Robert Baratheon's hammer Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Bessy because she has great big tits that you can bury your face in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime4Brienne Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 On 2/20/2016 at 2:11 PM, norwaywolf123 said: Podrick Payne I like Podrick too! If LSH has murdered him I hope Brienne cuts her up into little pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 On 20/2/2016 at 2:17 PM, Laughing Storm Reborn said: Robert, because he's Achilles all over again... Now that I am thinking about it you are correct. From the god ancestor, the charisma, physical power to his broken heart and the results that it has got Robert is totally like Achilles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 44 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Now that I am thinking about it you are correct. From the god ancestor, the charisma, physical power to his broken heart and the results that it has got Robert is totally like Achilles. Surely the best Achilles parallel is Loras? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Just now, Horse of Kent said: Surely the best Achilles parallel is Loras? I don't think so. Robert fits better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Jaime Lannister. Great character development, charisma, fun read, very nuanced. And hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I'm a Jon Snow fanboy (shocking given my name, I know). Extremely well done "hero" character who is capable of reevaluating his positions in light of new information and making decisions that he believes are right, but he often has huge blindspots that I think overall make him more endearing, even if they do make him somewhat hypocritical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 4 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: I don't think so. Robert fits better. Like Robert and Achilles, Loras is charismatic and strong. However, unlike Robert who was betrothed to a reluctant Lyanna, Loras and Renly's love was present and reciprocated. Both L&R and Achilles and Patroclus are same-sex relationships. Robert's fit of madness was as a result of Lyanna being abducted, whilst Achilles and Loras' is at the news of P and R's death. The latter two have a more immediate violent outburst in killing the Trojans including Hector/Cuy and Royce. Whereas Robert goes to his death still cursing the Targs, Loras and Achilles realise that their initial anger was somewhat misplaced. You also have the parallel with Garlan wearing Renly's armour to strike fear into Stannis' men, much as Patroclus wore Achilles'. Though I suppose if Lyanna is the KotLT, there is some similarity in Robert's story too. As well as Achilles' story being an inspiration for Robert, the love triangle of Rob-Lyanna-Rhaegar is quite similar to Menelaus-Helen-Paris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Horse of Kent said: Achilles and Patroclus are same-sex relationships Not according to Homer. 2 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said: As well as Achilles' story being an inspiration for Robert, the love triangle of Rob-Lyanna-Rhaegar is quite similar to Menelaus-Helen-Paris. Yet Menelaus and Robert have no similarities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Not according to Homer. Well, neither is Loras and Renly's relationship explicitly drawn out for us by GRRM. But it is still there. 1 minute ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Yet Menelaus and Robert have no similarities. Few indeed, but the general structure of their stories is similar. I doubt GRRM directly lifts his characters from one source, but mixes and matches from a variety of inspirations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Stannis mfcking Baratheon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 43 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said: Few indeed, but the general structure of their stories is similar. I doubt GRRM directly lifts his characters from one source, but mixes and matches from a variety of inspirations. The only is that both were involved in a love triangle. Similarities between Achilles and Robert: Divine ancestry. Personal charisma. Physical strength. Had many affairs. Being broken after the loss of his people. 43 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said: Well, neither is Loras and Renly's relationship explicitly drawn out for us by GRRM. But it is still there. Ned and Robert also had a close relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 7 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Now that I am thinking about it you are correct. From the god ancestor, the charisma, physical power to his broken heart and the results that it has got Robert is totally like Achilles. Jaime is the best Achilles parallel, not Robert or Loras. In fact I think the reference is built in by GRRM. Jaime is partly Achilles, Tyrion is partly Odysseus and Cersei is Circe, turning men into pigs. Jaime has that demi god aspect to his looks and skills, he is the best swordsman because he is "faster than anyone" (Achilles is referred to as the fleet one, the fastest one), Tyrion loves Jaime's "fine wrath" and despite his skills Jaime has been inactive for most of the plot, like Achilles sulking, - as a warrior at least, he is unused potential. On