Logan-First R Rated Wolverine Movie?

[Bastard of Boston]

7 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

 

Spoiler

 

1.Wait, why are there no new mutants born in the last, what’d Xavier say, 25 years? Please, ‘splain dat to me again Dr. Rice!?!?

2. WTF happened “a year ago” with Charles in Westchester and which X-Men did he kill? The radio report made it sound like Xavier killed seven X-Men. Who?!? How? Why is implied, but the rest needed a flashback.

3. Why is it Dr. Rice and not Mr. Sinister the main behind the scenes pulling the strings? I get Rice has ties to the Weapon X project, but Age of Apocalypse and Bryan Singer told us we’d have fucking Mr. Sinister! http://collider.com/wolverine-3-mister-sinister-bryan-singer/ [My guess is he was supposed to be the big bad Wolvie fights to the death, but they thought it’d be all symbolic” if the only thing that could kill Wolverine was another Wolverine, hence X-24.

4. When, how, and why did the X-Men go from hated and feared mutant scum to beloved superheroes like the Avengers? Why are there X-Men comics and toys in this universe now?

5. What’s Eden and who runs it? Why is Eden even necessary if the X-Men made mutants viewed as superheroes in this world!?!? And if these kids aren’t “natural mutants” what makes Eden so eager to take these kids in? Yeah, just Eden in general is a big fucking question mark.

 

And some less crucial points that still irked me:

6. Why are Dr. Rice & the Reevers only in pursuit of Laura? Why not the other escaped kids?

7. Speaking of which, who got those other X-23 kids to the rendezvous point in North Dakota? Presumably the other nurses, but where are they?

8. How the hell did Laura get Logan in to the hospital after Xavier’s burial? Please tell me there’s not a dead fisherman and his dog back by that pond/lake! “What’s in the box, Laura? What’s in the boooox?!?”

9. Why did Logan ask Caliban to help with Xavier? And why is he a complete 180 from the Caliban in Age of Apocalypse?

10. How do Dr. Rice & co. know where Logan and Xavier are hiding but not the US government? You’d think after what’s implied to have happened in Westchester that Xavier be on their most wanted list.

11. How are those X-23 kids gonna be on a time crunch to cross the border to Eden but have enough time to move and bury Logan? Shouldn’t other government agencies still have been in pursuit of them after the first wave was wiped out?

 

 

Spoiler

 

Rice did explain why there were no new mutant births. Diet. Governments treated food to combat the X-gene, so people stopped giving birth to mutants. Mutants became a blip on the radar and were "cured" out of being birthed.

I think it's interesting that you characterize this plot as "complex." I thought the plot was beyond simplistic. Ultimately, you wanted answers to questions that, in my opinion, were irrelevant. We didn't need to know about Haven because this movie wasn't about Haven. All we needed to know is that this Haven place is a refuge.

Society at large might have come around on mutants, but you need to take into account that the reason why the mutant kids were being hunted was not because they were mutants, specifically, but because they were "failed" experiments the big bad wanted to take out.

You also can't assume that the other kids weren't being followed -- all those kids were being chased. We followed Laura's journey because her handler decided to go to Wolverine for help, and this was his movie. I'm sure all of those other kids had similar experiences. We could question what happened to their handlers, but again, this isn't their movie/story.

Does it truly matter if Sinister wasn't in the movie after he was teased? He didn't end up being in the movie -- it's not a failure on the movie's part. We judge based on what we got, not what didn't make the cut.

 

 

[Winterfell is Burning]

One of the greatest superhero films of all time. It's great to see a somewhat out of continuity film that allows for real stakes. Jackman has never been better and Stewart was great too.

[williamjm]

I thought it was a good film, and one that's not quite like any other superhero film I can think of. For all their past faults Fox in the last year have been doing some refreshingly different things with their superhero adaptations between Deadpool, Legion and this (although the less said about Apocalypse the better). It's good that at the third attempt they finally managed to make a Wolverine movie that lived up to its potential. Jackman and Stewart were unsurprisingly great, they've always been good as those characters but I think this is the best performance by both of them. The supporting cast was also good, particularly Dafne Keen as Laura. 

By this stage it's probably best not to try to figure out how any X-Men film fits in continuity with the other X-Men films, but I think this managed to stand its own, I may be curious about the details of what happened in Westchester but I don't think it's necessary for this film to know the details.

Although this vision of the future is relatively light on futuristic elements, I did like the subtle elements like the AI-driven trucks or the giant mechanised harvesters.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

10 hours ago, Bastard of Boston said:

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[1]Rice did explain why there were no new mutant births. Diet. Governments treated food to combat the X-gene, so people stopped giving birth to mutants. Mutants became a blip on the radar and were "cured" out of being birthed.

