Northern Burial Customs

[Guest]

In AGOT Ned makes a massive deal about returning Lady to the North since she's a northerner, same thing occurs with Ned's bones even though they get lost. However Lady Dustin points out that Ned never returned her husband's bones to the North despite him dying for Ned at TOJ, instead Ned buries all of his companions in the South. Then leaves them there for what 15 years? He could have easily sent someone to retrieve  them as Lord of Winterfell or let the families retrieve the bodies. Yet he returns Dawn to the Daynes? Who in turn nickname the heir after him? A boy who seems to have a very high opinion of the guy who murdered his uncle. Just sayin'.  

[Lord Ravenstark]

In AGOT Ned makes a massive deal about returning Lady to the North since she's a northerner, same thing occurs with Ned's bones even though they get lost. However Lady Dustin points out that Ned never returned her husband's bones to the North despite him dying for Ned at TOJ, instead Ned buries all of his companions in the South. Then leaves them there for what 15 years? He could have easily sent someone to retrieve  them as Lord of Winterfell or let the families retrieve the bodies. Yet he returns Dawn to the Daynes? Who in turn nickname the heir after him? A boy who seems to have a very high opinion of the guy who murdered his uncle. Just sayin'.  

The people on the tower are supposed to be his friends. Maybe Ned is a dick, maybe Lady Dustin is lying, maybe a mere plot device.

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

He left the bones there so their secrets would not be shared through the weirwood network.

[Ice Turtle]

Ned definitely would not send random someone to the place where his deepest secret began. 

The only unfairness I see is that he originally took Lyanna's bones. But it could be that it was either one of her last wishes or a way to stop Robert from making a trip to her grave in Dorne.

As for Dawn, Ned could:

1, Return it as he did

2, Keep it or sell it, but that would go against his honor

3, Let it lie where it fallen from Arthur's hand, but that seems almost against human nature, when it comes to something that has value 

4, Burry it with Arthur, but that does not seem as Westerosi custom, especially not with the best weapon in Westeros

5, Throw it in the sea, but I see no reason why he would do it

6, Hide it, but why would he do that?

[BalerionTheCat]

There are a lot of unanswered questions about TOJ. My best guess is that the deads are a sacrifice for the birth of Jon. And so, their bones had to remain there.

My explanation too, why these good men, all protecting Lyanna and her baby, came to fight each other.

[Maxxine]

I've always just taken a more practical stance regarding this question. At the end of TOJ there were only two people left and 9 bodies plus a baby. How were 2 people supposed to carry back 9 bodies and a baby? Ned had to make a choice and he chose his sister over his friends. I probably would've made the same decision. At least he took the time to bury them including the KG. Maybe you could argue he should've went back and gotten them, but I don't think Ned kept it a secret as to where the bodies are. If Lady Dustin or any other person wanted the bones they could've went and got them themselves. Yeah it's possible that there's some deeper reason behind Ned leaving the body (sacrifice or anything else), but I tend find in life the simple answer is right a good amount of the time. If you hear hoof beats in the park, it's probably a horse, not a zebra.  

[Damsel in Distress]

7 hours ago, Lord Ravenstark said:

The people on the tower are supposed to be his friends. Maybe Ned is a dick, maybe Lady Dustin is lying, maybe a mere plot device.

Ned was a dick.  And he's the most reasonable of the Starks.  Ned disrespected the men who died for him.  He could not be bothered to bring their remains back, and yet, he brought back the remains of his sister.

[purple-eyes]

1 minute ago, Maxxine said:

I've always just taken a more practical stance regarding this question. At the end of TOJ there were only two people left and 9 bodies plus a baby. How were 2 people supposed to carry back 9 bodies and a baby? Ned had to make a choice and he chose his sister over his friends. I probably would've made the same decision. At least he took the time to bury them including the KG. Maybe you could argue he should've went back and gotten them, but I don't think Ned kept it a secret as to where the bodies are. If Lady Dustin or any other person wanted the bones they could've went and got them themselves. Yeah it's possible that there's some deeper reason behind Ned leaving the body (sacrifice or anything else), but I tend find in life the simple answer is right a good amount of the time. If you hear hoof beats in the park, it's probably a horse, not a zebra.  

I think this is just something GRRM ignored when he wrote this portion. 

Think about arthur, starfall is so close and arthur is so famous, why did not ned bring his bones back to starfall with dawn? He even sent bones of a wolf back to winterfell, so arthur and his friends were not even as important as a pet? He can process lyanna's dead body then why not Arthur's too? Even he can not, how about telling them where is TOJ and let house dayne to take arthur back? 