first reading I thought he must be going to burst forth suddenly with vengeance and become a main player, but I think its all got a little more complicated than that. Tyrion is cunning, uses it in his daily interactions with others, and is now suffering set backs ad not in control of his voyage in exile, and wanting to come hime and reclaim his birthright. Odysseus is very much the human man, not a demi god, referred to as the cunning one, the man of twists and turns , and also as the sacker of cities, something Tyrion is aspiring to by wanting to seek out and join Dany. Back to the OP, besides Jaime I found the most absorbing characters Catelyn, Arya and Sansa. I find what is happening to Arya and Sansa over the long term pretty creepy though, they seem to be losing their souls in a sense. I think GRRM did a really good job with Catelyn's POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 If anyone is a demi-god in asoiaf is a durrandon blooded person... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here's Looking At You, Kid Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 I love Daenerys. Hers are the chapters that I look forward to reading. I love magic, action, dragons, war tactics. She's the coolest person in the story. A real princess who can ride dragons with an awesome destiny ahead of her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Jaime. So marvellously convoluted and utterly unpredictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 9 hours ago, Castellan said: Jaime has that demi god aspect to his looks and skills, he is the best swordsman because he is "faster than anyone" 9 hours ago, Laughing Storm Reborn said: If anyone is a demi-god in asoiaf is a durrandon blooded person... This. Robert has the blood and everything else. Last time I read the Iliad Achilles hadn't killed the King he was suppossed to protect or had abomination born of twincest for his children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 11 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: The only is that both were involved in a love triangle. Similarities between Achilles and Robert: Divine ancestry. Personal charisma. Physical strength. Had many affairs. Being broken after the loss of his people. As I said above, I agree. I was merely pointing out that the Iliadic inspirations for Robert's character go beyond Achilles. A better example would probably be Agamemnon - particularly Aeschylus' interpretation of him in the eponymous tragedy. 11 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Ned and Robert also had a close relationship. Not in a culture where same sex relationships were the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Horse of Kent said: As I said above, I agree. I was merely pointing out that the Iliadic inspirations for Robert's character go beyond Achilles. A better example would probably be Agamemnon - particularly Aeschylus' interpretation of him in the eponymous tragedy. Sorry I still don’t see it. Unlike Agamemnon, Robert hadn’t caused his wife’s hate because he almost sacrificed his daughter and wasn’t later revenged by his remaining children. Agamemnon wasn’t an unrivalled warrior, even Jaime had Barri and Arthur but Robert had none. The only similarity between Agamemnon and Robert is that they were killed by their wives and nothing more. Just like the only difference between Achilles and Robert is that Achilles died young at the peak of his power, Robert lived a broken life. Someone could say that Robert did *died* after the end of the Rebellion. 2 hours ago, Horse of Kent said: Not in a culture where same sex relationships were the norm. And? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 20 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Now that I am thinking about it you are correct. From the god ancestor, the charisma, physical power to his broken heart and the results that it has got Robert is totally like Achilles. We do agree on a ton of stuff JQC, not a surprise 2 hours ago, Horse of Kent said: As I said above, I agree. I was merely pointing out that the Iliadic inspirations for Robert's character go beyond Achilles. A better example would probably be Agamemnon - particularly Aeschylus' interpretation of him in the eponymous tragedy. the achilles comparison is just a fan associastion of both tales that i love, grrm never said achilles was a close inspiration for any asoiaf character, Robert if anyone, is based on Edward IV, then some aspects make me remember achilles, yeah like said above other asoiaf warriors have that too because achilles was THE WARRIOR in western literature (i'm portuguese, we have viriatus, our first king henry, albuquerque the mars of the sea, tons of others in the age of discovery, etc) but achilles is the basis for every warrior, even the more famous demigods like hercules who storywise are older but in reality were invented later... Robert just reminds me more of him, not only because of the demigod durrandon blood (because stannis has too, and renly) but because he screams war even more than jaime or barristan, in both feats and human behaviour, sometimes people think achilles is like the benioff travesty brad pitt crap, cool and colected most of the time, THE GUY WAS EMOTION 100% of the iliad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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