[2]I think it's interesting that you characterize this plot as "complex." I thought the plot was beyond simplistic. Ultimately, you wanted answers to questions that, in my opinion, were irrelevant. We didn't need to know about Haven because this movie wasn't about Haven. All we needed to know is that this Haven place is a refuge.

[3]Society at large might have come around on mutants, but you need to take into account that the reason why the mutant kids were being hunted was not because they were mutants, specifically, but because they were "failed" experiments the big bad wanted to take out.

[4]You also can't assume that the other kids weren't being followed -- all those kids were being chased. We followed Laura's journey because her handler decided to go to Wolverine for help, and this was his movie. I'm sure all of those other kids had similar experiences. We could question what happened to their handlers, but again, this isn't their movie/story.

[5]Does it truly matter if Sinister wasn't in the movie after he was teased? He didn't end up being in the movie -- it's not a failure on the movie's part. We judge based on what we got, not what didn't make the cut.

 

 

RE: The plot gaps in general under my "The Bad" heading

They were distracting, so that does make them relevant to my movie-going experience. 

[1]This is the only one of my points that's technically explained in the film, and I allude to that with my Dr. Rice reference in my original critique. However, the explanation for such a HUGE shift in this X-Men universe is in the middle of a loud, adrenaline fueled action scene on the heels of Xavier being murdered by a Wolverine clone! That's a lot to fucking process. The basic "M-Day" type extinction of mutants is given to rushed exposition and not afforded the gravitas it deserved in the film.

[2] It's not just a stand alone film. This is an X-Men film. So I believe those questions are relevant if this is to be the end of a franchise before another reboot. I'll just quote myself here again: Granted, if this was a stand alone film then the minimal explanations would be great service to the pacing of the plot. However, that’s not the case here! LOGAN is in a universe with nine previous fucking films built behind it. And LOGAN implies way too much with no explanation.

[3] I'm in agreement with you here. This wasn't even a criticism of mine or point of confusion for me. I'm guessing you misread something I wrote, which is understandable because it was long af.

[4] I agree, but a line or two of dialogue from Rictor or another kid is all it'd take to clear it up. We just followed this badass girl and two of the most powerful mutants in history for an hour as they struggled to make the rendezvous. These other little fuckers just showing up magically without one mention of any problems they ran in to just rang false to me. It was jarring.

[5] Again, I realize my original critique was a long post, but I put it in my very first sentence that I went into this film with expectations. And Sinister was a BIG expectation I didn't see met. I was hoping no real mention of him NOT being in the film meant he'd be a secret reveal, so I was waiting through the entire film up to the very last scene for that moment that never happened. The filmmakers allowed me to have that false expectation. So, yes, I definitely can and will label that as a fault of the film.And I definitely don't think me faulting the film for something it was missing is anything radical. People judge cinema on what's NOT in the film just as much as what is IN the film all the time. Hell, I've still got friends who're pissed Jackman never put on the mask in any of the nine films!

[The Anti-Targ]

Saw it on Saturday night. I liked it.

Having the movie set in 2029 I thought was odd, in that it's not all that far in the future in terms of previous movies. It almost seems like it's a rounding off of the consequences of X-men 3, which seems to be no longer movie canon.

So where are they going with X-Men? We're going to continue with a number of X-Men movie set in the past with Mcavoy and Fassbender without Wolverine? Are they going to tell the tale of the destruction of mutants? Are they going to pick up where Logan has left off?

[The Drunkard]

I thought that was great, up there with TDK. I would like to see more of these smaller, simpler movies in future. I'm glad Jackman and Stewart were able to do one great movie before leaving. 

Two minor disappointments:

The villains weren't great. I liked Donald Pierce for the first half of the movie, but when Rice and X-24 showed up he didn't do very much.

I also wish Sabretooth was involved, somehow. I liked Schreiber in Origins and have been hoping that he would return at some point, but it seems pointless without Wolverine now. He may have been a good X-24, given he and Logan lived the same life for a very ling time and both participated in Stryker's programs.

 

[Calibandar]

Like Petyr Pumpkinhead, I have a few questions which I thought were unexplained, or we missed the explanations.

Any thoughts on the below?

1) What is killing Wolverine? Reference is made to something being inside of him by Caliban and the doctor that he meets. Why does he not want this removed from his body, and what is it that is inside him? And how did it get there?

2) What did Charles Xavier actually do? Why is this never explained in the film even though it kept being hinted at? Also, is it ever mentioned what illness he has? Alzheimer? I guess this is not that important but I was just looking for confirmation.

