VarysTheSpider Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: Yeah but it wasn't an act of god then either. Although at least Skylar had been trying to do a genuinely good thing initially...to help Ted save his business...but then she saw he was going to be irresponsible. His fall and subsequent disability is still her fault for sending goons after him. And Chuck's fall is Jimmy's fault. I think you can blame it on anyone, really - like it was Jimmy's fault for the reasons you list, or it was Chuck's fault for being far too insistent with the sales guy, or it was the two women's fault for interrupting when it was Chuck's turn to talk to the guy, or it was the sales guy's fault for taking the bribe, or it was Kim's fault for tipping Jimmy off, or it was Howard's fault for being too harsh on Kim after the commercial went out which triggered the whole MV storyline to begin with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, VarysTheSpider said: I think you can blame it on anyone, really - like it was Jimmy's fault for the reasons you list, or it was Chuck's fault for being far too insistent with the sales guy, or it was the two women's fault for interrupting when it was Chuck's turn to talk to the guy, or it was the sales guy's fault for taking the bribe, or it was Kim's fault for tipping Jimmy off, or it was Howard's fault for being too harsh on Kim after the commercial went out which triggered the whole MV storyline to begin with... The catalyst is Jimmy. He started the entire ball rolling when he forged the documents. And for that matter, his unapproved commercial is what caused Kim to be punished, unfairly though it was, by Howard. So, as far back as you care to go, the cause is still Slippin Jimmy. Chuck would never have been in the copy store if Jimmy hadn't committed fraud by stealing documents from Chuck's house and then forging them. Kim and the clerk also bear some responsibility, the clerk more directly since he knows for a fact he's lying, and Kim correctly surmises that Chuck was right and tells Jimmy in so many words to go cover his tracks. Neither Howard nor Chuck are in the wrong here, just because they are not as likable as Jimmy or Kim doesn't absolve the other two of responsibility for their actions and the consequences. Mike is also much much more inadvertently responsible for the death of the good samaritan, because "half measures"...but at least we see he had a desire NOT to harm anyone more than is necessary, and tries like hell to arrange things in such a way. Jimmy, he just bluffs his way through whatever comes into his head at any given time. Jimmy may be a likable guy, but really, he's a POS who destroys everyone he touches. Next up: Kim Wexler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steinman Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 I love this show. My favourite parts are everything with Mike. He knows himself and his abilities, and his calm assurance just makes me relax and enjoy every minute he's on screen. Jimmy is such a loose cannon that I rarely know what's going to happen when he's around. He can bring the most joy - specifically with his small cons - but also moments when I cringe at his recklessness, and it's hard to tell which of the former moments transform into one of the latter moments. He's a great tv character but morally I'm definitely on Chuck's side. I am eagerly awaiting his change from Jimmy to Saul so that he too can be who he's always been and be confident in himself. I just hope he doesn't destroy too many lives on the way there. Too bad that Kim didn't take the out that she had this episode. She could have backed Jimmy when Chuck confronted them to keep Jimmy out of jail, but then separated herself from Jimmy afterwards and never involve him in any of her business again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 ooooh fuccckkkk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 I genuinely leapt out of my chair when Chuck hit the counter...felt it go right through me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 The camera work on this show is so fantastic. When you see everything from Chuck's vantage point, amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 19 hours ago, sifth said: I want to feel bad for Chuck, but the guy just couldn't let it go. He was more concerned with proving his brother is an asshole, than he was admitting he made a mistake. I'm very excited for the next episode now. Huh? Why SHOULD he let it go? Jimmy f'ed him over, and commited a slew of crimes in the process. What possible justification can anyone have for expecting Chuck to let that go? This is all on Jimmy. 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 11 minutes ago, Swordfish said: Huh? Why SHOULD he let it go? Jimmy f'ed him over, and commited a slew of crimes in the process. What possible justification can anyone have for expecting Chuck to let that go? This is all on Jimmy. 