Jump to content

Logan-First R Rated Wolverine Movie?


Manhole Eunuchsbane

Recommended Posts

Claremont not only had continuity, in his first run at least, but actually had the vision of allowing first the original five and then the 'All-New' team (Storm, Wolverine, etc.) to age and mature, eventually either retiring from heroing or even dying off. You can actually see him doing this, for example with Banshee who goes from being active to being a semi-retired mentor figure. This was the reason for starting the New Mutants - they really were supposed to eventually supplant the All-New X-Men in Claremont's vision.

The problem is, of course, that Marvel weren't mad keen on retiring popular characters, so they pushed back against that, particularly when Wolverine became the ubiquitous figure that he did in the late 80s/early 90s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, mormont said:

Claremont not only had continuity, in his first run at least, but actually had the vision of allowing first the original five and then the 'All-New' team (Storm, Wolverine, etc.) to age and mature, eventually either retiring from heroing or even dying off. You can actually see him doing this, for example with Banshee who goes from being active to being a semi-retired mentor figure. This was the reason for starting the New Mutants - they really were supposed to eventually supplant the All-New X-Men in Claremont's vision.

The problem is, of course, that Marvel weren't mad keen on retiring popular characters, so they pushed back against that, particularly when Wolverine became the ubiquitous figure that he did in the late 80s/early 90s.

It also neatly shows the problems inherent in shared universe concepts. If the original 5 age and then the All New do - what about the Fantastic Four and the Avengers etc? It's true that Claremont did seem to push forwards throughout his run where he could get away with it. Even with his return runs he was always keen on bringing in new blood.

I guess in the films the fact the actors age means they are forced into the cinematic world roughly ageing along with the real world. It will be interesting to see how the MCU adapts as RDJR and co get older - do they replace with younger actors and hope no-one notices or do they retire the character for a while and then bring back hoping we don't remember? Or just restart at some point? It's tricky when they are introducing new franchises that are succeeding to do a restart at any point soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, red snow said:

It also neatly shows the problems inherent in shared universe concepts. If the original 5 age and then the All New do - what about the Fantastic Four and the Avengers etc? It's true that Claremont did seem to push forwards throughout his run where he could get away with it. Even with his return runs he was always keen on bringing in new blood.

Yeah, but Claremont never really had a plan to age out the characters- his favorites at least. Storm and Wolverine (who can't age out because of his powers) were never supposed to leave, he continued to write Nightcrawler, Kitty & Colossus in another book, etc. The retiring was only for characters he clearly didn't care about, like Banshee, or that were obstacles, like Cyclops (whom, if he was around, wouldn't allow for him to have his pet character Storm as the leader).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Yeah, but Claremont never really had a plan to age out the characters- his favorites at least. Storm and Wolverine (who can't age out because of his powers) were never supposed to leave, he continued to write Nightcrawler, Kitty & Colossus in another book, etc. The retiring was only for characters he clearly didn't care about, like Banshee, or that were obstacles, like Cyclops (whom, if he was around, wouldn't allow for him to have his pet character Storm as the leader).

That's not my understanding, at all. Claremont's original idea was that all the characters should grow, which meant aging and retiring. True, Wolverine's powers would slow his aging but the central concept was to have a turnover of characters over time.

Excalibur isn't relevant here - that was a sideways move of characters into another title, not a way to stop them aging up. Also, Claremont was the one who kept Cyclops on at first and brought him back into the plot more than once, in contrast to characters like Iceman and Angel who did exactly what Claremont intended all the X-Men to do eventually: they moved on. Bobby even got a non-superhero job as an accountant!

It's true that this plan had been effectively dropped some time before Claremont quit X-Men, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5. 3. 2017 at 9:06 AM, polishgenius said:

Yeah, but surely it's symbolic to both her and the viewers of the same thing, ie

  Reveal hidden contents

him being an X-Man?

 

Wolverine was the Weapon X, the original one. He was one of those who followed Captain America as another enhanced individual. X-Men movies made a mess of it.

On 6. 3. 2017 at 3:31 AM, The Drunkard said:

I thought that was great, up there with TDK. I would like to see more of these smaller, simpler movies in future. I'm glad Jackman and Stewart were able to do one great movie before leaving. 

Two minor disappointments:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The villains weren't great. I liked Donald Pierce for the first half of the movie, but when Rice and X-24 showed up he didn't do very much.

I also wish Sabretooth was involved, somehow. I liked Schreiber in Origins and have been hoping that he would return at some point, but it seems pointless without Wolverine now. He may have been a good X-24, given he and Logan lived the same life for a very ling time and both participated in Stryker's programs.

 

 

Schreiber was the only good thing about Origins and somehow could've been introduced by saving Logan but then you risk overtaking Laura's role. Having so many of them Logan, Victor, Laura are very similar. 

X-24 was perfect anthesis of Logan, this was Logan in his prime, uncaged beast killing everybody. Laura was the better future. So confronting him was nicely done. Xander Rice was the sinister one but a bit more developed mor than Pierce.