 

[dbunting]

Watched it Saturday morning, 10am showing and it was half full. When it let out there were people waiting to get into the next showing. This at a theatre that was showing it on 3 screens. Knew at that point it would rule the box office this weekend.

Ok, this was finally the Wolverine movie I had wanted to see. This is the Wolverine I remember, not the one who kills robots and does things off screen. It was the claws through the top of the head!!  

[polishgenius]

2 hours ago, Calibandar said:

Like Petyr Pumpkinhead, I have a few questions which I thought were unexplained, or we missed the explanations.

Any thoughts on the below?

 

  Hide contents

 

1) What is killing Wolverine? Reference is made to something being inside of him by Caliban and the doctor that he meets. Why does he not want this removed from his body, and what is it that is inside him? And how did it get there?

2) What did Charles Xavier actually do? Why is this never explained in the film even though it kept being hinted at? Also, is it ever mentioned what illness he has? Alzheimer? I guess this is not that important but I was just looking for confirmation.

 

 

 

 

 

Wolverine's being poisoned by his adamantium. I can't remember the exact moment but this is made pretty explicit towards the end, iirc. 
Xavier killed the rest of the X-Men (and presumably some civilian casualties) during one of his psychic seizures.

Honestly, I thought it was a bonus that the film didn't feel the need to hold my hand through a lot of things and avoided 'as you know' exposition, preferring to let us work it out from hints and context. Refreshing, especially from a blockbuster movie.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

12 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 

 

 

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Wolverine's being poisoned by his adamantium. I can't remember the exact moment but this is made pretty explicit towards the end, iirc. 
Xavier killed the rest of the X-Men (and presumably some civilian casualties) during one of his psychic seizures.

Honestly, I thought it was a bonus that the film didn't feel the need to hold my hand through a lot of things and avoided 'as you know' exposition, preferring to let us work it out from hints and context. Refreshing, especially from a blockbuster movie.

Spoiler

Yeah its revealed in the movie I think Rice mentions it to him. I think if you know about Wolverine then its clear that its only his healing factor that allows him to have an adamantium skeleton and not die and his mutant power stops the poison from killing him. But as his powers get weaker the skeleton ends up becoming more fatal.

 

[The Drunkard]

2 hours ago, Calibandar said:

Like Petyr Pumpkinhead, I have a few questions which I thought were unexplained, or we missed the explanations.

Any thoughts on the below?

 

  Hide contents

 

1) What is killing Wolverine? Reference is made to something being inside of him by Caliban and the doctor that he meets. Why does he not want this removed from his body, and what is it that is inside him? And how did it get there?

2) What did Charles Xavier actually do? Why is this never explained in the film even though it kept being hinted at? Also, is it ever mentioned what illness he has? Alzheimer? I guess this is not that important but I was just looking for confirmation.

 

 

 

1) Adamantium, although I can't remember when/if that was mentioned.

2) On the radio after the casino seizure it's mentioned that what had happened was very similar to the 'Westchester Incident' that killed hundreds of civilians and seven X-Men, and then Charles mentions Westchester as the reason he didn't deserve to be happy. Westchester is where the school was located, so it seems like he killed all of his students and the remaining X-Men (except Logan).

[The BlackBear]

4 hours ago, Calibandar said:

Like Petyr Pumpkinhead, I have a few questions which I thought were unexplained, or we missed the explanations.

Any thoughts on the below?

  Hide contents

 

1) What is killing Wolverine? Reference is made to something being inside of him by Caliban and the doctor that he meets. Why does he not want this removed from his body, and what is it that is inside him? And how did it get there?

2) What did Charles Xavier actually do? Why is this never explained in the film even though it kept being hinted at? Also, is it ever mentioned what illness he has? Alzheimer? I guess this is not that important but I was just looking for confirmation.

Spoiler

 

1. Adamantium is a toxic metal, over time it's begun to overwhelm him. (sorry didn't see the last page of replies.)

2.a Presumably had a seizure, everyone around him all the X-Men froze and couldn't breathe.

2.b Rice says he has Alzheimers and ALS, I'm not familiar with ALS but I assumed it has something to do with dying brain cells.

 

I must confess being a little underwhelmed, it was a good film, and I certainly enjoyed it, but it left me a bit flatter than I was expecting. It was a good send off for Jackman and (almost certainly) Stewart. I hope we don't see a new Wolverine cast anytime soon.

It always takes me a little while to properly arrange my thoughts on films beyond the initial reaction so I'll leave it there for now.