100%. He had no proof though. We know Chuck was right, but from Chuck's POV he was just guessing, since he was basing his accusation without any evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 24 minutes ago, sifth said: He had no proof though. We know Chuck was right, but from Chuck's POV he was just guessing, since he was basing his accusation without any evidence. He had enough proof to be dead right. And lets not forget that the disease he complains about doesn't really exist. So when jimmy was doing all that work, there was nothing actually wrong with Chuck. I just doesn't see how you can blame the guy for going after Jimmy instead of admitting he made a mistake, when in fact, he didn't make a mistake. i love the Jimmy character, but there are a lot of people in this thread who seem to be letting their love for Saul turn them into apologists for Jimmy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dooog Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Best episode of the season and some brilliant writing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 31 minutes ago, sifth said: He had no proof though. We know Chuck was right, but from Chuck's POV he was just guessing, since he was basing his accusation without any evidence. He was right, though. And Ernesto found the proof and got the copy guy to admit Jimmy was there. So, I have to agree, why should Chuck "admit" he made a mistake, when he didn't make a mistake, when his brother forged the documents? Chuck may be an asshole but he is not in the wrong here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Jimmy is a crook, sure.... but Chuck is a colossal jizzbucket.... besides being psychotic with his imaginary electricity allergy .... he's been undermining Jimmy for years.... *maybe* Jimmy might have turned out differently if Chuck hadn't been such a cowardly shit and had Howard stonewall him because he was too much of a shitdick to douche Jimmy to his face.... he is his fucking BROTHER..... Jimmy always had Chucks back before this... If my brother showed up at my house with a severed head I'd get him a plastic bag, grab my shovel and ask where the body was. I know enough likable felons to wants Jimmy to stay out of jail... and I know enough rat bastards to hope that Chuck winds up slurring and drooling on himself for the rest of his long miserable life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeburners Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I must say, a lot of people are saying that "Chuck is guessing", however, from his point of view, it seems much more likely that Jimmy doctored the files than that Chuck "made a mistake". Remember, Jimmy snuck into Chuck's house after the fact to return the original files, so they all say "1261" as they should. So in order for Chuck to have "made a mistake", he has to have made that mistake every single time he came across the "1261" which, as was implied by the show, was many, many times. In fact, this was the obvious hole in Kim's explanation (and she knew she was wrong anyway). She said "it's the simpler explanation.. you were writing by lampshade at size 10 font" (to paraphrase). This explains one slip-up but it doesn't explain him slipping up every single time he came across that address. That is an extremely specific mistake to make over and over. Either Chuck had to have been extremely, strangely dislexic for that one very specific number (but not for any other number or word) or something really fishy happened. Just put yourself in his shoes and understand that even if you had the most angelic brother, if you saw those files you'd know something was fucked up. Then, knowing the circumstances of Jimmy's presence and just how his character is, I think Chuck's explanation is very much the most obvious one from his PoV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, Martini Sigil said: Jimmy is a crook, sure.... but Chuck is a colossal jizzbucket.... besides being psychotic with his imaginary electricity allergy .... he's been undermining Jimmy for years.... *maybe* Jimmy might have turned out differently if Chuck hadn't been such a cowardly shit and had Howard stonewall him because he was too much of a shitdick to douche Jimmy to his face.... he is his fucking BROTHER..... Jimmy always had Chucks back before this... If my brother showed up at my house with a severed head I'd get him a plastic bag, grab my shovel and ask where the body was. I know enough likable felons to wants Jimmy to stay out of jail... and I know enough rat bastards to hope that Chuck winds up slurring and drooling on himself for the rest of his long miserable life. What are you talking about? Jimmy has been fucking over Chuck and everyone else in his life since he was a child. Of COURSE Chuck doesn't give him the benefit of the doubt. Why would he? I don't really like Chuck, but it's not because he's 'mean' to Jimmy. Jimmy brings that shit on himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 8 minutes ago, Martini Sigil said: Jimmy is a crook, sure.... but Chuck is a colossal jizzbucket.... besides being psychotic with his imaginary electricity allergy .... he's been undermining Jimmy for years.... *maybe* Jimmy might have turned out differently if Chuck hadn't been such a cowardly shit and had Howard stonewall him because he was too much