Horrible, Evil, Dishnoroable Act that Jon Connington will Commit

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

2 hours ago, kimim said:

Yeah, no, don't see JonCon raping anyone, female or male. What I do see is JonCon inadvertently spreading a plague that kills many Westerosi, including the supposed son of his beloved Rhaegar. That wouldn't be "dishonorable," but it would be on Jon for hiding his disease and staying with Aegon. That sort of tragic failure on his part would dwarf what happened in Stony Sept. 

And this would happen when? Will there be a ten-year gap between TWoW and ADoS? Greyscale is fatal over many years, akin to AIDS. It is not the equivalent of the Plague (which would be the Pale Mare.)

Edit: Except of course if Val's aversion to greyscale indicates the Free Folk know something about greyscale that would mean it's more dangerous than presently believed.

Edit 2: Just checked the wiki, apparently there is a Grey Plague. Oops.

[Leonardo]

2 hours ago, RoamingRonin said:

You left out this part:
 

JonCon is not concerned about his own future. It's all about Aegon. The popular theory is that Aegon will willingly marry Arianne Martell, not JonCon. Which makes a lot of sense and there's plenty to suggest that it will happen.

I don't think JonCon is opposed to the idea of killing any Baratheon or any Baratheon heir. So if/when Aegon and the Golden Company taken King's Landing, Tommen would definitely be in trouble. Shireen and Myrcella have their own problems so it's not likely JonCon will have anything to do with them. I could see Tommen being killed and Cersei kept as a hostage. That's what should have happened to Elia. Her children were the risk but not Elia herself. It would be a nice (yet cruel) mirror of previous circumstances.

 

Aegon and Rhaenys were just prince and princess; Tommen is king and will have been for some time. He must die 

[Nyrhex]

5 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

I hold that notion because it is clear in the text when he has his talk with Ned that the children's deaths had an impact on him. It is less than likely Varys has the little birds killed considering he will have Illyrio go through the trouble of finding him mutilated ones and deal with a shortage rather than just creating them.

Oh that was class A bullshit. Varys can't care less for the death of kids. According to him he replaced Aegon with a kid he purchased for a bottle of wine to get his head smashed up. He had no problem to let that kid die when we are talking about the guy that can remain hidden in the Red Keep for months. Is there any reason to assume that he can get one kid to safety, but not the girl? Not both, or the mother, when they hear battle raging in the streets? The keep did not fall first. Where was Varys at the time? How is it that he managed to miss the slaughter? He was not next to Aerys, that we know for sure. No hidden doors and passages to help smuggle the royals? The only reason there are hidden passages is for the royal family to escape exactly this sort of thing. And yet somehow they had zero help from the guy who knows them all by heart.

Because for Varys, this was a massive boon. The royal family is killed off, the fewer Targs the better, and now he has a babe he can replace with a Blackfyre. He should have kissed Gregor's bloody gauntlets for doing him the favor and smashing the babe's head so it's even harder to determin if he is Aegon or not.

And he places an order for dozens of mute kids in AGOT, insisting that they be mutilated in order to keep quite, no matter how difficult it is to get more. Yes, it is highly likely that he kills the older ones considering that we don't see ones after he was in office for nearly two decades, and considering the risk they pose once they grow up to realise that they are freaking slaves in all but name. If he says that he needs scores more and damn the costs, yes, that sounds like the kind of guy that would get rid of the ones that grow older, the ones who have a chance to realise that they are his slaves in all but name.

Varys is, in all likelyhood, a Blackfyre partisan, and if killing a few kids aids him in that he would do it without a second thought. The guy admits back in AGOT to have been planning a war, and only shows concern that it is going to start before he has other parts of his plan ready. A civil war that killed thousands on the field of battle and an untold number, likely around the tens of thousands of common folk, all because this guy wants the right family to be in charge. The instant he thinks the war is coming to an end, that someone can bring back peace, he kills that chance with a crossbow and steers the realm for more woe and suffering and death and destruction. More war means more dead fathers and slaughtered mothers and children, but Varys could not care less, he has gone too far to back down now, and if he has to restart a war because it ended too soon for his liking, he will, the deathtoll be damned. So don't tell me that he gives a shit about the plight of the common folk, the guy is directly responsible for far more death and destruction than Elia and her children and the people who died in the Sack of King's Landing, but he doesn't care, because in the end he will have the right family on top. In the end he will have a kid who has been raised to be prince fucking charming, and that would help the realm, right? Like it did Aegon V? Like it did Rhaegar? Like it did Baelor? Like it did a whole bunch of great promises of thier generation? 