It is very important to return the bones, and it did not take ned much time and effort to send arthur back to starfall with dawn. 

And I think ned did not tell lady Dustin and other people where TOJ was, otherwise they would go to pick them up. Then they may figure out something about jon snow by looking at the ruins of TOJ. This is very unfair to their families, but ned may feel lyanna's promise is toppest concern. 

 

[Maxxine]

6 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

I think this is just something GRRM ignored when he wrote this portion. 

Think about arthur, starfall is so close and arthur is so famous, why did not ned bring his bones back to starfall with dawn? He even sent bones of a wolf back to winterfell, so arthur and his friends were not even as important as a pet? He can process lyanna's dead body then why not Arthur's too? Even he can not, how about telling them where is TOJ and let house dayne to take arthur back? 

It is very important to return the bones, and it did not take ned much time and effort to send arthur back to starfall with dawn. 

And I think ned did not tell lady Dustin and other people where TOJ was, otherwise they would go to pick them up. Then they may figure out something about jon snow by looking at the ruins of TOJ. This is very unfair to their families, but ned may feel lyanna's promise is toppest concern. 

 

The situation with Lady and the situation at TOJ are not an apples to apples comparison. With Lady there were hundreds of men with him. He could spare some to take her bones back. At the end of TOJ there were only two people. Two people cannot take carry across an entire continent 9 bodies and a baby even with horses. This is a just a simple question to me. Like I said it's possible that there's more of a mystery there. Maybe these people were needed for the sacrifice. Maybe all these people are still alive and are going to serve some purpose. Possible. But there is also a sensible, practical explanation. Two people can't carry 9 bodies plus a baby.

 And yeah Ned chose his sister over his friends. Maybe that was selfish, but I don't blame him for it. And TOJ is not that close to Starfall. TOJ is in the middle of the continent near the border while Starfall is on the western coast. It's much easier to put a sword on your back or on your hip than carry an extra body. 

And it not clear in the text, but I don't think the location of TOJ is a secret nor do I think that Lyanna died there and there was a battle there is a secret. I think the only secret is that there is baby. Yeah he could hide the baby, but he would've had to explain what happened to 5 of the 7 people who went with him and the 3 KG.

[purple-eyes]

2 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

The situation with Lady and the situation at TOJ are not an apples to apples comparison. With Lady there were hundreds of men with him. He could spare some to take her bones back. At the end of TOJ there were only two people. Two people cannot take carry across an entire continent 9 bodies and a baby even with horses. This is a just a simple question to me. Like I said it's possible that there's more of a mystery there. Maybe these people were needed for the sacrifice. Maybe all these people are still alive and are going to serve some purpose. Possible. But there is also a sensible, practical explanation. Two people can't carry 9 bodies plus a baby.

 And yeah Ned chose his sister over his friends. Maybe that was selfish, but I don't blame him for it. And TOJ is not that close to Starfall. TOJ is in the middle of the continent near the border while Starfall is on the western coast. It's much easier to put a sword on your back or on your hip than carry an extra body. 

And it not clear in the text, but I don't think the location of TOJ is a secret nor do I think that Lyanna died there and there was a battle there is a secret. I think the only secret is that there is baby. Yeah he could hide the baby, but he would've had to explain what happened to 5 of the 7 people who went with him and the 3 KG.

Nobody asked him to carry nine dead bodies. (And by the way, only five of them are from north)

And He carried lyanna's bones back, not her whole body. 

You think he can carry a rotted dead body of lyanna back to winterfell (several months trip)? 

He found somebody like silent sisters or some way to process lyanna so he only had to carry some bones of her for travel. 

And he can definitely do that for arthur too. 

And he surely had that ability of carry some pieces of bones of arthur to starfall. 

 

 

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

There is the theory that the first men of the Barrowlands still have knowledge of how they communed with the dead before the pact with the CotF, and lady Dustin wanted the bones for that reason, and this is why they were denied them.  She captured Ned's bones and is now secretly working with Ned against the Boltons.  Roose knows of her power but she is lying to him... She told him Ned saw Arya die but knows that she lived, which is why Roose is confident the fArya plan will work. 

[Maxxine]

6 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

Nobody asked him to carry nine dead bodies. (And by the way, only five of them are from north)

And He carried lyanna's bones back, not her whole body. 

