Lucailduca Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 That's what I was wondering, when i read about the betrothal between Dickonn Tarly and Eleanor Mooton. Dickon is already the heir to Horn Hill, so when his father dies he will become Lord Tarly. Let's assume that Eleanor, being the eldest daughter, is the heir to Maidenpool (we know she has at least two brothers so for now it's only speculative - they might die though). Could Dickon, once married to her, reclaim two lordships: lord of Horn Hill and Lord of Maidenpool? And then, should he be bannerman to Highgarden or to Harrenhall? I don't recall any similar case: there are houses with cadet branches (Baratheon of King's Landing and Dragonstone; Royce, Frey, Tyrell...) elevated to the same title as the main house, but what about the same man being the lord of two lands - not lord and protector of something, or king, or whatever, but twice lord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Yes, let we not forget that Genna Lannister was seriously worried about Robyn Arryn claiming Riverrun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dariopatke Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 He could pick who he will support ofc. His firstborn son is lord of HH, second is lord of Maidelpool. They will probably live in Reach, but castellan can rule Maidenpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Magpies Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I once played a game of Crusader Kings II as Rhaegar (beginning just prior to Robert's Rebellion) and the son of Hoster Tully and Cersei Lannister(!) briefly united the Riverlands and the Westerlands as heir to both. He was eventually given the boot from the Westerlands by one of the Lannisport Lannisters and was left to lick his wounds in Riverrun with 'just' one high-lordship to his name. Granted, a game (albeit a very detailed one) is somewhat a shaky foundation on which to speculate, but I think something similar would occur in most cases of someone holding two lordships not traditionally connected. Unless the lands bordered one another and therefore could be easily governed by one man, the lord in question would find his priorities and resources stretched too thin. Either he would be overthrown from one lordship or diplomatically forced to cede it to a more suitable candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtree Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Tommen is both king and lord of storm's end so i guess that's possible. Once Cersei died he'll probably be lord of CR too, who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neds Secret Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 32 minutes ago, redtree said: Tommen is both king and lord of storm's end so i guess that's possible. Once Cersei died he'll probably be lord of CR too, who knows Isn't Littlefinger lord of Harrenhall and Lord Protector of The Vale or some such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 In real life, a dude sometimes would have several titles and pieces of land to go with them. Say, Henry, King of Navarre, Duke of Albret, Count of Foix, Armagnac, Comminges, Bigorre, Limoges, and Périgord, Viscount of Béarn, Lord of Donezan. In Westeros, though, we almost never see that happening. We almost never (or just never?) meet someone actually being "Lord of X and Y", where Y isn't some meaningless ceremonial fluff ("Lord Marshal of the Mander"), but denotes an actual fiefdom. 40 minutes ago, Neds Secret said: Isn't Littlefinger lord of Harrenhall and Lord Protector of The Vale or some such? Kinda. The protectorship of the Vale is a temporary office, though, until the lord comes of age. A regency by a different name. But yes, Littlefinger is a good example for another reason: he's both Lord of Harrenhal and Lord of That Worthless Piece of Land on the Fingers Nobody Cares About. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Redwyne Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Lord Protector of the Vale means that you are only regent of the vale, nothing more. No lands from this title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucailduca Posted February 24, 2016 Author Share Posted February 24, 2016 Uhm, I don't think Littlefinger qualifies becouse he's granted the title (until he becomes lord of Harrenhall) only out of courtesy, exaclty like Varys. His poor possession on the littlest finger doesn't make him a lord: Ronnet Connington is only a knight and owns a beautiful castle. King doesn't count, since you are lord of everything. Lord protector of something doesn't mean you get lands to rule, as Paxter said.In your examples you only consider the great houses of westeros, that being already overlords or liege lords could simply add the government of another region to their own. So my question could be rephrased: In westeros do we have a lord of X and Y, who for having X is bannerman of A and for having Y is bannerman of - A (not A but B, C, D)? (Someone who is in the same place where Dickon Tarly would eventually find himself to be) If you want an history reference think of the house of Este: they were at the same time dukes of Ferrara (therefore Pope's vassals) and dukes of Modena e Reggio (therefore Emperor's vassals). