Small Questions v. 10105

[Little Scribe of Naath]

2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Is Sam teaching birds, or are they arriving for other reasons and speaking?

First we have this...

• The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Dawn Age

  According to Barth, this higher mystery was taught to the First Men by the children so that ravens could spread messages at a great distance. It was passed, in degraded form, down to the maesters today, who no longer know how to speak to the birds. It is true that our order understands the speech of ravens...but this means the basic purposes of their cawing and rasping, their signs of fear and anger, and the means by which they display their readiness to mate or their lack of health.
  Ravens are amongst the cleverest of birds, but they are no wiser than infant children, and considerably less capable of true speech, whatever Septon Barth might have believed. A few maesters, devoted to the link of Valyrian steel, have argued that Barth was correct, but not a one has been able to prove his claims regarding speech between men and ravens.

And then we have these...

• A Storm of Swords - Samwell IV

He could hear the birds quorking in the rookery, so he put the papers away and climbed the steps to feed them. Three more ravens had come in, he saw with pleasure. "Snow," they cried at him. "Snow, snow, snow." He [Sam] had taught them that. Even with the newcomers, the ravenry seemed dismally empty. Few of the birds that Aemon had sent off had returned as yet... yadda yadda yadda...

• A Feast for Crows - Samwell I

  "Snow," a raven muttered. "Snow," another echoed. All of them picked it up then. "Snow, snow, snow, snow, snow." Sam had taught them that word. There was no help here, he saw. Maester Aemon was as trapped as he was. He will die at sea, he thought, despairing. He is too old to survive such a voyage. Gilly's little son may die as well, he's not as large and strong as Dalla's boy. Does Jon mean to kill us all?
   

This is a great question. Maybe Bloodraven warging them? 

 

[The Fattest Leech]

1 minute ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

This is a great question. Maybe Bloodraven warging them? 

I was thinking about that possibility as well, but then considered maybe, just maybe, Sam has some real talents starting to show???

[Little Scribe of Naath]

2 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I was thinking about that possibility as well, but then considered maybe, just maybe, Sam has some real talents starting to show???

I was thinking along these lines...BR only started speaking through the ravens because Sam was "teaching" them...if he spoke without them being taught how to, maybe it would raise suspicion that the crow is possibly being warged?

On the Wall they know about wargs after all.

Or it could be that Sam has some special abilities as well.

[The Wondering Wolf]

23 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

Cersei in AFFC Jaime II: "Redwyne is Tyrell's bannerman, and nephew to that hideous grandmother of his."

Thanks.

[FearlessBoggart]

If one good swordsman can hold a hundred men fighting down on a spiral staircase, how come at the Tower of Joy, the Kingsguard fought outside? I mean, it's not unrealistic that the Tower of Joy had a spiral staircase, so the three Kingsguard could have easily defeated Ned and his companions.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

18 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

 Check out the calculation tabs here

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_uNZmcJaTddG9BVU5tRnJJTE5KcE5JRkFha1ZfNUE#gid=8

Great! Thank you!

[Lord Wraith]

11 hours ago, FearlessBoggart said:

If one good swordsman can hold a hundred men fighting down on a spiral staircase, how come at the Tower of Joy, the Kingsguard fought outside? I mean, it's not unrealistic that the Tower of Joy had a spiral staircase, so the three Kingsguard could have easily defeated Ned and his companions.

One of the many mysteries of the TOJ.

[Tucu]

18 hours ago, FearlessBoggart said:

If one good swordsman can hold a hundred men fighting down on a spiral staircase, how come at the Tower of Joy, the Kingsguard fought outside? I mean, it's not unrealistic that the Tower of Joy had a spiral staircase, so the three Kingsguard could have easily defeated Ned and his companions.

Only sensible explanation I can imagine is: they were afraid that Ned's army would arrive soon and a quick fight was their only chance of escape.

[Ckram]

@Tucu

As Ned recalls, they were not looking for a chance to escape:

"Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him."

"Ser Willem is a good man and true," said Ser Oswell.

"But not of the Kingsguard," Ser Gerold pointed out. "The Kingsguard does not flee."

"Then or now," said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.

[RumHam]

On 8/13/2016 at 5:02 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Where is it stated when Aegon I converted to the Faith of the Seven?