of a shitdick to douche Jimmy to his face.... he is his fucking BROTHER..... Jimmy always had Chucks back before this... If my brother showed up at my house with a severed head I'd get him a plastic bag, grab my shovel and ask where the body was. I know enough likable felons to wants Jimmy to stay out of jail... and I know enough rat bastards to hope that Chuck winds up slurring and drooling on himself for the rest of his long miserable life. Ehm, we saw Jimmy stealing from the register in his own father's store when he was a child. And we know he was scamming as "slippin jimmy' back in IL, and we know Chuck got him out of the charges when he shit in a guys sun roof. Jimmy has always been a fuck up and a scammer, from well before he got a law degree. It seems unlikely, especially since Jimmy didn't know for ages that Chuck did not really support him, that any of that would have changed Jimmy or his essential nature. Wow, I don't even know what to say that you wish evil on Chuck who has never done anything but envy his brother's easy way with people when all it has done is allow him to scam them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I don't like Chuck but even I felt great sympathy for him when he felt truly humiliated at work, and then probably felt so exasperated/frustrated that Kim didn't believe him, and THEN had a freakout in the store causing him to very painfully wallop his head against the surface. I had an ''ooohhhhh shit'' moment when Jimmy first doctored the files last episode and I knew it wouldn't end up pretty, but I didn't call THIS. *shudder* And Jimmy waiting in the darkness outside just watching...scary stuff!!!! Very uncomfortable. This show is written brilliantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 23 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: Ehm, we saw Jimmy stealing from the register in his own father's store when he was a child. And we know he was scamming as "slippin jimmy' back in IL, and we know Chuck got him out of the charges when he shit in a guys sun roof. Jimmy has always been a fuck up and a scammer, from well before he got a law degree. It seems unlikely, especially since Jimmy didn't know for ages that Chuck did not really support him, that any of that would have changed Jimmy or his essential nature. Wow, I don't even know what to say that you wish evil on Chuck who has never done anything but envy his brother's easy way with people when all it has done is allow him to scam them. Jimmy was trying to go on the straight & narrow when he was working in the mailroom at HHM....then he passed the bar... if Chuck hadn't been a self-important spunk dumpster Jimmy might have taken a different path.... the thing is, we'll never know.... and its all because Chuck was jealous of Jimmy.... so screw Chuck in both ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 1 minute ago, Martini Sigil said: Jimmy was trying to go on the straight & narrow when he was working in the mailroom at HHM....then he passed the bar... if Chuck hadn't been a self-important spunk dumpster Jimmy might have taken a different path.... the thing is, we'll never know.... and its all because Chuck was jealous of Jimmy.... so screw Chuck in both ears. Yeah, but we do know. We know because Jimmy got the lawyer's version of hitting the lottery when he got the Davis & Main job. It can't be Chuck's fault that Jimmy did exactly what Chuck suspected him of: solicitation, and then he made and ran a TV commercial w/out authorization. That's all Jimmy. Jimmy does not follow the rules. You could hand him 1000 Davis & Main jobs and he would chaff at the rules and fuck up eventually. That's why he ends up as Saul Goodman, a sleazy criminal lawyer in a strip mall. Not Chuck's fault. Jimmy's fault. He had the chance to leave all the Chuck stuff behind, when he got the job, and he had a second chance to leave it behind when Kim agreed to partner with him...But HE JIMMY could not leave well enough alone, and had to go and commit a couple more crimes on Kim's behalf. He ruins everything he touches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Swordfish said: He had enough proof to be dead right. And lets not forget that the disease he complains about doesn't really exist. So when jimmy was doing all that work, there was nothing actually wrong with Chuck. I just doesn't see how you can blame the guy for going after Jimmy instead of admitting he made a mistake, when in fact, he didn't make a mistake. i love the Jimmy character, but there are a lot of people in this thread who seem to be letting their love for Saul turn them into apologists for Jimmy. What can I say, I don't like a guy who's only proof is, "it probably was Jimmy". Let's just agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I'm not saying Jimmy's not a major fuck-up.... I'm just saying that Chuck is a petty, jealous, cowardly asshole who is his own way is unscrupulous .... and maybe its the way I was raised, but brothers don't douche one another the way that Chuck did to Jimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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