You think he can carry a rotted dead body of lyanna back to winterfell (several months trip)? 

He found somebody like silent sisters or some way to process lyanna so he only had to carry some bones of her for travel. 

And he can definitely do that for arthur too. 

And he surely had that ability of carry some pieces of bones of arthur to starfall. 

 

 

There were 9 bodies including the 5 who came with him, the 3 KG, and Lyanna plus the newborn. He had to carry her body at some point because there were probably no Silent Sisters just standing around TOJ with their boiling water and beetles just waiting on people to die. So even if he didn't carry the complete body the whole way, he carried her somewhere to at least get her to the Silent Sisters. And even if he "should have" only been concerned with the Northerners that's still 6 bodies. Two people can't carry 6 bodies either.  He was not going to be able to get all of these bodies to the Silent Sisters or to their families with just him and Reed. He chose his sister over Dayne, the other KG, and his friends, but did the next best thing he was actually capable of doing, which was burying the bodies as opposed to just leaving them for the crows and returning the sword. 

 

 

[purple-eyes]

9 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

There were 9 bodies including the 5 who came with him, the 3 KG, and Lyanna plus the newborn. He had to carry her body at some point because there were probably no Silent Sisters just standing around TOJ with their boiling water and beetles just waiting on people to die. So even if he didn't carry the complete body the whole way, he carried her somewhere to at least get her to the Silent Sisters. And even if he "should have" only been concerned with the Northerners that's still 6 bodies. Two people can't carry 6 bodies either.  He was not going to be able to get all of these bodies to the Silent Sisters or to their families with just him and Reed. He chose his sister over Dayne, the other KG, and his friends, but did the next best thing he was actually capable of doing, which was burying the bodies as opposed to just leaving them for the crows and returning the sword. 

 

 

I am not arguing about all people, but it sounds doable to carry arthur to silent sisters too and take his bones to starfall since he would go there anyway and it is a proper thing to do considering about ashara. 

He had two people, at least seven horses to tear down a tower and he did not have this ability to take Arthur's body with them?

And wylla or wet nurse was carrying jon, ned and howland did not need to do that. 

 

[Tijgy]

12 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

There were 9 bodies including the 5 who came with him, the 3 KG, and Lyanna plus the newborn. He had to carry her body at some point because there were probably no Silent Sisters just standing around TOJ with their boiling water and beetles just waiting on people to die. So even if he didn't carry the complete body the whole way, he carried her somewhere to at least get her to the Silent Sisters. And even if he "should have" only been concerned with the Northerners that's still 6 bodies. Two people can't carry 6 bodies either.  He was not going to be able to get all of these bodies to the Silent Sisters or to their families with just him and Reed. He chose his sister over Dayne, the other KG, and his friends, but did the next best thing he was actually capable of doing, which was burying the bodies as opposed to just leaving them for the crows and returning the sword. 

There was still Lord Dustin's horse - could he not have carried his boss bones? 

Now more serious. 

Ned brought Lyanna's bones back to the crypts, he brought Dawn back to the Daynes, he brought Howland back to the Reeds , he brought Lord Dustin's stallion, the pride of Barbrey's father's herds, back to Lady Dustin, ... for the rest we don't know if he brought something back to their families? 

[Maxxine]

4 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

I am not arguing about all people, but it sounds doable to carry arthur to silent sisters too and take his bones to starfall since he would go there anyway and it is a proper thing to do considering about ashara. 

He had two people, at least seven horses to tear down a tower and he did not have this ability to take Arthur's body with them?

And wylla or wet nurse was carrying jon, ned and howland did not need to do that. 

 

I guess it was possible, more possible than taking all the bodies, but it still wouldn't have been easy. Plus there could have been two other considerations. Taking your sister back and leaving everyone else, people can understand that. She was family. Taking your sister back and Dayne, who was your enemy, while leaving everyone else. That may lead to more pissed off people. Right now, the only person we know who has a problem with what he did is Lady Dustin. Second, maybe he thought the Daynes would want the sword back more than the body or they could at least forgive the lack of the body because of the sword. Of the little we know about Daynes, we know through Edric they don't have a problem with Ned. So we know that one of these options are somewhat true.

[BalerionTheCat]

People from Starfall could have arranged for the bones to be returned. But he didn't have time for that or for anything else... Except he had time to bring down a tower. Maybe not a big one. But just he and Howland... and horses. Because all these guys had horses. But not to transport dead bodies...