On 2. 3. 2017 at 1:50 PM, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

I'm of the opinion that FF are a pretty lame bunch of superheroes and its very difficult to do them well,which is why they keep going down different paths each time. I actually in some ways like the hyper campy appeal of the earlier fox FF movies, I just wish they had doubled down on that instead.

They might be lame because of previus failings. They're quite good bunch especially Reed Richards. If the right will go eventually to Marvel and Feige could do it, then I'd think it would be decent. But since they got Namor lined up among others, not sure if FF will be in Phase 4 in mcu.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Wolverine was the Weapon X, the original one. He was one of those who followed Captain America as another enhanced individual. X-Men movies made a mess of it.

 

 

 

I'm aware. That doesn't really change what I was saying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

So I finally saw this. I liked and thought it was very good, almost great. But after all the hype, the great trailer and all the good press I had very high expectations and it didn't manage to live up to them.

Spoiler

 

Logan, Laura and Xavier were great and so were all their scenes together. And I quite liked the bleak future the movie was presenting and it was interesting to see these more depressing depictions of such classical characters. I also kind of liked how they kept the backstory vague and that they didn't outright state exactly what happened to the X-Men and the mutants. Overall It is easily the best Wolverine movie and one of the better movies in the X-Men franchise and a worthy send-off for Wolverine and Hugh Jackman.

But it has a problem that has persisted through all of Wolverine's solo films, the need to cram in a shitty, boring and unimaginative antagonist for the final act. Which in this case was X-24, a character completely devoid of any kind of personality and that only was there so that Wolverine could fight a different version of himself, which has been done numerous other times in the X-Men movies. If they really needed to have a physical threat for Logan to fight they should have just beefed up Donald Pierce, who was an actual character and who I really liked. Instead Pierce and the Reavers were just completely sidelined and felt like an after though in the final act.

The whole third act was a let down compared to what came before and the antagonist just acted completely stupid and didn't come off as very much of threat at all. Why wouldn't they carry any kind of non-lethal weaponry if they wanted to capture the kids alive? Why didn't they carry any weapons that might actually be effective against Laura when they knew how dangerous she could be? Plus we just got more of the same old Wolverine-slaughters-faceless-mooks-stuff that we get in every X-Men movie. And I don't really get what Caliban was doing in the movie.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/16/2017 at 5:56 PM, GallowKnight said:

So I finally saw this. I liked and thought it was very good, almost great. But after all the hype, the great trailer and all the good press I had very high expectations and it didn't manage to live up to them.

  Hide contents

 

Logan, Laura and Xavier were great and so were all their scenes together. And I quite liked the bleak future the movie was presenting and it was interesting to see these more depressing depictions of such classical characters. I also kind of liked how they kept the backstory vague and that they didn't outright state exactly what happened to the X-Men and the mutants. Overall It is easily the best Wolverine movie and one of the better movies in the X-Men franchise and a worthy send-off for Wolverine and Hugh Jackman.

But it has a problem that has persisted through all of Wolverine's solo films, the need to cram in a shitty, boring and unimaginative antagonist for the final act. Which in this case was X-24, a character completely devoid of any kind of personality and that only was there so that Wolverine could fight a different version of himself, which has been done numerous other times in the X-Men movies. If they really needed to have a physical threat for Logan to fight they should have just beefed up Donald Pierce, who was an actual character and who I really liked. Instead Pierce and the Reavers were just completely sidelined and felt like an after though in the final act.

The whole third act was a let down compared to what came before and the antagonist just acted completely stupid and didn't come off as very much of threat at all. Why wouldn't they carry any kind of non-lethal weaponry if they wanted to capture the kids alive? Why didn't they carry any weapons that might actually be effective against Laura when they knew how dangerous she could be? Plus we just got more of the same old Wolverine-slaughters-faceless-mooks-stuff that we get in every X-Men movie. And I don't really get what Caliban was doing in the movie.

 

 

Agreed, comparatively that third act was weaker to the rest of the film.

That Prof. X Death scene was so well done though. Absolutely heartbreaking. (I was gonna say gut-wrenching at first but then thought, nah. No puns.

;) )

And how about what finally kills the great and powerful Wolverine is a piece of wood? Let's run down the Wolverine survival checklist, shall we...

  1. Multiple wars? Check.
  2. Government experiments? Yes.
  3. Psychotic sibling? Mmm hmm.
  4. Ninjas? Bitch please.
  5. Adamantium bullets? I mean, the struggle was real for a while with the memory loss, but Logan is a survivor and not a victim.
  6. Magneto? Yup.
  7. Sentinels? Affirmative.
  8. Phoenix/Dark Phoenix? Piece of cake.
  9. Alternate timelines/time travel? Yup again.
  10. Nuclear explosion? Ain't no thang.
  11. Pointy tree branch? Nope! Sorry, but you lose, Logan. You. Lose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...