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I see no reason that a single person can hold two lordships. Lord Peake used to hold three castles in his name until Gormon Peake lost two of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, Lucailduca said: Uhm, I don't think Littlefinger qualifies becouse he's granted the title (until he becomes lord of Harrenhall) only out of courtesy, exaclty like Varys. His poor possession on the littlest finger doesn't make him a lord: Ronnet Connington is only a knight and owns a beautiful castle. Nope, still officially a lord. "Lord Petyr’s father had been the smallest of small lords", according to Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucailduca Posted February 24, 2016 Author Share Posted February 24, 2016 2 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said: Nope, still officially a lord. "Lord Petyr’s father had been the smallest of small lords", according to Tyrion. How can you use "officially" and "according to Tyrion" in the same sentence? In this contest Tyrion doesn't care about titles: he means Petyr's father was almost nothing. Actually he was a knight with a household, so Petyr has not inherited the title of lord from him... Therefore he got it on his own. House Peake is an example I also considered: they managed to exile the Manderleys and acquire their seat. The point is: were they lord of Starpike and lord of Dustonbury and lord of Whitegrove? By the way It seems odd to me that the shield of the house depicts the three castles they owned even if the house is way older than the acquisition of the three seats: form Florys the Fox to Lorimar Peake that won Manderley's castle, what was their symbol? One castle? two castle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 1 minute ago, Lucailduca said: How can you use "officially" and "according to Tyrion" in the same sentence? In this contest Tyrion doesn't care about titles: he means Petyr's father was almost nothing. Actually he was a knight with a household, so Petyr has not inherited the title of lord from him... Therefore he got it on his own. Well, at least I have a quote from the text calling Petyr's father a lord. Find me one contradicting that, then we can talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Founder of House Baelish was a hedge knight orginating from Braavos, who was a sellsword in service of Corbrays. Somehow he was granted lands on the Fingers and old flint tower. His son was the first Baelish who is mentioned to be lord. His wife was named Alayne. This Lord Baelish fought in the War of Ninepenny Kings and befriended Hoster Tully who agreeded to foster his son Petyr at Riverrun. After his father's death, Petyr became Lord and head of the house ('House' included only himself, and his mother if she was still alive.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucailduca Posted February 24, 2016 Author Share Posted February 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said: Find me one contradicting that, then we can talk. If you want, here you might find all the information I think can prove my point. The quotes used are (evidently) from Sansa. About the house: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Baelish#cite_note-Rasos68.7B.7B.7B3.7D.7D.7D-1 About Littlefinger's grandfather and father (ser, not lord): http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Baelish_%28hedge_knight%29 Now, shall we talk about the question I asked please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Sorry, I made mistake. Sellsword Baelish from Braavos was great-grandfather who came to Vale is service of Corbrays, his son was hedge knight who gained some lands and his son fist mentioned Lird Baelish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Find me one contradicting that, then we can talk. If you want, here you might find all the information I think can prove my point. The quotes used are (evidently) from Sansa. About the house: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Baelish#cite_note-Rasos68.7B.7B.7B3.7D.7D.7D-1 About Littlefinger's grandfather and father (ser, not lord): http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Baelish_%28hedge_knight%29 Now, shall we talk about the question I asked please? His great - grandfather is sellsword from Braavos. His grandfather is hedge knight who gained lands. His father was first mentioned Lord Baelish (by Tywin Lannister) Petyr Baelish is Lord of 'Drearfort', Master of Coin and Lord of Harrenhal. He is also Lord Paramount of the Trident and Lord Protector of the Vale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said: Sorry, I made mistake. Sellsword Baelish from Braavos was great-grandfather who came to Vale is service of Corbrays, his son was hedge knight who gained some lands and his son fist mentioned Lird Baelish. Yup, sounds right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyoftheNorth72 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 If the war hadn't happened and Edmure had died without issue, Robb would have been heir to both Riverrun and Winterfell. That's the best postulate I can think of right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Gormon Peake was Lord of Duntstonebury, Lord of Whitegrove and Lord of Starpike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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