I know I asked Ran about this in the Worldbook errors thread. I hate the search on this new forum I can't find it. There's a SSM where Martin says Aegon converted as a political maneuver, but Ran (and the worldbook) claim that is not true. That his ancestors did and this was essentially revealed back in Clash when Davos mentioned the ship's masts being converted to idols. 

On 8/20/2016 at 1:19 PM, FearlessBoggart said:

If one good swordsman can hold a hundred men fighting down on a spiral staircase, how come at the Tower of Joy, the Kingsguard fought outside? I mean, it's not unrealistic that the Tower of Joy had a spiral staircase, so the three Kingsguard could have easily defeated Ned and his companions.

One possibility that hasn't been mentioned: they knew it was over and after several frustrating months of sitting in that lonely tower while the war raged on without them, they wanted to go out fighting. I think a noble death in battle easily could have seemed preferable to a life in exile following Viserys around. 

Or alternatively they left the tower hoping to talk to Ned and resolve things, but it then became apparent that neither side would compromise despite the uh...unique circumstances. So they fought. 

[Tucu]

2 hours ago, Ckram said:

@Tucu

As Ned recalls, they were not looking for a chance to escape:

"Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him."

"Ser Willem is a good man and true," said Ser Oswell.

"But not of the Kingsguard," Ser Gerold pointed out. "The Kingsguard does not flee."

"Then or now," said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.

I am assuming that escaping an overwhelming force with the people they are protecting is not the same as fleeing

[Ckram]

@Tucu

Isn't that what they just called what Darry did with Rhaella and Viserys?

I don't call it fleeing, but the three kingsguards seemed to do.

 

[Maester of Valyria]

3 hours ago, Ckram said:

@Tucu

As Ned recalls, they were not looking for a chance to escape:

"Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him."

"Ser Willem is a good man and true," said Ser Oswell.

"But not of the Kingsguard," Ser Gerold pointed out. "The Kingsguard does not flee."

"Then or now," said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.

They may have been waiting for Lyanna to give birth before moving on: it would hardly be practical to escape with a woman in labour to protect.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

I know I asked Ran about this in the Worldbook errors thread. I hate the search on this new forum I can't find it. There's a SSM where Martin says Aegon converted as a political maneuver, but Ran (and the worldbook) claim that is not true. That his ancestors did and this was essentially revealed back in Clash when Davos mentioned the ship's masts being converted to idols. 

I had been hoping that you'd recall the post, but the description you gave was already enough to find it  Thank you!

(Here's the link)

I can't find the quote in the World Book, though.. Is there a quote in TWOIAF?

[Ckram]

@Maester of Valyria

It's something that could hold me, if I was in their place.

However, reading the dialogue, that didn't seem to be what was holding them.

[Tucu]

45 minutes ago, Ckram said:

@Tucu

Isn't that what they just called what Darry did with Rhaella and Viserys?

I don't call it fleeing, but the three kingsguards seemed to do.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Ckram said:

@Maester of Valyria

It's something that could hold me, if I was in their place.

However, reading the dialogue, that didn't seem to be what was holding them.

They were not revealing their plans to Ned, just telling him that they were not surrendering or fleeing at that point. Blocking the door and awaiting a siege was not a viable option.

[Ckram]

@Tucu

It's a possibility.

"And yet it moves".

[RumHam]

51 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

I had been hoping that you'd recall the post, but the description you gave was already enough to find it  Thank you!

(Here's the link)

I can't find the quote in the World Book, though.. Is there a quote in TWOIAF?

I went back through the thread, and apparently the worldbook just mentions Aegon supposedly praying before the invasion. So no I don't think there is a quote in there about the Targaryen's conversion. The only source for this in the books seems to be Davos talking about the ship masts. 

[Anton Martell]

2 hours ago, Maester of Valyria said:

They may have been waiting for Lyanna to give birth before moving on: it would hardly be practical to escape with a woman in labour to protect.

I think they wanted to fight outside to avoid stress to Lyanna maybe? They probably felt like they could kill Ned and his companions easily, and the further away from the pregnant lady, the better, no?

[Jon Fossoway]

I was looking at planetos map, and it came to my attention (probably way later than everybody) that Ulos, the furthermost eastern island, has an unnamed city on it. If I saw correctly, that's the only unnamed city in the whole map. Was this intentional? If so, are there any theories, or references in the books about this?