Varys' sole justification for causing untold misery is that he wants the next heir in his little Crusader Kings 2 game to have good opening stats, and the right family name. No, that is not an acceptable reasoning, that does not paint him as someone who gives a fuck about innocent lives. That makes him a monster. Sorry, but actions speak louder than words. Not a single thing he said about serving the realm or the plight of the commons was genuine, by his actions he shows no such care for either. fAegon would only look like a better alternative after Varys has made damn sure that the realm bleeds as much as possible, and they would flock to anyone that would sound like he has hald a chance to brings things to order. 

[chrisdaw]

Yeah rightyo

[WitchyBex]

Jon Connington's role is to bring greyscale into Westeros.

[Ser Hyle]

13 hours ago, Neds Secret said:

Rape is not sex, rape is about power which is nothing to do with sex, Jon con to me seems honourable and decent shock totally negates the possibility of him forcing himself on a woman which is perhaps the most dishonourable thing a man can do in life! For a gay man with plenty of honor to become aroused whilst trying to accomplish this would seem to me to be almost impossible.

Now I'm confused. If rape is not sex, then how would his being gay or not play into his physical ability to rape a woman?

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

I agree with Hyle, just because JC is gay does not mean he would be incapable of raping a woman.  Plenty of straight men rape other men when they are in prison or when they are trying to break a prisoner of war, for instance.  It's something they prepare you for in the military, if you get captured there's a really high chance, depending on what army captures you, of course, that you're going to get raped.

I've also known plenty of gay men who were able to father children because they felt they needed to - and in their cases, they just wanted a family or to cover for the fact they are gay.  JC is very highly motivated to put Aegon on the throne and if he thinks he needs to rape a woman to do so, he will be able to.

 

[aryagonnakill#2]

9 hours ago, Nyrhex said:

Oh that was class A bullshit. Varys can't care less for the death of kids. According to him he replaced Aegon with a kid he purchased for a bottle of wine to get his head smashed up. He had no problem to let that kid die when we are talking about the guy that can remain hidden in the Red Keep for months. Is there any reason to assume that he can get one kid to safety, but not the girl? Not both, or the mother, when they hear battle raging in the streets? The keep did not fall first. Where was Varys at the time? How is it that he managed to miss the slaughter? He was not next to Aerys, that we know for sure. No hidden doors and passages to help smuggle the royals? The only reason there are hidden passages is for the royal family to escape exactly this sort of thing. And yet somehow they had zero help from the guy who knows them all by heart.

Because for Varys, this was a massive boon. The royal family is killed off, the fewer Targs the better, and now he has a babe he can replace with a Blackfyre. He should have kissed Gregor's bloody gauntlets for doing him the favor and smashing the babe's head so it's even harder to determin if he is Aegon or not.

And he places an order for dozens of mute kids in AGOT, insisting that they be mutilated in order to keep quite, no matter how difficult it is to get more. Yes, it is highly likely that he kills the older ones considering that we don't see ones after he was in office for nearly two decades, and considering the risk they pose once they grow up to realise that they are freaking slaves in all but name. If he says that he needs scores more and damn the costs, yes, that sounds like the kind of guy that would get rid of the ones that grow older, the ones who have a chance to realise that they are his slaves in all but name.

Varys is, in all likelyhood, a Blackfyre partisan, and if killing a few kids aids him in that he would do it without a second thought. The guy admits back in AGOT to have been planning a war, and only shows concern that it is going to start before he has other parts of his plan ready. A civil war that killed thousands on the field of battle and an untold number, likely around the tens of thousands of common folk, all because this guy wants the right family to be in charge. The instant he thinks the war is coming to an end, that someone can bring back peace, he kills that chance with a crossbow and steers the realm for more woe and suffering and death and destruction. More war means more dead fathers and slaughtered mothers and children, but Varys could not care less, he has gone too far to back down now, and if he has to restart a war because it ended too soon for his liking, he will, the deathtoll be damned. So don't tell me that he gives a shit about the plight of the common folk, the guy is directly responsible for far more death and destruction than Elia and her children and the people who died in the Sack of King's Landing, but he doesn't care, because in the end he will have the right family on top. In the end he will have a kid who has been raised to be prince fucking charming, and that would help the realm, right? Like it did Aegon V? Like it did Rhaegar? Like it did Baelor? Like it did a whole bunch of great promises of thier generation? 

Varys' sole justification for causing untold misery is that he wants the next heir in his little Crusader Kings 2 game to have good opening stats, and the right family name. No, that is not an acceptable reasoning, that does not paint him as someone who gives a fuck about innocent lives. That makes him a monster. Sorry, but actions speak louder than words. Not a single thing he said about serving the realm or the plight of the commons was genuine, by his actions he shows no such care for either. fAegon would only look like a better alternative after Varys has made damn sure that the realm bleeds as much as possible, and they would flock to anyone that would sound like he has hald a chance to brings things to order. 

