New GRRM interview and a TWOW hint

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, awearyman said:

I don't think he's doing it to spite the show at all. However, a part of me wonders how organic anything is at this point being that there is a show. If there was no show, we would not even be having this conversation. I'm not bothered by it. I think it's interesting. How can one not be influenced by the situation. It's fascinating. I'm sure that GRRM has rewritten and rewritten again and again, tossing scenarios this way and that, but now that the show can, in some ways, do that for him... perhaps it will stimulate more productivity? 

Here's the article where Martin first talked about this twist:

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/03/george-rr-martin-winds-date

 

In one intriguing new wrinkle, Martin says he just came up with a big, revealing twist on a long-time character that he never previously considered. “This is going to drive your readers crazy,” he teases, “but I love it. I’m still weighing whether to go that direction or not. It’s a great twist. It’s easy to do things that are shocking or unexpected, but they have to grow out of characters. They have to grow out of situations. Otherwise, it’s just being shocking for being shocking. But this is something that seems very organic and natural, and I could see how it would happen. And with the various three, four characters involved… it all makes sense. But it’s nothing I’ve ever thought of before. And it’s nothing they can do in the show, because the show has already—on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it, where in my case I have not made those decisions.”

[kissdbyfire]

3 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Yep, and that's where it has all gone spectacularly wrong for him.

Wrong? For him? I'm not so sure. Readers are eagerly awaiting the book, and I'm sure he would have liked to have it out by now (he said so himself). But apart from that I don't really see how anything' gone wrong for him. 

[Ser Gareth]

3 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Here's the article where Martin first talked about this twist:

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/03/george-rr-martin-winds-date

 

In one intriguing new wrinkle, Martin says he just came up with a big, revealing twist on a long-time character that he never previously considered. “This is going to drive your readers crazy,” he teases, “but I love it. I’m still weighing whether to go that direction or not. It’s a great twist. It’s easy to do things that are shocking or unexpected, but they have to grow out of characters. They have to grow out of situations. Otherwise, it’s just being shocking for being shocking. But this is something that seems very organic and natural, and I could see how it would happen. And with the various three, four characters involved… it all makes sense. But it’s nothing I’ve ever thought of before. And it’s nothing they can do in the show, because the show has already—on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it, where in my case I have not made those decisions.”

GRRM would know what's coming in the show.  Now he is saying that character is dead (unless he is creating multiple twists for as many characters as possible with the aim of screwing over the show which I think is very plausible) but he probably knew that when he originally made the statement but didn't want to reveal it so bluntly.

He states it's a long time character so I don't think it can be a minor player.  And it's likely to be someone who appeared for the first time in AGOT or ACOK and has then featured in later novels too.  If it's a revealing twist I'd say it has to be an older character.  My money is on Mance.

[Ser Gareth]

7 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Wrong? For him? I'm not so sure. Readers are eagerly awaiting the book, and I'm sure he would have liked to have it out by now (he said so himself). But apart from that I don't really see how anything' gone wrong for him. 

I guess it is true whether it depends on his motivations.  If all he was after was fame and fortune you're spot on.  He has achieved his goal.

But the TV Show will steal his thunder and glory on the entire series and there won't be many people interested in ADOS.

[kissdbyfire]

6 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

GRRM would know what's coming in the show.  Now he is saying that character is dead (unless he is creating multiple twists for as many characters as possible with the aim of screwing over the show which I think is very plausible) but he probably knew that when he originally made the statement but didn't want to reveal it so bluntly.

He states it's a long time character so I don't think it can be a minor player.  And it's likely to be someone who appeared for the first time in AGOT or ACOK and has then featured in later novels too.  If it's a revealing twist I'd say it has to be an older character.  My money is on Mance.

The first paragraph, yeah, he knew the character in question was going to die in series 5 when he gave that interview but we didn't. That's why back then he didn't say anything about the twist involving a character the show had killed off but was alive in the books. Now that we've seen s 5 he can talk about it a bit more freely. 

Second paragraph, I think Mance is a very likely possibility. 

[kissdbyfire]

11 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

I guess it is true whether it depends on his motivations.  If all he was after was fame and fortune you're spot on.  He has achieved his goal.

But the TV Show will steal his thunder and glory on the entire series and there won't be many people interested in ADOS.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean he was after fame and fortune. Like, not at all. In my opinion, its the opposite actually. The books will remain, forever. I don't care if it takes him 10 more years to write ADoS. The show will eventually be judged on its own merits (!), and take its place among all the shows that had great promise but jumped the shark (to me it already did, couple of series ago). 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

25 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

I guess it is true whether it depends on his motivations.  If all he was after was fame and fortune you're spot on.  He has achieved his goal.

But the TV Show will steal his thunder and glory on the entire series and there won't be many people interested in ADOS.

If all I cared about was the ending then I would've given up on the books a long time ago. It's the journey not the destination.

 

Just cause people might know where it all leads to in the end doesn't make the books less and the show if anything made books way more popular than ever before. Pros and cons.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

1 hour ago, Tijgy said:

And from the others one is dead, one is still on an island and the other one is in the Vale near a Mad Mouse, a psychopath, a possible jealous friend, a clinging robin (and hopefully a Dog ) who is still married to a Lannister. 

I think it is too much soon to say he would not be a "claimant" (and I did mention he was in a cave) if there would a discussion about it. 

And if those lords who discuss which Stark would be the Stark, I just hope they will decide it with a wrestling match. That would be funny (like how Rodrik Stark wrestled for Bear Island)

Jon would win too easily unless Bran wargs Hodor.

A better match would be using the wolves to fight to the death. Sansa doesn't have a wolf so she sends in a bare-fist Hound instead.

