "ghost" perhaps. He may even witness the Battle of Ice through the weirwood on the island of the lake. There's also a chance here to explore the Isle of Faces via the weirnet. Probably no more than 3 chapters.

That would comprise 46-49 chapters, with the POVs having the most chapters (4-5) being Alayne/Sansa, Cersei and Dany. North and Essos would require the most chapters, but may have equal amount of attention divided over several characters.

 

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12 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

<snip>

That would comprise 46-49 chapters, with the POVs having the most chapters (4-5) being Alayne/Sansa, Cersei and Dany. North and Essos would require the most chapters, but may have equal amount of attention divided over several characters.

 

50 chapters for Winds ?!?  There is no way that will work  That would leave way too much story remaining for just one more book.  Also, that's way shorter than any other book than Feast, which had 46 chapters.  Every other book has had at least 70, with Storm having 82, which is what I would guess will be the length (more or less) of Winds.

My approximate proposal of POV chapters:

Meereen & voyage west (20):  Daenerys,10; Tyrion, 6; Victarion, 2; Barristan, 2

North (25):  Mel, 2; Jon, 7; Bran, 5; Davos, 5 (including Hardhome and Land of Always Winter); Asha /Theon, 6 total

Arya  8  (4 in Braavos, 4 in Westeros)

Sansa  7

Cersei  6

Sam, 4; Arianne, 4; Jaime /Brienne, 5 total; Damphair, 2; Areo, JonCon, 0

Total: 81 (plus prologue and epilogue, if any)

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1 minute ago, Nevets said:

50 chapters for Winds ?!?  There is no way that will work  That would leave way too much story remaining for just one more book.  Also, that's way shorter than any other book than Feast, which had 46 chapters.  Every other book has had at least 70, with Storm having 82, which is what I would guess will be the length (more or less) of Winds.

My approximate proposal of POV chapters:

Meereen & voyage west (20):  Daenerys,10; Tyrion, 6; Victarion, 2; Barristan, 2

North (25):  Mel, 2; Jon, 7; Bran, 5; Davos, 5 (including Hardhome and Land of Always Winter); Asha /Theon, 6 total

Arya  8  (4 in Braavos, 4 in Westeros)

Sansa  7

Cersei  6

Sam, 4; Arianne, 4; Jaime /Brienne, 5 total; Damphair, 2; Areo, JonCon, 0

Total: 81 (plus prologue and epilogue, if any)

You are correct that 50 chapters for Winds would be too low. What it shows though is that there is room for 30 chapters more for extra plot or extra character development. As you point: there is room for the voyage to Westeros for Dany and Tyrion as well as for Arya, and even chapters for Arya in Westeros. The Vale arc can be done more expansively, as can be that of King's Landing, Oldtown and Aegon. So, while I understand why you took my post as saying WoW only having 49 chapters, I was actually pointing out the bare minimum needed for several plots introduced in the last two as well as foreshadowed and logically needing to take place in tWoW.

I do disagree with the number you give Areo Hotah. He's the sole character with a POV anywhere near the Daynes, going to High Hermitage and possibly Starfall. Jon's death/coma is the most appropriate time for the ToJ reveal, either through Bran or Jon himself. Once that reveal has been introduced, George will be ready to go to that family he has been very secretive about - the Daynes, while Darkstar has been set up most likely to become the Sword of the Evening and steal or claim Dawn (dropping the 5 year gap made it difficult for Edric Dayne to be the Sword of the Morning, but Dawn still has to be brought into the story). Areo Hotah is the sole POV who can reveal those events to us, and it's probably why he even chose to make him a POV.

For similar reasons he chose to have JonCon's POV. Arianne will require a few chapters before catching up with them. And we can't have Aegon taking the Stormlands by storm only by hearsay. It's the function of JonCon's POV. 

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14 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

You are correct that 50 chapters for Winds would be too low. What it shows though is that there is room for 30 chapters more for extra plot or extra character development. As you point: there is room for the voyage to Westeros for Dany and Tyrion as well as for Arya, and even chapters for Arya in Westeros. The Vale arc can be done more expansively, as can be that of King's Landing, Oldtown and Aegon. So, while I understand why you took my post as saying WoW only having 49 chapters, I was actually pointing out the bare minimum needed for several plots introduced in the last two as well as foreshadowed and logically needing to take place in tWoW.

I do disagree with the number you give Areo Hotah. He's the sole character with a POV anywhere near the Daynes, going to High Hermitage and possibly Starfall. Jon's death/coma is the most appropriate time for the ToJ reveal, either through Bran or Jon himself. Once that reveal has been introduced, George will be ready to go to that family he has been very secretive about - the Daynes, while Darkstar has been set up most likely to become the Sword of the Evening and steal or claim Dawn (dropping the 5 year gap made it difficult for Edric Dayne to be the Sword of the Morning, but Dawn still has to be brought into the story). Areo Hotah is the sole POV who can reveal those events to us, and it's probably why he even chose to make him a POV.

For similar reasons he chose to have JonCon's POV. Arianne will require a few chapters before catching up with them. And we can't have Aegon taking the Stormlands by storm only by hearsay. It's the function of JonCon's POV. 

Sorry for the confusion.  I thought you meant 49 for the whole book.

As far as Areo Hotah is concerned, I always thought he was there to introduce the Dorne plot.  I am uncertain about the importance of Darkstar.  I agree that the Daynes and Dawn are important, but think there are other ways to give us info on Jon's parentage.  I still think it will most likely come from either Howland Reed, or possibly Benjen, who I believe is still alive and in the far North.  I would suggest continuing the discussion here,  http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/135353-merging-story-lines/&page=4 , where there is already a discussion of possible events in TWOW.