 

 

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

I liked (possibly loved) the movie. But one pet peeve was why did they

Spoiler

kill Boyd Holbrook? They had the motivation, and several oppurtunities. And it's not like they had any compunction against killing any of his mooks.

 

[williamjm]

4 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

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2.b Rice says he has Alzheimers and ALS, I'm not familiar with ALS but I assumed it has something to do with dying brain cells.

 

I think Rice might have phrased that as a question, so I'm not sure it counts as a diagnosis, although he may well be right.

ALS is motor neuron disease, it's what Stephen Hawking has.

[AndrewJ]

 

Either I'm misunderstanding what people are saying here - or I misunderstood in the movie (I don't think so)... But, people are saying we never got to see Eden - and the kids are heading there at the end of the movie?

I don't believe that's so. We did see Eden - it was the shack at the top of the cliff. And we did see the mutants there - it was the kids. Basically, the kids and the nursing stuff took the location of "Eden" from the comic book (which had GPS co-ordinates stated) and chose that as their rendezvous point. It was somewhere that everybody could easily reference and remember. The nurse then just fed Logan a line of bull-shit about a "community of mutants" to get him to take the job, rather than simply saying she was meeting up with a bunch of other kids. And that's why Logan was arguing with Laura in the car - telling her the Eden doesn't exist, it's all made up. And Laura then was adamant about going there and was listing the kids names and showing him the photo - she knew the community of mutants didn't exist - but that's where she was meeting her friends.

Oh - and the oldest kid tried to pay Logan the $30k, saying "you did what you promised and got her here. I understand you were promised this in return".

From there, they were just fleeing across the border into Canada. I can't recall if they had a specific location in Canada to head to or not - but it wasn't Eden.

 

[The Anti-Targ]

26 minutes ago, AndrewJ said:

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Either I'm misunderstanding what people are saying here - or I misunderstood in the movie (I don't think so)... But, people are saying we never got to see Eden - and the kids are heading there at the end of the movie?

I don't believe that's so. We did see Eden - it was the shack at the top of the cliff. And we did see the mutants there - it was the kids. Basically, the kids and the nursing stuff took the location of "Eden" from the comic book (which had GPS co-ordinates stated) and chose that as their rendezvous point. It was somewhere that everybody could easily reference and remember. The nurse then just fed Logan a line of bull-shit about a "community of mutants" to get him to take the job, rather than simply saying she was meeting up with a bunch of other kids. And that's why Logan was arguing with Laura in the car - telling her the Eden doesn't exist, it's all made up. And Laura then was adamant about going there and was listing the kids names and showing him the photo - she knew the community of mutants didn't exist - but that's where she was meeting her friends.

Oh - and the oldest kid tried to pay Logan the $30k, saying "you did what you promised and got her here. I understand you were promised this in return".

From there, they were just fleeing across the border into Canada. I can't recall if they had a specific location in Canada to head to or not - but it wasn't Eden.

 

No?

Spoiler

I thought they still believed Eden was an actual refuge in Canada. Indeed wasn't there a short radio convo at the hill top station saying something like "you are approved to come [to Eden]"? They were just deluded into thinking an X-Men comic was non-fiction.

That's what I was thinking when I left the theatre.

But I had been fasting all day, so my brain function was not optimal by the late afternoon/early evening.

[AndrewJ]

I think it was stated earlier that Eden was in North Dakota. That's where Logan was telling Laura it was and it was two days away - when they were having their argument over it.

I do believe Eden was the shack where they met the other kids, as I mentioned above. But it's highly possibly I'm mistaken.

Oh - and it might be time to add "Spoilers" to the subject title. I forgot to tag my previous post initially. And anyone that is reading a Logan thread without having seen the movie at this stage is crazy. We're getting into detailed discussion of the movie now.

[The Grey Wolf]

Watched the movie Saturday and loved every bloody second of it.

[JonSnow4President]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

No?

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I thought they still believed Eden was an actual refuge in Canada. Indeed wasn't there a short radio convo at the hill top station saying something like "you are approved to come [to Eden]"? They were just deluded into thinking an X-Men comic was non-fiction.

That's what I was thinking when I left the theatre.

But I had been fasting all day, so my brain function was not optimal by the late afternoon/early evening.

I thought they said "your asylum had been approved, we'll wait for you from 12:00 to 5:00" or something along those lines

[Calibandar]

It was a good film. Doesn't get full marks from me, on account of the story towards the end just losing my interest, and secondly the fact that this film simply missed interesting villains. The whole evil scientist vibe feels very "been there, done that".

What does earn it a high rating though are the excellent performances by Jackman and Stewart. Memorable, and a nice send off.