[kimim]

9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

The books will remain, forever. I don't care if it takes him 10 more years to write ADoS. The show will eventually be judged on its own merits (!), and take its place among all the shows that had great promise but jumped the shark (to me it already did, couple of series ago). 

Very few things we're likely to say on this forum are objective. This is objective: We can't predict right now what will or won't be remembered. I think the show's "jumping the shark" is an opinion you are, of course, allowed to have, but I would disagree pretty strongly. My own take is that the novel, not the show, ran into difficulties in the last two volumes as GRRM didn't know where to take the story after the war of the five kings ended. As a result, he went into full-time gardening-delaying mode, which stopped most plot progression. I feel as if I'm still waiting for the follow up to Storm of Swords. That problem is evident in the show, which had to deal with an unfinished series where the last two finished volumes achieve little. I feel for the show, as they're in an impossible position. I feel for GRRM, too, and hope that he returns to form with Winds.  

 

 

[kissdbyfire]

2 minutes ago, kimim said:

Very few things we're likely to say on this forum are objective. This is objective: We can't predict right now what will or won't be remembered. I think the show's "jumping the shark" is an opinion you are, of course, allowed to have, but I would disagree pretty strongly. My own take is that the novel, not the show, ran into difficulties in the last two volumes as GRRM didn't know where to take the story after the war of the five kings ended. As a result, he went into full-time gardening-delaying mode, which stopped most plot progression. I feel as if I'm still waiting for the follow up to Storm of Swords. That problem is evident in the show, which had to deal with an unfinished series where the last two finished volumes achieve little. I feel for the show, as they're in an impossible position. I feel for GRRM, too, and hope that he returns to form with Winds.  

 

 

You're right, of course, I apologise. I should have added that that's just my opinion. 

[Carey Snow]

1 hour ago, Ser Gareth said:

He may not have said it but his original comments on the subject were very much a veiled dig at the show.  So much so that I think he has, and will continue to, gone out of his way to rethink a characters story arc to ensure that the show can't run with that story.

What concerns me most is that he has this revelation about a character and thought of a twist he had never conceived before this late into writing the book.  He really doesn't seem to have a clue about how he is going wrap up this series.

He just confirmed, he was considering the twist at least a year ago. Plus the twist could be happening during the end of the book.

[kimim]

37 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

You're right, of course, I apologise. I should have added that that's just my opinion. 

Aw that's sweet! You might be totally right too, lol!

[kissdbyfire]

1 minute ago, kimim said:

Aw that's sweet! You might be totally right too, lol!

Hehe, the proverbial 'time will tell'!

[Shuvuuia]

10 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Here's the article where Martin first talked about this twist:

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/03/george-rr-martin-winds-date

 

In one intriguing new wrinkle, Martin says he just came up with a big, revealing twist on a long-time character that he never previously considered. “This is going to drive your readers crazy,” he teases, “but I love it. I’m still weighing whether to go that direction or not. It’s a great twist. It’s easy to do things that are shocking or unexpected, but they have to grow out of characters. They have to grow out of situations. Otherwise, it’s just being shocking for being shocking. But this is something that seems very organic and natural, and I could see how it would happen. And with the various three, four characters involved… it all makes sense. But it’s nothing I’ve ever thought of before. And it’s nothing they can do in the show, because the show has already—on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it, where in my case I have not made those decisions.”

After that first article, I wondered if it could be a twist about a character's past (hence "revealing" twist), not about what happens to them in the new books (like, for example if Stannis really didn't know about the first shadowbaby or something from Barristan's past) but the new quote seem to specify that the death is what prevents the show from doing it.

[Beorn Snow]

There are already huge twists that have been published that the show precludes.

 

F.x. Mance Rayder being alive, trying to save a fake Arya.

My guess is the twist takes place in the Vale, it´s a twisty area.

 

On top of that we have an entire invasion not included in the show. There is no way to guess since there are so many characters in play. 

[SevasTra82]

12 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

What concerns me most is that he has this revelation about a character and thought of a twist he had never conceived before this late into writing the book.  He really doesn't seem to have a clue about how he is going wrap up this series.

This actually happens a lot more then people realize with Authors.  Stories usually grow as they are written and new ideas are always formed as the process is going forward.  Authors change their minds all the time as they are writing...it's very hard to find an author who writes a complete outline and follows it to a "T" throughout the writing process of a series.

[RedShirt47]

12 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

I guess it is true whether it depends on his motivations.  If all he was after was fame and fortune you're spot on.  He has achieved his goal.

But the TV Show will steal his thunder and glory on the entire series and there won't be many people interested in ADOS.

I would wager that vastly more people will read ADOS now than had the show never existed. How many millions of readers has the show brought to this series of books? I am one of them, I read the books after seeing the first two seasons. I would think that most people who've invested the time into reading the first five or six (rather large) books will want to see it through and finish the series. Especially as the show can't tell many stories from the books, such as Aegon, Littlefinger and The Vale, Stannis et al.

I doubt there are any on these forums who would decide not to read ADOS simply because a version of the story has already been told.

[Ser Jampot]

Why is GRRM telling us about upcoming twists.........because the show is gonna ruin everything else? Hmmmm.

Not sure how I feel about all this, he's now having to sell 'new super twists' because the show adaptation is surging ahead cutting his original story to simplified bits....

[Banana Beyond the Wall]

Mance is Rheagar can be the twist. And the twist will probably be towards the end of the book, so we'll have a ton of suspense while reading.

[Faceless Man Friday]

On 2/25/2016 at 8:51 PM, Bob Sacamano said:

Barristan?? Switching to fAegon??

That would be a great twist.