I don't think Varys even waits until they get older.  Doesn't Ilyrio say something along the lines of "You use them up so quickly".  I bet as soon as they learn something too dangerous to get out he offs them.  There is also a line when he is leading Tyrion out that he tells Tyrion to put out his torch because there is something he would not want to see in the next room.  It seems likely to either by the wildfire or the dead kids.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

It's all right, calm down... I'm here. 

(minor spoilers for Arianne II below)

 

Through Dance with Dragons there have been hints that points to Jon becoming not only a monster, but a very specific monster: Tywin Lannister. The main one being this:

Alone in the tent, as the gold and scarlet rays of the setting sun shone through the open flap, Jon Connington shrugged off his wolfskin cloak, slipped his mail shirt off over his head, settled on a camp stool, and peeled the glove from his right hand. The nail on his middle finger had turned as black as jet, he saw, and the grey had crept up almost to the first knuckle. The tip of his ring finger had begun to darken too, and when he touched it with the point of his dagger, he felt nothing.

(where is the option to move this to the right???? I DEMAND IT!)

What this paragraph means?

The Gold and Scarlet colours are Lannister colours. And, this is also the paragraph in which we discover he has greyscale: he's turning into a literal and figurative monster that is shaped after Tywin Lannister (he's been compared with him and even Tywin said the only problem with him was his youth).

Many claim that he's bringing greyscale to Westeros. But I disagree. The greyscale is a plot device for Jon -and for him only- to become reckless and act impulsively. He's already acting based on the fact he has no time, and this is affecting his own thoughts and decisions. The greyscale can be also, imo, a tool for him to eventually decided to leave Aegon on his own and head to the Wall and meet Rhaegar's real son. But that's for a different thread.

For those who haven't yet read Arianne II, there is a small indicative of Jon Connington's campaign. They are foraging but he has given specific orders to NOT RAPE WOMEN, which his men are obeying (and finding some loopholes too). This goes, I suppose, in agreement of Aegon being perceived as a benevolent rulers that protects his people, but I also believe it goes with Jon's temperament, as he's pretty much a moralist. So far, this puts a precedent on how he's opposed to Tywin (who ordered one and many rapes by Clegane).

Now, some are suggesting he would rape a woman. Why would he? In any case, he would rape a man (man can be victims of rape too, you know?). But no, I doubt he would. It doesn't really go with his character to do such thing and this is not the GoT show where people just go around raping because it's shocking. Seriously, Jon Connington would never rape a human being.

So, the most likely thing to do is killing one of the "Baratheon" children, which is also foreshadowed:

Some stone men live for ten. Time enough to cross the sea, to see Griffin' s Roost again. To end the Usurper' s line for good and all, and put Rhaegar's son upon the Iron Throne.

 This hints at two things:

1. Kill a "Baratheon" children (remember he doesn't know yet they are bastards. How convenient).

2. Realise he put the wrong child on the throne and probably, an eventual meeting with Jon Snow.

Jon Connington talks too much about the things he wants and needs to do, but the guy is a softy (and a romantic inside). He might kill one of the children, and then, ran to the North on his own will, realising he would rather die alone. He might see himself as Tywin Lannister reborn, but unlike Tywin, he has a conscience and sense of moral.

 

 

[JonCon's Red Beard]

13 hours ago, RoamingRonin said:

You left out this part:
 

JonCon is not concerned about his own future. It's all about Aegon. The popular theory is that Aegon will willingly marry Arianne Martell, not JonCon. Which makes a lot of sense and there's plenty to suggest that it will happen.

 

There have been more suggestions for an Arianne / Jon Con marriage than an Aegon / Arianne one (and fewer for a Jon / Aegon :P)

Aegon wants to marry Dany.

Jon wants Aegon to marry Dany.

Spoiler

Arianne has a very good impression of Jon and believes Aegon to be just his pet.

The fact Jon has said he doesn't want to marry Arianne doesn't mean he won't marry her eventually if he needs too.

Also, Arianne wants Dorne. Marrying Aegon would mean leave Dorne for Trystane. Marrying Jon, otoh, doesn't mean she would have to give up her rights.