 

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11 minutes ago, Nevets said:

Sorry for the confusion.  I thought you meant 49 for the whole book.

As far as Areo Hotah is concerned, I always thought he was there to introduce the Dorne plot.  I am uncertain about the importance of Darkstar.  I agree that the Daynes and Dawn are important, but think there are other ways to give us info on Jon's parentage.  I still think it will most likely come from either Howland Reed, or possibly Benjen, who I believe is still alive and in the far North.  I would suggest continuing the discussion here,  http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/135353-merging-story-lines/&page=4 , where there is already a discussion of possible events in TWOW.

 

Of course Areo Hotah is not going to give us anything about Jon's parentage. I proposed Jon himself or Bran could do that. Mayhaps it's Benjen. HR would be difficult since we don't have a POV in the Neck. Whichever you prefer, I agree it's not Areo Hotah. I said Areo Hotah is the sole point of view who can take us to the Dayne sites (High Hermitage and Starfall) and be a witness to seeing Dawn come back into use. The Daynes have a connection to the ToJ (and Jon), but their biggest mystery is that of their own bloodline - the sword Dawn, what legends they have regarding the Long Night, the comet they made Dawn out of, the family words. And I do not expect he'll have Bran, Jon, Benjen or HR be in the know of that too much. They are tied to Stark background, not Dayne background. George spreads reveals and info around across several POV, for us to piece it together. So, Jon's parentage and ToJ happenings through a northern Stark related or tied POV (and how Ned managed to beat Arthur Dayne with HR's help), and then afterwards at least one Areo chapter exactly in the ToJ region in a confrontation with a Dayne who aims to get his hands on Dawn (while he's too dark and undeserving to be a Sword of the Morning, which would make him a Sword of the Evening)

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On 2/13/2016 at 8:02 PM, Bran the Shipper said:

By main character I just mean who will have the most chapters.  Previous main characters would be:

Ned for A Game of Thrones

Tyrion for A Clash of Kings

Arya for A Storm of Swords

Cersei for A Feast for Crows

and Jon for A Dance with Dragons

My guess is that Dany is the main character of Winds of Winter and Bran is the main character of A Dream of Spring.  Dany I see being the main character of Winds of Winter because she has so much ground to cover, much like Arya in A Storm of Swords.  I hope Bran is the main character of A Dream of Spring because I would like him to be the true hero of the series, plus Dream of Spring seems like something that would be tied to Bran considering his plotline's emphasis on dreams and ending winter.  Though by that logic Dany should have been the lead for A Dance with Dragons and Jon should be the lead for Winds of Winter.

No, your list is not the same as mine. 

My List

A Game of Thrones - Ned Stark

A Clash of Kings - Tyrion

A Storm of Swords - Daenerys

A Feast for Crows - Cersei

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys

The Winds of Winter will likely present us with more of the secondary characters like Samwell, Jaime, Sansa, Barristan, Jorah, and Stannis.  Who takes the center stage?  I suspect Dany because the Dothraki, according to The Man himself, are coming back to the story in a big way.

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The main characters have been the same since book #1.  I would not use page count to determine the main character.  These are the main characters, in this order:  Dany, Tyrion, and Jon.  The same since AGOT.  Ned was never the main character.  He's more like a long prologue.  Robb is a footnote.

 

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54 minutes ago, Steelshanks Walton said:

The main characters have been the same since book #1.  I would not use page count to determine the main character.  These are the main characters, in this order:  Dany, Tyrion, and Jon.  The same since AGOT.  Ned was never the main character.  He's more like a long prologue.  Robb is a footnote.

This.

In addition I don't think that page count or chapter count correlates in any way with the amount of "stuff" that gets done (plot progress).  Compare Dany in storm to Dany in DwD.  Twice the chapters, 1/4 the material covered.

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The character who gets the most chapters is not necessarily the center of the story.In Storm of Swords, Arya has the most chapters but Tyrion is the most influential character.Same for Dance.Jon has the most chapters but everything goes around Daenerys and Meereen.

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On 14/02/2016 at 2:25 AM, sweetsunray said:

The Vale: Alayne/Sansa chapters. I suspect 3 chapters for the tourney and festivities with the third heralding disaster (avalanche), a 4th chapter as the survivors leave to defend the Bloody Gate being attacked by mountain clans, and a 5th with Sansa slaying a savage giant LF and being kidnapped or willingly flee with the Mad Mouse. So, 5 chapters for the Vale.

A savage giant Littlefinger? Is this a joke to make sure people are actually reading?

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Given the time it's taking to deliver TWOW I wouldn't be at all surprised for it to have exceeded ASOS.   However, I'm not so sure something of that enormity can be published in a single volume (in the USA).   Certainly events in the east will be featured prominently as Dany prepares to head to Westeros.   Add to that Dany's divergence from the bulk of characters (surely someone (s) will be sent to find her) in Mereen and you've potentially got enough for a novel by itself.  That's without everything happening in Westeros and if told at the pace of the past 2 novels it's almost impossible to tell the story in a single volume.  Things need to get on track and characters need to join forces.  I expect characters in the east to have the most chapters in TWOW, but that isn't by any means limited to Dany. 

ADOS should be the culmination of the entire tale.   That said, look for Jon and Bran to command the story. 

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12 hours ago, Pancakes1800 said:

I guess you haven't read that theory.

 

4 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Theory is in my sig. No, not a joke.

Thanks, I hadn't read the theory, and I hadn't realized the words had been picked from a dream/prophecy.

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