[Sigella]

22 hours ago, HouseFossoway said:

So we learn in A Dance with Dragons that Jon Connington during Robert's Rebellion had Robert cornered in Stoney Sept but couldn't find him before Robert's allies came to chase Jon Connington off. This battle is often thought of as the turning point of the rebellion when Robert's side first seemed to have a real chance of winning. According to Myles Toyne, Connington should have "burned that town and every living creature in it" and "sent his men in to find the bones of Robert Baratheon", because that is what Tywin would've done, which we can probably guess is true. Then we get this internal thought from Connington:

---He was not wrong, Jon Connington reflected, leaning on the battlements of his forebears. I wanted the glory of slaying Robert in single combat, and I did not want the name of butcher. So Robert escaped me and cut down Rhaegar on the Trident. "I failed the father," he said, "but I will not fail the son." --- The Griffin Reborn, A Dance with Dragons.

 

I think that this is foreshadowing for Jon Connington. I think that Jon Connington is going to be in a position where he has to do some extremely horrible act in order to help Aegon win the throne. From a character development stance, it's what makes the most sense for how his character's history is going to affect his current trajectory.

 

So what do you think will be this dishonorable, horrible, act that Jon Connington will commit to help Aegon?

Two possibilities I thought of are:

He's going to execute Tommen or Myrcella or Shireen, simply to remove a challeneger to the Iron Throne even though they are arguably three of the most innocent characters in the series 

 

He's going to forcibly marry and rape Arianne or Margaery or Sansa or another woman to force that woman's family into siding with Aegon, instead of the Lannisters, or perhaps Daenerys. There's also foreshadowing for this when Haldon Halfmaester suggests that Jon Connington offer his hand in marriage. He tells Jon Connington that:

"You are unwed. A great lord, still virile, with no heirs except these cousins we have just now dispossessed, the scion of an ancient House with a fine stout castle and wide, rich lands that will no doubt be restored and perhaps expanded by a grateful king, once we have triumphed. You have a name as a warrior, and as King Aegon's Hand you will speak with his voice and rule this realm in all but name. I would think that many an ambitious lord might be eager to wed his daughter to such a man. Even, perhaps, the prince of Dorne."

 

 

I think he might try to kill Dany.

[purple-eyes]

13 minutes ago, JonCon's Red Beard said:

 There have been more suggestions for an Arianne / Jon Con marriage than an Aegon / Arianne one (and fewer for a Jon / Aegon :P)

Aegon wants to marry Dany.

Jon wants Aegon to marry Dany.

  Hide contents

Arianne has a very good impression of Jon and believes Aegon to be just his pet.

The fact Jon has said he doesn't want to marry Arianne doesn't mean he won't marry her eventually if he needs too.

Also, Arianne wants Dorne. Marrying Aegon would mean leave Dorne for Trystane. Marrying Jon, otoh, doesn't mean she would have to give up her rights.

Why would a young and beautiful princess arianne be interested in a 40 year old gay man with grey scale who also hated and looked down on her aunt Elia Martell? 

Where did you see she had a very good impression on him? From the new chapter, arianne did not trust them and even felt they are her enemy. All she saw in the cape wrath were negative. 

She liked handsome men, by the way, have we been told joncon is handsome? 

 

 

 

 

[Cryler]

Spread greyscale around Westeros. Then when one village has a noticeably bad outbreak torch the place to prevent the spread killing everybody, while knowing he is patient zero all along. 

 

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Just now, purple-eyes said:

Why would a young and beautiful princess arianne be interested in a 40 year old gay man with grey scale who also hated and looked down on her aunt Elia Martell? 

Arianne doesn't know what Jon thinks about Elia.
 

Just now, purple-eyes said:

Where did you see she had a very good impression on him? From the new chapter, arianne did not trust them and even felt they are her enemy. All she saw in the cape wrath were negative. 

She considers him smart and someone who has her father's temple (a bit of Freudian excuse here?). She also know he's in charge. And also, he's Aegon's man.

Just now, purple-eyes said:

She liked handsome men, by the way, have we been told joncon is handsome?

She likes handsome men, but what she likes is strong men too. She also likes to seduce. And here you have the most unseduceable man ever.

[SeanF]

There have been more suggestions for an Arianne / Jon Con marriage than an Aegon / Arianne one (and fewer for a Jon / Aegon )

Aegon wants to marry Dany.

Jon wants Aegon to marry Dany.

Hide contents Arianne has a very good impression of Jon and believes Aegon to be just his pet.

The fact Jon has said he doesn't want to marry Arianne doesn't mean he won't marry her eventually if he needs too.

Also, Arianne wants Dorne. Marrying Aegon would mean leave Dorne for Trystane. Marrying Jon, otoh, doesn't mean she would have to give up her rights.

Why would a young and beautiful princess arianne be interested in a 40 year old gay man with grey scale who also hated and looked down on her aunt Elia Martell?

Where did you see she had a very good impression on him? From the new chapter, arianne did not trust them and even felt they are her enemy. All she saw in the cape wrath were negative.

She liked handsome men, by the way, have we been told joncon is handsome?

Arianne likes handsome young men - a lot. But, she is well aware that marriage for people of her status is a political move.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

38 minutes ago, SeanF said:

 

Arianne likes handsome young men - a lot. But, she is well aware that marriage for people of her status is a political move.

 

She said she was done with handsome young men.

Also, Jon Con is old now? He's 36 at most. You know who are 36? Jake Gyllenhaal, Channing Tatum, Charlie Hunnam, Ryan Gosling Chris Pine and

THAT GUY.  A red headish blue eyed 36 years old guy. I'm sure that Arianne would see him and say "ergh, I don't like a guy like him". I would him, even if he hated my aunt, my parents, and me.

[the Scorpion Knight]

19 hours ago, Nyrhex said:

You seem to hold the notion that Varys gives a fuck about killing kids.

You do remember that we are talking about the guy that imports mutilated children by the dozens, right? Did you ever stop to think why they are always little kids and why there are no "bigger birds" running around? Because like Peter Pan in the non-Disneyfied version, it is more than likely that Varys simply has them killed instead of risking they grow... less managable.

...

 

ever gotten the idea that killing them is also stupid, counterproductive and a waste of good and loyal personal.

Varys imho is a pragmatic: If they grow to old/big give them a diffrent job like the Anti-spy unit and householdstaff in llyrios mansion

 

14 hours ago, Leonardo said:

 

Aegon and Rhaenys were just prince and princess; Tommen is king and will have been for some time. He must die 

must he? nymeria and aegon would disagree with you. there's also the Wall, the Citadel, the Faith also possible a lesser lordship,

imprisonment for live in a golden cage.  
 

 

[purple-eyes]

1 hour ago, JonCon's Red Beard said:

She said she was done with handsome young men.

Also, Jon Con is old now? He's 36 at most. You know who are 36? Jake Gyllenhaal, Channing Tatum, Charlie Hunnam, Ryan Gosling Chris Pine and

THAT GUY.  A red headish blue eyed 36 years old guy. I'm sure that Arianne would see him and say "ergh, I don't like a guy like him". I would him, even if he hated my aunt, my parents, and me.

The problem is that joncon is not a handsome guy like the ones you mentioned. The guys you mentioned are loved by being handsome, not by being 36. 

Even we do not consider he is gay and he had grey scale, he is also sort of harsh and mean. 

 

 

[JonCon's Red Beard]

5 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

The problem is that joncon is not a handsome guy like the ones you mentioned. The guys you mentioned are loved by being handsome, not by being 36. 

How do you know he's not handsome? It has ever been stated in the books he is not?

5 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

Even we do not consider he is gay and he had grey scale, he is also sort of harsh and mean.

First, the fact he's gay is meaningless because the term doesn't actually exist in Westeros. Jon Con, gay or not, still was supposed to get married to a woman to have heirs and that's something he always knew he would have to do. So, the prospect to marry a woman is not new for him. He would have done it and he would do it now if he needs an alliance.

Also, remember Arianne tried to flirt with Renly.

Now, being harsh and mean is something we've seen of him during a time in which he's plotting an invasion. He seems to be kind towards Aegon.

The only thing against him is the greyscale, and that can be solved by him telling Arianne and keeping the marriage strictly politic until he dies. That way, Arianne can later marry again and move on.

[purple-eyes]

Just now, JonCon's Red Beard said:

How do you know he's not handsome? It has ever been stated in the books he is not?

First, the fact he's gay is meaningless because the term doesn't actually exist in Westeros. Jon Con, gay or not, still was supposed to get married to a woman to have heirs and that's something he always knew he would have to do. So, the prospect to marry a woman is not new for him. He would have done it and he would do it now if he needs an alliance.

Also, remember Arianne tried to flirt with Renly.

Now, being harsh and mean is something we've seen of him during a time in which he's plotting an invasion. He seems to be kind towards Aegon.

The only thing against him is the greyscale, and that can be solved by him telling Arianne and keeping the marriage strictly politic until he dies. That way, Arianne can later marry again and move on.

The book even detailedly described his clothing by eyes of tyrion. If he is handsome, we would know already. It is more likely that he is not handsome than he is. If he is handsome enough, Tyrion would mention that. 

What? Keep marriage political until he dies? It can be five years, 10 years, Why would arianne wants to keep this fake marriage with him for uncertain time even if she does not mind his disease?